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Old 08-26-2015, 08:10 AM   #1
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XLR, Tesla, or Grand Designs Momentum

I recently sold my Fuzion Touring Edition toy hauler and we are in the market for another one. I had planned on getting the Mometum 385TH, thought it was pretty much a done deal as far as the brand and model. But, I can't work out a deal with my local dealer so my wife and I went and looked again at most all of the toy haulers we might be interested in.

We were very happy with our Fuzion and it was trouble free, no issues at all. But, we want the wood floor look and hate the flooring of the Fuzion's so they are out. The three choices are the Momentum 385TH, Tesla, and the XLR. Opinions, plus and minuses of all of them? I'm not thrilled that the Momentum's d-rings are not bolted or welded to the frame. They use self tapping screws and some screws apparently missed or partially missed the frame causing a few issues. They are nice toy haulers and seem to be built very well but I don't get the d-ring attachment method. All three have floor plans we like and all three have their pluses and minuses. I'm trying to figure out the differences in build quality, customer service, so any knowledge appreciated. I know the dealer means a lot as far as how warranty issues are handled but want to know more about corporate support.

As we all know each brand specific forum seems to be biased to what they own so I'd prefer some unbiased opinions but welcome owner experiences of all three of them. I think Grand Designs initially marketed themselves as "different" with outstanding customer service and support but as they grow I see that diminishing from what I've read. I think it sounds great but as they grow it'll be about impossible to maintain their one on one support in this competitive market. I emailed them with a few questions and have yet to hear back. I was told they were very different and easy to communicate with but I haven't found that to exactly be the case. This isn't meant to be a negative remark, just reality as they grow and they become more like the other manufacturers.
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:35 AM   #2
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I chose XLR for a few reasons. Large dealer network to price shop. Custom full body paint option. Their willingness to do off list options. The bottom line is all three are built with the same components. They are all low production units so they will all have about the same build quality. Service after the sale will be your big deciding factor. You have read my posts so you know my experience with XLR has been outstanding. They also have the largest dealer network of the three so you will have the easiest time getting a competitive price. If you must buy local, I would get a quote from one of the large internet dealers like Couch's or RV Wholesalers and bring it to your local dealer. Ask them to get within a few thousand of said quote. Mine wouldn't get any closer than $9500 more than Couch's so I drove the 800 miles to OH and saved some major money.

All that said, find the floorplan you like the best and go for it. You can't go wrong with any of the three options. For me, XLR had the best floorplan with the most standards and options at the best price. YMMV.
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:06 AM   #3
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I think it's between the Momentum and the XLR, just not enough Tesla's around and lack of dealerships. There are two XLR's we really like but need to see them in person to decide on which one we prefer. Local dealer doesn't have them so we will be taking a road trip soon.

One interesting fact I'm looking at is the XLR has a much higher resale value according to NADA, about $10,000 it appears. That's a pretty big deal to me as they are priced about the same to start with and I see better days on the XLR.
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:22 AM   #4
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Just shop online...you'll be very surprised at what you can save....and you'll find some good dealers that will do other things for you to sell their unit off their lot (like install a residential fridge for you at cost) Otherwise like taken was saying you can order what you want. But there are a few dealers giving some deep...deep discounts. Funtown RV, Lamesa RV, Guaranty RV, and of course the Camping Worlds...but CW's can vary depending on the GM at that particular location. Good Luck
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:22 AM   #5
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Interesting on the resale. Never thought about that. If there is ANYTHING you want that isn't a standard or option on the XLR, ask your dealer. It can likely be ordered as an "off list" option. If your dealer doesn't want to do this or doesn't know how, drop me a line. I've got a contact at XLR who can make it happen if at all possible.

As to discount, we got about 37% off and that was on a special order. Sometimes you can do better if a dealer wants something off his lot like Dave said. However, we are very fussy about a purchase this size and wanted everything exactly how we liked so ordering was the only route for us.
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Old 08-26-2015, 03:59 PM   #6
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I had not considered resale value at all and was pretty much sold on the Momentum. But, I wanted to look at most everything that was available and found there are three that we liked. All three had decent reviews and like all RV's they had their share of complaints on the the internet. Thought I'd look at the resale and was surprised at the Momentum. There are very few used ones on the market so not sure what they are really selling for used or actual trade in value comparison. From my limited experience though 20% below low retail is pretty close to trade in value, making the Momentum have a very large depreciation. It may not matter to most but definitely a consideration for me.
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Old 08-26-2015, 06:03 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by C130 View Post
I recently sold my Fuzion Touring Edition toy hauler and we are in the market for another one. I had planned on getting the Mometum 385TH, thought it was pretty much a done deal as far as the brand and model. But, I can't work out a deal with my local dealer so my wife and I went and looked again at most all of the toy haulers we might be interested in.

We were very happy with our Fuzion and it was trouble free, no issues at all. But, we want the wood floor look and hate the flooring of the Fuzion's so they are out. The three choices are the Momentum 385TH, Tesla, and the XLR. Opinions, plus and minuses of all of them? I'm not thrilled that the Momentum's d-rings are not bolted or welded to the frame. They use self tapping screws and some screws apparently missed or partially missed the frame causing a few issues. They are nice toy haulers and seem to be built very well but I don't get the d-ring attachment method. All three have floor plans we like and all three have their pluses and minuses. I'm trying to figure out the differences in build quality, customer service, so any knowledge appreciated. I know the dealer means a lot as far as how warranty issues are handled but want to know more about corporate support.

