Boy Scouts was my first camping experience

[cassb]

From a two-boy canvas pup-tent in the early 70s to looking for a retirement RV! Wow, life creeps up on you, eh?


I hope I found the right forum to get some help with our next chapter in life. I don't want to get too verbose, so the short history is State Park tent camping up until we had our first child; thunderstorm washed us out one night; bought first used Rockwood canvas popup trailer in 1995 for $750; had second child and moved from VT to NY; bought used 2000 Coleman Bayside in 2005; house/garage fire destroyed camper, all camping equipment and tow vehicle ('08 Toyota Highlander) in 2015.


4 years later in 2019 and have not camped since the fire... I really miss our summer camping adventures! Plus our friends go from NY to FL in Winter and we'd like to join them for a few weeks each year.


At 58 now, I really would like a self-contained trailer, slide-outs for extra room, and one that I can tow with an 'everyday' vehicle like a SUV (love the Highlander Hybrid). So am thinking about a used trailer under 5000 lbs. that's comfortable for two, can tow with a SUV, and will last for 10-15 years. Would love to find a used TV and trailer together to reduce the setup decisions and cost. Less than 5 years old would be ideal. I don't know if that would be an impossible dream.



So, any suggestions on where/how to shop for used RVs, or recommendations from what you found in your research for a similar setup? Would also love to some day meet people in the same situation who love camping, rc planes/boats, fishing, day hikes, fixing/restoring stuff, campfire stories, geocaching, and of course finding that elusive left-handed monkey wrench and smoke shifter! lol



Thanks!
Bryan

[TonyDi]

You might look into the classifieds here and see what's offered. There are several online sights such as RVTrader where you might find what will work for you. I'd start by going to dealers and seeing what they have. You will soon know what features and brands fit your needs. Then based on that let the internet be your friend.
Good luck with your search. Let us know if we can help you.

[cassb]

Originally Posted by TonyDi

You might look into the classifieds here and see what's offered. There are several online sights such as RVTrader where you might find what will work for you. I'd start by going to dealers and seeing what they have. You will soon know what features and brands fit your needs. Then based on that let the internet be your friend.
Good luck with your search. Let us know if we can help you.

Thanks, Tony. We do plan on visiting local RV lots here and see what the latest stuff looks like. I'm sure my wife will fall in love with the largest, heaviest motorhome on the lot. But my practical side wants a separate TV to use as our everyday vehicle when not camping. So maybe a 4000-5000 lb. trailer that could be towed by a 4Runner or Pathfinder. It's the beginning of the process, so I expect to spend 6-12 months agonizing over all the details.

[Spoonsize]

Local Craigslist?

[cassb]

Originally Posted by Spoonsize

Local Craigslist?

Yes, that was one of my questions. What is the advantage of buying (at presumably a higher price) a used RV from a dealer vs. a private party? Is it like a used car dealer where you get it fixed up/restored to good condition and some kind of limited warranty?

[Normal_Dave]

Might as well drop a little rain on your parade early so you aren't hit by a "NorEaster" later...

Lots of folks want to tow a small to mid-sized trailer with an SUV. Tow rating says "ok", trailer dealer says dry weight is "ok", (search here for Pathfinder towing issues especially the newer ones), What's the problem?

In short, you are "bringing a knife to a gunfight", "trying to drive a wood splitting wedge with a craft-sized ball peen hammer".

You might can do it, but it's not going to be easy, and you'll discover later after much frustration about your now empty wallet, there was a much better solution.

I tow a 3,000lb fully loaded 7x16 cargo trailer with my Mitsubishi Montero SUV V6 and 5K tow rating. It is quite capable, and well within it's ratings, but I wouldn't like towing much more than that with it on a regular basis. I'm near about 60% of my max tow rating. Most folks say stay around 80% or less to be an enjoyable experience. I agree.

With all that said, take time, research, prioritize your "must haves", don't try to fit 10lbs of tomatoes into a 5lb bag.
Edit:

Originally Posted by cassb

So, any suggestions on where/how to shop for used RVs, or recommendations from what you found in your research for a similar setup? Would also love to some day meet people in the same situation who love camping, rc planes/boats, fishing, day hikes, fixing/restoring stuff, campfire stories, geocaching, and of course finding that elusive left-handed monkey wrench and smoke shifter! lol

Craigslist, RVTrader, RVT, Facebook groups near you. This is an RV forum, and my cargo conversion might not be your cup of tea, but this last paragraph has me thinking...Maybe?

