1st TT - need suggestions to narrow down the choices!

[1bigmess]

Originally Posted by MysticalMama

Do you full-time on the road? in and RV park? on land? or a combo? Have you been doing it for months or years? What part of the country?

All of the above. Two years now, with a 65 pound German Shepherd. Mostly West of the Rockies.

I've stayed on public lands, in backyards, in driveways, Walmarts, campgrounds, and RV parks.

Right now I have a job that pays me to travel from place to place doing utility services work. I get $X/week while on a job for living expenses, and a decent hourly wage. I'm working in the Spokane/Idaho panhandle. It's beautiful up here right now.

Feel free to share me more questions.

[RPreeb]

Originally Posted by MysticalMama

Another question:

Since I am starting to look at larger TT (24 - 28 feet) what weight should I be looking at for an F150 V6 Ecoboost?

I started reading another thread (the guy with the 2 adults and 2 11 year olds) and he was advised to go with a bigger truck. I am hoping and assuming that is because of the weight of multiple people and "stuff" (one RV guy told me to estimate 250 lbs per person??)

so, since it is just me and my 2 small dogs, is that why I can get away with a relatively larger TT with a relatively smaller truck?

If I were you, I would try to keep dry weight down to 5000 or less. That would put your traveling weight at ~7000 max (and shoot for less if you can). No matter what the tow rating of your F-150, that is a good limit to shoot for. You don't want to be closer than about 75% of the max tow rating, and you have to be more concerned with the payload on the rear axle than with how much it will actually pull.

My TT has a dry weight of 4219, but maxes out at 5500 (I don't load to more than about 5100, including full fresh water tank). My F-150 has a 1777 payload and more than 10,000 max towing capacity. My combo doesn't push any limits and it tows comfortably using the Husky Centerline TS WDH with 600-800 lb bars.

[MysticalMama]

Originally Posted by RPreeb

If I were you, I would try to keep dry weight down to 5000 or less. That would put your traveling weight at ~7000 max (and shoot for less if you can).

So, which os these weights relate to your advice about dry weight and traveling weight?

Dry Axle Weight (approx. Lbs.): 5375
Dry Hitch Weight (approx. Lbs.): 670
Net Carrying Capacity: 3955
Gross Dry Weight – Lbs.: 6045
Gross Vehicle Weight (GVWR) – Lbs.: 10000

Thanks!!

Peace, Maria B, Bug n Bean

[Parks]

Most people will tell you to be concerned with your GVWR of the trailer when talking trailer weights and how much/heavy to look for.

Also, most people will tell you to buy the trailer you like first then go buy a truck big enough to tow your trailer. However, with your situation and all the details you gave us, it seems like the F150 with the Ecoboost V6 is going to be the best truck for your budget and your situation does not allow for this luxury of trailer first truck second. I don't see any 3/4 ton truck being necessary to tow a trailer that meets your needs from all you have mentioned.

You really need to find the truck that will work best and is within your budget. I don't know enough about the F150 lineup to guide you well enough. Seems the F150s vary greatly in payload and tow capacities. I'd ask in the tow vehicle section what trim levels and options you should be looking at that have the greatest capacities. I would think you can get away with a bit more than the 7k lbs max trailer weight mentioned above, with the right truck.

Here is the conundrum I would be in and you may have to address. You need a truck that can handle the weight of your desired trailer. You should find a trailer that works for your needs. How much insulation for hot and cold temps do you need? Do you want a little bit bigger trailer and a higher end brand with more room and better equipped for full timing? With all this being said, one important spec on the trailer you should at least be aware of is the cargo carrying capacity (CCC). This number is the weight of all contents the trailer can carry/handle. Some trailers have a very low CCC while others have a much higher capacity which may be better to carry ALL your belongings with you.

[RPreeb]

Originally Posted by MysticalMama

So, which os these weights relate to your advice about dry weight and traveling weight?

Dry Axle Weight (approx. Lbs.): 5375
Dry Hitch Weight (approx. Lbs.): 670
Net Carrying Capacity: 3955
Gross Dry Weight – Lbs.: 6045
Gross Vehicle Weight (GVWR) – Lbs.: 10000

Thanks!!

Peace, Maria B, Bug n Bean

With those numbers you could easily end up over your vehicle's payload capacity with almost no actual cargo (15% of 10,000 is 1500 lbs). You said that you are looking at this F-150: "I am on my way to trading in the Pilot for a Ford F150 V6 Ecoboost with a tow rating of 9,700 ( I think)".

You should be able to answer your own question. The truck is rated for 9700 lbs and the trailer specified above tops out at 10,000. Do I need to say any more? You would have to pick a much lighter trailer or a better equipped truck, and likely an F-150 wouldn't get the job done.

