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Old 08-27-2015, 08:59 PM   #15
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I wouldn't put too much weight into resale values. Just pick the one you like and buy it...
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Old 08-27-2015, 09:04 PM   #16
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XLR, Tesla, or Grand Designs Momentum

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I wouldn't put too much weight into resale values. Just pick the one you like and buy it...

It's definitely not a deciding factor but thought it was interesting the Momentums were much less value according to NADA. I figured it was just because they are pretty new. There are hardly any used ones for sale though. I've not found any used newer model 2015 385's on the market.

I priced out a new 2016 at Couch's. Very neat web site that gives you an automatic, no haggling, great price. I've already told the guy in Dallas if he can't beat it I won't buy from him. He has his 2015 priced the same as an equivalent optioned 2016 at Couch's. Of course I got the whole "you'd have to take a week off work and all the diesel" speech. Delivery was $1800 to Texas so I'd still be thousands better off if I decided to not drive and get it. I could also have it delivered to Tennessee and pick it up there whenever I chose since all of my family is there.
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Old 08-30-2015, 03:12 PM   #17
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Couch's website does make it very easy. We also actually enjoyed the trip out to get ours. We drove straight through on the way out and stayed at the local Hampton Inn who gave us a good rate due to our deal with Couch's. Then Couch's allowed us to sleep over on their lot while we put all systems through their paces. Then we could have them address any issues we found before departing in the AM. They even hooked us up to water and 50 amp electric. To us, we made an adventure out of picking up in OH. We stopped half way home and slept in the rig again. It was like a mini camping trip. Our local dealer also tried the whole long trip/diesel cost thing. Well, if I didn't like long trips and minded diesel costs, I wouldn't be into RVing in the first place...
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Old 08-31-2015, 06:47 PM   #18
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Yes, it's the same person. Are you saying they totally kicked you off the forum? If so, that's pure BS. You said nothing bad at all, just your experience and it wasn't like you were even talking bad about them. Sorry they did that but it'll just hurt them in the future if they won't allow both good and bad reviews. That's how a company improves; they listen to all customers and take the good and bad and learn from it.

I had a feeling right from the beginning it was a tightly controlled forum. Too much cheerleading and no negative comments at all and if there were any negative comments they were quickly squashed.
C-130 just a update on my GD ac issue.

Only after forwarding your reply to GD did I get any response.

I got a email today after almost 4 weeks from GD and Chris who is front man running Grand Design Owners Forum, AC will be paid for and membership will be refunded.
They did make it clear I am on my own from here out and Chris has made it clear non GD cheerleader types are not welcome at his or the Grand Design Owners Forum web site.
I think the real lesson for me and I hope others is don't put a lot of stock in some web sites. I have been a user of this sight for many years just had a few computer changes over the years and lost my logins and passwords.
My big mistake was thinking that GD web site was unbiased info like this one. Looking back I can see the pattern of negative posters being discouraged, in fact in the early days of Grand Design ownership I probably did it my self.
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:44 PM   #19
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I'm personally not impressed with the Grand Design toy haulers or 5th wheels. Several I've been in were lacking. Door inserts that rattle when the door closes, leaks from the Kant leak system, dings and dents on new interiors primarily around the door areas. Plus no suspension upgrade, no residential fridge upgrade, no partial paint or full paint, etc. It's in the same range as all the other Lippert quality component RV's.
Not saying its worse than others but I don't see the quality owners rave about. We have a real Carrilite-2009, we haven't found a toyhauler that has the quality we want besides the DRV FullHouse
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:30 PM   #20
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I have an XLR. If I was buying again, I'd probably by the XLR again. Still, my 2+ years of ownership has not been trouble free.

The China Bomb tires were bought back by the North American distributor after one blew up and another was showing signs of coming apart at the 5000 mile 14 month mark. I had to fix the fender damage to my trailer.

I also had an issue with a spring hanger. The hanger on the passenger rear was being ripped off the frame. The issue seemed to be the small piece of channel that Lippert used between the hanger and the I-beam (pot metal from China). Lippert was ready to send one of their techs to repair my trailer. I was concerned that he would just repair the one corner, and not do anything about the other attachment points. I wanted my dealer to do the work, and to strengthen the entire frame where the springs and wheels were attached. Lippert agreed to pay half of my repair bill up to $900 (their cost of sending a tech to my dealer). As it turned out, the work cost ~$1560. I was happy with the solution and the "buy-in" by Lippert.

Earlier this spring, during month 28 of ownership, my ramp door showed signs of failing at the hinge. This is another Lippert component. When I spoke to Lippert customer service, and provided pictures of the door, including how one of the outside rails had not been properly glued to the door sandwich, Lippert agreed to replace my door. They paid all of the parts and labor.

Lippert has great customer service, but I wish I hadn't had the problems.

What I saw when I was looking for toyhaulers is that they all use the same accessories and components.

What I found out about warranty issues is that XLR (Forest River) only provides a warranty on the parts of the trailer THEY made. The AC manufacturer warranties the AC, the frame manufacturer warranties the frame, the tire manufacture warranties the tires, etc. I think this way of handling warranties is the standard in the industry.

All of my trouble were outside the one year of warranty that XLR provides. I view it as a positive for the RV industry that I have been able to get help from product manufacturer.

Tire explosion


Spring hanger


spring hanger repair


ramp door pic
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Old 09-10-2015, 08:29 PM   #21
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My big mistake was thinking that GD web site was unbiased info like this one. Looking back I can see the pattern of negative posters being discouraged, in fact in the early days of Grand Design ownership I probably did it my self.
They're not the only brand specific forum that doesn't really approve of negative publicity on the brand. Many people on the Keystone forum have indicated that internet reports (and social media) comments and photos about problems with Keystone are outright fabrications and agenda...

I understand it a bit if it's the mother company controlling the website... But one of the first things I look for isn't for number of consumer complaints, but it's HOW the company responds to consumers that complain. Hiding complaints, suppressing them, etc - not a good sign. I'd expect more transparency from GD.
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Old 09-10-2015, 08:34 PM   #22
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What I found out about warranty issues is that XLR (Forest River) only provides a warranty on the parts of the trailer THEY made. The AC manufacturer warranties the AC, the frame manufacturer warranties the frame, the tire manufacture warranties the tires, etc. I think this way of handling warranties is the standard in the industry.

Seems to be par for the course, although I suspect you could push back on this in some states. Roof problem? Contact the manufacturer of the roof material, they blame the sealant manufacturer, they blame the glue used to install the roofing... No responsibility in some cases.

I've had good luck with some part suppliers. Dexter and Lippert answer email and are pretty good about troubleshooting. Lighting manufacturer that replaced an entire batch of bad LED lighting (20 lights) - not even asking for a receipt, where as Keystone would only replace them 1 at a time as they failed...

They keep getting sold, so no real motivation to change behavior. It's a problem that is probably going to require legislation - and I'm no fan of that...
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