Outdoors RV used to have marketing videos that asked, what type of camping, where, what activites do you want to support, then they would steer you towards the line of trailer that best suited the customer desires. I thought it was brilliant, of course they stopped the program. This right here: who love camping, rc planes/boats, fishing, day hikes, fixing/restoring stuff, campfire stories, geocaching combined with the right 4WD SUV is a flashing neon sign to me that says, "cassb needs to do a cargo conversion/toy hauler". You won't win a popularity contest, but the utility and base camp/forest service road options are perfectly suited for a cargo conversion.

Here's ours to start the idea ball rolling, we had fun finishing it out, only took a few months of casual nights/weekends to get it ready to go.
Teardrops n Tiny Travel Trailers • View topic - 4 kids+ 6 bikes+ 4 kayaks+ 1 canoe+ camp stuff=7x16 CTC

If you want something more "off the shelf" ready, checkout IntechRV and the Flyer Explore.
https://youtu.be/BILCZTRQPQU

[Persistent]

Hard side folding campers and tear drop are good for one or two people and can be had in high clearance rough road models. They are easy to tow, good on gas mileage, go anywhere a car can go. Easy for RAV4 or Subaru. They won't slow you down or limit your destinations much. Plumbing tends to be limited but is possible. Add your own custom mattress for better sleeping.

I pulled a Chalet A frame folding camper all over the North American continent for 10 years. I started pulling it with a Toyota Solara. It did tend to blow out tires. I recommend a heavy duty under carriage. It was a cheap model and required much modification to start with and significant ongoing maintenance, but nothing like my cheap Dutchman Kodiak Cub. The Cub is a nightmare.

Stream lined Travel Trailers are next. Easier to tow than all the rest. Available cheap or expensive; tough or smooth road models, can have all the amenities. They can be small or large.
Casita - cheap
Escape - expensive, well built
Oliver - expensive, well built
Air Stream - expensive, well built
RPod and similar are half way streamlined.

All the rest: They all have seven square corners. Big or little, they are literally a drag. Towing over 60 miles per hour cost thousands in gas or diesel. Weight matters in the mountains, but the air drag is high and about the same for an 18 footer through a 30 footer.
I get 8 to 12 MPG with my 20 foot Kodiak Cub. I am reluctant to exceed 65 miles per hour, am always studying potential routes for obstacles, and avoiding bad weather.
Good for staying somewhere, bad for going and going.
Cheap ones have huge startup modification issues. They are hastily built, poorly designed, but look flashy. Cheap ones have major ongoing maintenance issues. Some are listed in manuals as required to maintain useless warranty, some are unexpected. Ongoing maintenance is constantly required.
All TT's often have first year issues. Better manufacturers and dealers have better warranty service. All TT's require ongoing maintenance whether you use it or not.
Consider buying a 2 to 4 year old TT from a private party. This strategy may have fewer head aches.

For warm weather consider a Casita or similar small molded fiberglass. Light, small, easy to tow, easy on gas. Has wet bath. Probably not great for 4 wheel drive roads.

Escape, Oliver, Air Stream, easy to tow, easy on gas, much better built, full on winter camping. They are expensive.

Truth in advertising in the TT industry is non-existent. "All Season", "4 Season", are meaningless. Don't pay any attention to slogans. Buyer Be Ware.

What I think I want:
Something I can pull easily. By easily, gas up at car pumps, pull with a normal mid-size SUV (Nissan Xterra or Jeep Wrangler)
Cross-Over (Subaru, RAV4, etc.).

This size vehicle means very small TT's or folding campers. These small units are great for going and going...

doesn't hang back too hard because of wind drag …
heavy gusty winds I...

All most all full on travel trailers have the same wind profile. They all have seven square corners. They have sever wind drag and the longer they are the more they are subject to cross winds.

What's important to me:
Good build quality that won't 'shake down' over the long haul.
These will appear to be expensive. Keep in mind, Cheap TT's tend to continue to cost a lot after you sign the sales contract.

What's not important too me:
Something overly long, maybe 16' hitch to tail light though 20'~24' is do-able
A full size 20 foot will slow you down a lot and limit the places you may be willing to take it too.

