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Old 07-31-2014, 08:39 AM   #1
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4 Season TT

Hello All

In our quest to upgrade a little from our first TT ( a real learning experience ), we know we want a rear living model and i would like something 4 season rated. How do you know if it is, or at least more insulated than an average TT.

Will be looking used , so far most say "don't Know "


Jim
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:24 AM   #2
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To be 4 season rated the bare minimum is the unit has to have heated and insulated holding tanks. The insulation in the walls, floor and ceiling varies buy manufacture. Our 5'er is a so called 4 seasons unit but doesn't have dual pane windows or high R values for insulation, but it does have heated, insulated and enclosed holding tanks.

If you're looking for a used unit and want 4 seasons then about the only thing to do is crawl underneath and see if he holding tanks are insulated and that there is heat ducts going from the furnace to the tank area. Some manufacturers install heating pads around the tanks also. As far as wall insulation goes, that will be tougher to determine unless you can find an online site for that particular unit and it has a break down of the construction.

Just an FYI but something to consider is in order to keep the holding tanks from freezing you need to run the furnace to blow warm air on them. That really drains the battery and propane. If your hooked up to elec then the battery is not an issue. I don't know how the heating pads work as far as whether they are 12V or 110V. Just something to think about.
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Old 07-31-2014, 03:59 PM   #3
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Try these two:

Outdoors RV Mfg
Northwood Manufacturing: Arctic Fox

We have a 2013 Timber Ridge 260RLS made by Outdoors manufacturing. We haven't had ours out in the cold yet (picked up May 1, 2014) but have noticed that we can be out in it without the air conditioner on as it stays cooler longer. The Outdoors Manufacturing website has videos to watch which really helped me pick out the one I wanted. There is an OutdoorsRV owners forum also within IRV2 so come in, introduce yourself and ask your questions to an owner, someone is bound to respond (in the subject line please put OutdoorsRv then your question.
Both these trailer brands are built in the west so you'll have some long distance to consider.
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Old 07-31-2014, 04:54 PM   #4
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Where is this Outdoors RV forum within this site? I don't see a link for it in any of the menus.
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Old 08-01-2014, 06:31 PM   #5
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There is no OutdoorsRV specific forum (yet). Most RV builders will be happy to sell you a 4-season or Arctic-Pack unit. Most are so much BS. The only two I'd trust are the Outdoor and Northwood units. Yes there are without doubt others, but not readily available or way spendy. I would recommend looking a the thermal windows. Be aware all RVs are cold below freezing. One tip is to hit your dealer after it starts to get hot, but before others have opened up the units. See which ones are cooler. Hot and cold are the same thing, just different directions. Happy camping.
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Old 08-02-2014, 10:45 AM   #6
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There are other trailers out there that offer better insulation and have heated and enclosed tanks. Northwood and Outdoor just use the word 4 season so it's theirs. Others use different terminology but achieve the same or more '4 Season' capability.
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Old 08-02-2014, 08:17 PM   #7
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There are other trailers out there that offer better insulation and have heated and enclosed tanks. Northwood and Outdoor just use the word 4 season so it's theirs. Others use different terminology but achieve the same or more '4 Season' capability.
Not many offer as much insulation as say a Northwood Artic fox. Personally it's probably the only brand i would trust in really cold conditions.

The problem is there are no standards. Most manufacturers like Lance for instance, just use block foam insulation, double pane windows, and heated and enclosed tanks. Then slap "4-seasons" on it. Northwood and it's sister company outdoorsRV have really thick roofs(hot air rises) with extra fiberglass insulation, and roughly 4-5inch thick sidewalls in their higher end trailers. Plus tons of fiberglass insulation in the floor. They really are four season trailers.


However, the problem with winter camping isn't so much what's in the trailer, but sometimes the connections to the trailer. Water lines can freeze, so be aware of that.
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Old 08-03-2014, 10:25 AM   #8
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Not many offer as much insulation as say a Northwood Artic fox. Personally it's probably the only brand i would trust in really cold conditions.

The problem is there are no standards. Most manufacturers like Lance for instance, just use block foam insulation, double pane windows, and heated and enclosed tanks. Then slap "4-seasons" on it. Northwood and it's sister company outdoorsRV have really thick roofs(hot air rises) with extra fiberglass insulation, and roughly 4-5inch thick sidewalls in their higher end trailers. Plus tons of fiberglass insulation in the floor. They really are four season trailers.


However, the problem with winter camping isn't so much what's in the trailer, but sometimes the connections to the trailer. Water lines can freeze, so be aware of that.