The most important number when matching a 1/2 ton truck and any trailer is the cargo capacity of the truck and the gross tongue weight of the trailer. I would always do my tongue weight calculations based on 15% of gross weight, then keep that to no more than 30-40 percent of the truck's payload. That way I'm not going to be surprised when I get a bit a cargo in and find out that I've way overloaded my tow vehicle. If you can't keep your tongue weight around 800 lbs or lower, you can quickly run into payload issues.

My TT has a max weight of 5500 lbs - using 15% the max tongue weight is 825 lbs. My F-150 has a payload of 1777 lbs. That makes my worst case tongue weight 32% of my payload. I still have more than 900 pounds available for passengers (just me and my wife and a 38 lb dog) and the small amount of stuff that I carry in the truck (maybe 200 lbs max). I don't haul firewood or bicycles or any of the stuff that many here do. I still have room to add the planned roof rack and 75# fishing kayak that I will be buying.

And those numbers are the absolute max. As a fairly conservative camper I really don't intend to ever hit those weights.

[Randy the sly old fox]

MM - years ago I came up with a quick formula or litmus test for solving the wt issue. I look at the CGWR of the truck - this is the absolute max the truck and trailer combo can weigh, from that number I subtract the GVWR of the truck - the number left over is the GVWR for the trailer. The reason I chose these numbers is because they are real not to exceed numbers - both TT mfgs and Tow Vehicle Mfgs love to fudge numbers when it comes to Dry Wts and Tow Ratings.

If the numbers are close then start working the details. This formula tends to work best when the Payload numbers are realistic to the rest of the wts. Again, I say this is only a quick test. If you find something in a TT that you really like you can run the numbers with more detail.

[MysticalMama]

Hi again,
I've read all of your replies re: weight and I am still helplessly lost. There is no reason for me to even look at the pictures of a particular TT and get excited if I can't safely and comfortably tow it in the F150. I do plan on some cross country travel at some point.

One of the biggest issues is learning the vocabulary of towing. It is a foreign language to me. I've tried to enlist the help of a local person to sit down with me but I that hasn't happened yet. Some of these I have possibly figured out and some I have not:

So, can you please define:

payload capacity (no idea what a payload is)
gross tongue weight (what is a tongue? Is it the hitch??)
tow rating (F150)
axle weight
dry hitch weight
dry axle weight
net carry capacity
gross dry weight
GVWR -gross vehicle weight (is this the trailer or the truck??) and what is the R???
CGWR (I'd love to use Randy's formula)
CCC (cargo carrying capacity) - is this truck or trailer? is this the same as net carry capacity?
Where do the weights of passengers fit in?

I was reading the thread about the F150 and how many folks ended up going bigger because driving for hours "was exhausting" I do not want to make this same mistake.

Is there a simple "If the trailer GVWR weighs more than _____, it is too heavy for the F150."

Then, what is the whole 70% and 15% stuff about?

If Ford says the tow rating for the F150 is 10,000...aim for the weight of the empty trailer to be 7,000? or 5,000? I've seen both numbers tossed around...

I can do math but I need to understand the vocabulary first!

Peace, Maria B, Bug n Bean

[MysticalMama]

I am going to reply to my own post! I am now reading a post on an F150 owners forum.

This is what I learned: there is a difference between towing and hauling! So the tow rating is a guide (and the advice is to do 60 - 70% of that number, which would be 6500# for the F150)

but then there is the mysterious payload (found on the drivers side door?? - why would this not be the number right next to the max. towing capacity??)

The payload is how much weight you can put IN the truck - so that is me and my dogs and my normal stuff PLUS the trailers tongue weight (are tongue weight and dry hitch weight the same thing?) so the weight of the trailer alone is the GVWR (if I put it on a bathroom scale) but the tongue weight is the extra weight it adds directly to the rear bumper of the truck? And, apparently, that is *usually* between 12-15% of the GVWR of the trailer (so a 7,000# TT would have a tongue weight of approx. 840#)

Now, to find out what the payload capacity is for the F150!

Also, a weight distributing hitch such at the Equal-i-zer was suggested - any opinion on that technology?

Off to work! But Id still love the vocab lesson if someone has the time!

Peace, Maria B, Bug n bean

[Randy the sly old fox]

MM we have all been newbies at some point in time - now we have several tee shirts

CGWR - Combination Gross Weight Rating - This is the maximum total weight for the truck and trailer together.

GVWR - Gross Vehicle Weight Rating applies to either the truck or trailer. I it is the maximum the vehicle can weigh it is also Curb Weight + Payload

Payload = Cargo Carrying Capacity it is the total amount of cargo the truck or trailer can carry. In math terms it is the GVWR- the Curb Weight. Most 1/2 T trucks have a Payload between 1200 and 1800 lbs.

Curb Weight/Dry Weight - the weight of the vehicle without any cargo - sometimes includes a tank of fuel and a 150lb driver. In a trailer it is the weight of the unit with all tanks empty.


GAWR - Gross Axle Weight Rating - the maximum amount of weight that each axle can hold. It can apply to either the truck or the trailer. Axles are axles.