As we all know each brand specific forum seems to be biased to what they own so I'd prefer some unbiased opinions but welcome owner experiences of all three of them. I think Grand Designs initially marketed themselves as "different" with outstanding customer service and support but as they grow I see that diminishing from what I've read. I think it sounds great but as they grow it'll be about impossible to maintain their one on one support in this competitive market. I emailed them with a few questions and have yet to hear back. I was told they were very different and easy to communicate with but I haven't found that to exactly be the case. This isn't meant to be a negative remark, just reality as they grow and they become more like the other manufacturers.
I think we discussed D ring issue along with AC problem last night on GD website. They deleted my paid for membership because I answered your questions honestly. Let me know if this is same guy.
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Old 08-26-2015, 06:23 PM   #8
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I just wanted to add no hard feelings about being kicked off of GD web site. You probably did me a favor. I did not really understand how tightly GD has control on this web sight.
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Old 08-26-2015, 08:09 PM   #9
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I just wanted to add no hard feelings about being kicked off of GD web site. You probably did me a favor. I did not really understand how tightly GD has control on this web sight.
Yes, it's the same person. Are you saying they totally kicked you off the forum? If so, that's pure BS. You said nothing bad at all, just your experience and it wasn't like you were even talking bad about them. Sorry they did that but it'll just hurt them in the future if they won't allow both good and bad reviews. That's how a company improves; they listen to all customers and take the good and bad and learn from it.

I had a feeling right from the beginning it was a tightly controlled forum. Too much cheerleading and no negative comments at all and if there were any negative comments they were quickly squashed.
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Old 08-27-2015, 08:39 AM   #10
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Yes banished for life along with a threatening note that if I re-registered they would contact my IP provider. It was kind of a shock to me. Probably naive of me but I still believe in our country , freedom of speech kind of things.
If you end up getting a GD and hope to get any warranty at all be prepared to be a voracious cheerleader on line for them. Those who have a large online presence and go to GD rally's get very good service.
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:43 PM   #11
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What are the defects of GD? I'm following the GD forum because we are interested in the 380TH. The floor plan is the closest we can fine to the DRV Fullhouse JK450. It's more of a traditional seating arrangement. But I've read alot of threads, posts, and PM's about them. Most say they have issues because of the Lippert components. Besides the tanks sagging, Kantleak system, axle seals, rusting frames, what else should I be looking for if we decide to buy? PM me if you don't want to air publicly.
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:49 PM   #12
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What are the defects of GD? I'm following the GD forum because we are interested in the 380TH. The floor plan is the closest we can fine to the DRV Fullhouse JK450. It's more of a traditional seating arrangement. But I've read alot of threads, posts, and PM's about them. Most say they have issues because of the Lippert components. Besides the tanks sagging, Kantleak system, axle seals, rusting frames, what else should I be looking for if we decide to buy? PM me if you don't want to air publicly.
If the 380TH was built anything more than 6 months ago, it likely has two 8k axles as opposed to three 7k. This leaves way too much overhang front and back resulting in frame flex. This is causing sidewall, window, and front cap stress fracturing on many units. They are calling these back to the factory to be retrofitted with a third axle and new fender skirts to accommodate. I wouldn't want a brand new retrofitted unit. I'm thinking the newer tri-axles are a safer bet but the dual axle units are still out there for sale so keep an eye out for that.
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Old 08-27-2015, 07:17 PM   #13
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What are the defects of GD? I'm following the GD forum because we are interested in the 380TH. The floor plan is the closest we can fine to the DRV Fullhouse JK450. It's more of a traditional seating arrangement. But I've read alot of threads, posts, and PM's about them. Most say they have issues because of the Lippert components. Besides the tanks sagging, Kantleak system, axle seals, rusting frames, what else should I be looking for if we decide to buy? PM me if you don't want to air publicly.

First is do not believe much from the owners web site. It is highly censored by GD. There are a few very smart experienced posters. But everyone walks carefully around any negative comments about GD.
I made the big mistake of thinking it was for real and bought one. Also show models ( at Hershey and Tampa ) have neat wiring and build quality that production models will not have. GD is a OK rv but build quality is far less than my KZ New Vision Toy Hauler. I would put it equal with a Wildcat entry model I bought 20 years ago.
If you are the hands on type like myself the deeper you get into it the larger your disappointment will be. GD does a great job on initial impression. Great (cabinet drawer slides and hinges type stuff ) real issues come after a few months of ownership.
Claimed outstanding warranty and factory support is almost nothing for stand alone owners. On the positive side if you promote them a lot online or at website you will be OK. Dealers are important to GD and a good one will get a lot more than you can on your own. National RV sell a lot of them only problem is be prepared to pay huge mark up.
At the end of the day I ended up buying a mid-level RV for premium price. I regret my decision and could have saved $25,000 or more on comparable RV. Let me know if you want more info on what will be needed after 6 months of ownership. It is a Lot.
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Old 08-27-2015, 08:35 PM   #14
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XLR, Tesla, or Grand Designs Momentum

Would it be safe to assume that the 2015 triple axle 385's and 380's that have the stainless appliances are the newest models and not the retrofitted? I think the two axle units all had the black appliances and darker bowl sink and also different counter tops.

My wife and I both like the looks of the Momentum but I'm having second thoughts on purchasing one. I definitely will not pay thousands more to own one, especially with the NADA value way less than their competitors. I'd like to know others opinion on the 2014 NADA values. I can only see the 2014 values for some of the competing manufacturers but the 2015 value of a 385 was still less than the XLR and Tesla 2014's. The Tesla shows the highest value by quite a bit.
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