You obviously don't own an RV and definitely don't own am OutdoorRV or Northwood product.
There are no RV's anywhere that have 4-5" thick walls. The thickest are 2.5" and that's on the top line like DVR or Ecell. Just an FYI but AF and Outdoor RV also use block foam insulation in their walls. AF does not have anymore insulation than it's competitors. In fact it has less than many of them. Try reading a Northwood or OutdoorRV brochure and maybe you'll learn something.
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Old 08-03-2014, 12:15 PM   #9
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There are many TT's out there that have the ability to camp in cold weather. I had an 02 Sunnybrook that did well in night time temps of <20 deg F. Many fine TT's went BK a few years ago. A trailer that is good for extreme temps, high or low is going to weigh and cost more than one that is not. My OutdoorsRV trailer is designed to handle temps that I will never camp in. It's nice, but not always needed.
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Old 08-03-2014, 01:31 PM   #10
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You obviously don't own an RV and definitely don't own am OutdoorRV or Northwood product.
There are no RV's anywhere that have 4-5" thick walls. The thickest are 2.5" and that's on the top line like DVR or Ecell. Just an FYI but AF and Outdoor RV also use block foam insulation in their walls. AF does not have anymore insulation than it's competitors. In fact it has less than many of them. Try reading a Northwood or OutdoorRV brochure and maybe you'll learn something.
Don't own an RV??? [Moderator Edit] are you talking about. I used to own a travel trailer, i've since switched to a sprinter campervan conversion that i did myself. I'll probably get another small 16foot travel trailer to town behind the van if i have any more kids.

No, i never did say i own a northwood product. Don't put words in my mouth, then argue against it. But i did look at a NASH travel trailer with a friend for them. The seats in those trailers are made from the sidewalls of an artic fox, they were quite thick, maybe 4-5 inches was a stretch, perhaps 3". It was 2 years ago, and it's not like i brought my tape measurer with me.

I'm not a full-timer, i don't winter camp. Never said i did, but if i did, i'd get something that could handle it. Bigfoot is another one i'd get.
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Old 08-03-2014, 02:45 PM   #11
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Don't own an RV??? [Moderator Edit] are you talking about. I used to own a travel trailer, i've since switched to a sprinter campervan conversion that i did myself. I'll probably get another small 16foot travel trailer to town behind the van if i have any more kids.

No, i never did say i own a northwood product. Don't put words in my mouth, then argue against it. But i did look at a NASH travel trailer with a friend for them. The seats in those trailers are made from the sidewalls of an artic fox, they were quite thick, maybe 4-5 inches was a stretch, perhaps 3". It was 2 years ago, and it's not like i brought my tape measurer with me.

I'm not a full-timer, i don't winter camp. Never said i did, but if i did, i'd get something that could handle it. Bigfoot is another one i'd get.
Take a measuring tape with you next time. All and I mean All trailers are made with either 1-1/2" or 2" thick framing. The aluminum studs in an AF or ODoor are 2" thick. That means they get 2" thick foam in them. Some lower end units have batt insulation. Only the high end RV's have anything thicker. For instance Heartland Landmarks or Redwood 5'th wheels have 2.5" walls. The floors don't have anymore insulation than the industry standard. By which I mean they may have more than some or less than some. But they certainly don't have gobs of it. You really need to get out and got to an RV dealer and look at newer trailers. Northwood and OutdoorRv are no better than any other mid priced trailer. They tout 4 season but in reality they have normal insulation and offer heated and enclosed tanks which a large number of manufacturers also offer. They advertised an off road chassis. if you've seen any of the Caravans made for Australian camping you would see that what is offered here is nowhere off road capable. It may be welded better than some but it's still just leaf springs with shocks. Which by the way other manufacturers also offer but don't lay claims to off road capable.

I do own a Northwood product. I have a Fox Mountain 5'er. It says right on the sticker stuck to the outside by the door. 'All season ready'. Really? It has the same insulation that the AF does and I don't even have dual pane windows. Northwood and Outdoor can claim 4 season ready only because of the heated tanks. They don't care how you will heat the inside. That's the owners problem. They're only guaranteeing 4seasons since the tanks will be protected from freezing if you run the furnace or have heating blankets on the tanks.

Lots of marketing hype out there that needs to be waded thru to fully understand how these units are made.

If I were you I would go look at a NW or Odoor trailer so you will know what you're talking about. And take a tape measure. I can pretty much garranty that you'll find the walls only 2" thick. You can add the outer and inner layers to that and come up with 2-3/8" of you want. But you're still only going to get 2" of foam insulation in it. Same as anyone else.
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Old 08-03-2014, 07:16 PM   #12
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WOW, this thread thread is starting to take a nasty tone. Let's be nice folks. We all have and opinion, but like some parts of our anatomy, some stink more than others. To get back to the original question, no RV is equal to a decent sticks and bricks home. Generally, it all comes down to how good a job the line guy did the day he put the insulation in. If we look a home building technology, small gaps make a huge difference. IMO most "arctic pack" insulation doesn't live up to it's hype. Like cuminsfan says you only have so much space. But do look a the storage doors, the door seals, thermal window option, etc and Northwood/Outdoors does have a good design. Probably better than most. Not sure about the astrofoil. Sounds too good to be true, and it does twiggle my BS meter. I still don't know why spray foam isn't used in RVs. It is amazing in S&B housing. Fills all the gaps. Remember heat rises. The most important part is the roof so far as occupant comfort is concerned. The holding tanks can be antifreezed (expensive) or not used. Beware of generating lots of moisture. condensation is a huge issue. Read up on dew point in house building if you're interested in saving your fiberglass/wood framed RV wall. Suffice it to say, the industry has lots more work to do. Remember this is a FUN forum. We all want to help. Play nice. Happy camping. Ken
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Old 08-03-2014, 07:27 PM   #13
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OK folks, let's cool it down and remember the first rule of iRV2: Be nice to others. Thanks.
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