Tongue Weight= Hitch Weight - the amount of the trailer's total wt is on the hitch. This number is usually between 10 and 15% of the trailer's weight.

Tow Rating - this is being revised per the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) to make it so there is some actual testing to determine the real towing capacity of the vehicle. Currently most mfgs use a formula where they take the CGWR and subtract the curb wt of an average truck with a 150lb driver.

Any rating with a Gross in it is not to exceed number also the closer you are to the Gross numbers the harder the vehicle will be working.

I hope this helps

[cruzbill]

Mama, You are doing your research (I won't use the overused 'due diligence') and are learning a lot-good for you! But don't color your anticipation to retirement (glory days in store for you) by trying to nail every piece down first. You will never leave the harbor if you wait until all your boat projects are done.


Please don't take this as snarky, but you just won't find a better made small TT than a 2010-2012 Sunnybrook Harmony 21fbs; I know, cause I looked. There are only 2 on RV Trader right now, and they are not close to you, but....

a small TT is a very small TinyHouse. My wife watches that show, I can't because the builders aren't that smart as they haven't discovered slide outs!

You will have to minimize what you bring with you. We picked up our Harmony in Ohio and then traveled to the east coast, Virginia to Maine and back along the northern tier to N Ca-Never felt crowded, or did we need to carry more stuff. Remember your backpacking days, you can get by with very little, and if you really need something, stop at a local hardware store or (ugh) wally world and buy it.

The rest of your life is ahead of you, start enjoying it now!
end of lecture!! and best of luck to you.

[tbos1958]

MM,
FWIW the payload sticker on the door frame is different for each vehicle even though they are basically the same model with just different options. My sons 4x4 ecoboost F150 has a payload just over 1000 lbs. His truck is loaded with all the bells and whistles. If you buy one that is more basic it should have a larger payload. If you find a TT you really like before you buy the truck you can adjust the truck you buy. If you buy a truck 1st then you need to buy a TT that fits in the numbers. It sounds like you are starting to understand the numbers and the math using them. Good luck.

[RPreeb]

Originally Posted by Randy the sly old fox

MM we have all been newbies at some point in time - now we have several tee shirts

CGWR - Combination Gross Weight Rating - This is the maximum total weight for the truck and trailer together.

GVWR - Gross Vehicle Weight Rating applies to either the truck or trailer. I it is the maximum the vehicle can weigh it is also Curb Weight + Payload

Payload = Cargo Carrying Capacity it is the total amount of cargo the truck or trailer can carry. In math terms it is the GVWR- the Curb Weight. Most 1/2 T trucks have a Payload between 1200 and 1800 lbs.

Curb Weight/Dry Weight - the weight of the vehicle without any cargo - sometimes includes a tank of fuel and a 150lb driver. In a trailer it is the weight of the unit with all tanks empty.


GAWR - Gross Axle Weight Rating - the maximum amount of weight that each axle can hold. It can apply to either the truck or the trailer. Axles are axles.

Tongue Weight= Hitch Weight - the amount of the trailer's total wt is on the hitch. This number is usually between 10 and 15% of the trailer's weight.

Tow Rating - this is being revised per the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) to make it so there is some actual testing to determine the real towing capacity of the vehicle. Currently most mfgs use a formula where they take the CGWR and subtract the curb wt of an average truck with a 150lb driver.

Any rating with a Gross in it is not to exceed number also the closer you are to the Gross numbers the harder the vehicle will be working.

I hope this helps

Also, dry tongue weight does NOT include battery or LP tanks. This is why I use 15% of the max trailer weight for my tongue/cargo capacity on my tow vehicle. If I stay below that them I should be good all around. I know that I also need to be concerned with rear axle loading on the TV as well, but I travel so light I've never actually weighed it. I use a Husky Centerline TS anti sway and weight distribution hitch that helps keep me well within my F-150's limits.

Here is a photo of my setup ready to roll. The truck is still slightly higher in the rear than the front (no significant squat, although it is lower than when unloaded), and the trailer is dead level.

[MysticalMama]

I just thought you all should know that I just got off the phone with a used car salesman. I was asking him about payloads on different F150's and he basically had to bow out of the conversation! lol He said "You are the first female or male for that matter who has ever asked me these kind of technical questions. Your parents should be proud." hahahaha!!

Thanks to you guys...

I am off to look at trucks and TT's

peace, Maria B, Bug n Bean

[Smidge]

Originally Posted by MysticalMama

I just thought you all should know that I just got off the phone with a used car salesman. I was asking him about payloads on different F150's and he basically had to bow out of the conversation! lol He said "You are the first female or male for that matter who has ever asked me these kind of technical questions. Your parents should be proud." hahahaha!!

Thanks to you guys...

I am off to look at trucks and TT's

peace, Maria B, Bug n Bean

Hooray for YOU. A good student.