Amenities:

• Toilet and shower in the trailer, preferring more interior space
• Dish or Direct-TV
• carpeted floors

So you are done wild camping and have become an old man like me.

All can be had in small TT,s and folding campers.
Interior space is a trade off with going and going. Slides are flashy and roomy, but require maintenance and are more difficult with snow and ice.
You can carpet any of them easily by cutting in a remnant. I recommend throw rugs that can be easily removed to wash and replace.

Things to do after you narrow down the type of unit you want:
Don't sign anything.
Return to iRV2 and ask for how to get the most out of the buying experience. Searching using the "Google Search" button at the top may turn up lots of advice.
You may not believe this, but the most extreme inspection and test before signing tends to produce the best new TT experiences.

[cassb]

Originally Posted by Normal_Dave

Might as well drop a little rain on your parade early so you aren't hit by a "NorEaster" later...

Lots of folks want to tow a small to mid-sized trailer with an SUV. Tow rating says "ok", trailer dealer says dry weight is "ok", (search here for Pathfinder towing issues especially the newer ones), What's the problem?

In short, you are "bringing a knife to a gunfight", "trying to drive a wood splitting wedge with a craft-sized ball peen hammer".

You might can do it, but it's not going to be easy, and you'll discover later after much frustration about your now empty wallet, there was a much better solution.

I tow a 3,000lb fully loaded 7x16 cargo trailer with my Mitsubishi Montero SUV V6 and 5K tow rating. It is quite capable, and well within it's ratings, but I wouldn't like towing much more than that with it on a regular basis. I'm near about 60% of my max tow rating. Most folks say stay around 80% or less to be an enjoyable experience. I agree.

With all that said, take time, research, prioritize your "must haves", don't try to fit 10lbs of tomatoes into a 5lb bag.
Edit:


Craigslist, RVTrader, RVT, Facebook groups near you. This is an RV forum, and my cargo conversion might not be your cup of tea, but this last paragraph has me thinking...Maybe?

Outdoors RV used to have marketing videos that asked, what type of camping, where, what activites do you want to support, then they would steer you towards the line of trailer that best suited the customer desires. I thought it was brilliant, of course they stopped the program. This right here: who love camping, rc planes/boats, fishing, day hikes, fixing/restoring stuff, campfire stories, geocaching combined with the right 4WD SUV is a flashing neon sign to me that says, "cassb needs to do a cargo conversion/toy hauler". You won't win a popularity contest, but the utility and base camp/forest service road options are perfectly suited for a cargo conversion.

Here's ours to start the idea ball rolling, we had fun finishing it out, only took a few months of casual nights/weekends to get it ready to go.
Teardrops n Tiny Travel Trailers • View topic - 4 kids+ 6 bikes+ 4 kayaks+ 1 canoe+ camp stuff=7x16 CTC

If you want something more "off the shelf" ready, checkout IntechRV and the Flyer Explore.
https://youtu.be/BILCZTRQPQU

Thank you! You might think a conversion would be OK, and if I was 20 years younger with kids, maybe that would work. But we're really looking for comfort and convenience at this point. And remember - my wife will most certainly gravitate to the big class A luxury model on the lot, while I steer her to a more reasonable trailer option. ;-)


The truck-frame SUVs I think may be the ticket for us... maybe the 4Runner or Pathfinder is too small... but I'm thinking a 20'-24' trailer is all we'll need, maybe one with a slideout.

[Isaac-1]

There is no one right answer on finding a used RV, I shopped for my current coach for several months before finding the right one listed on on a craigslist ad 1,100 miles from home.

[cassb]

Originally Posted by Persistent

[...]
What I think I want:
Something I can pull easily. By easily, gas up at car pumps, pull with a normal mid-size SUV (Nissan Xterra or Jeep Wrangler)
Cross-Over (Subaru, RAV4, etc.).

This size vehicle means very small TT's or folding campers. These small units are great for going and going...

doesn't hang back too hard because of wind drag …
heavy gusty winds I...

All most all full on travel trailers have the same wind profile. They all have seven square corners. They have sever wind drag and the longer they are the more they are subject to cross winds.

What's important to me:
Good build quality that won't 'shake down' over the long haul.
These will appear to be expensive. Keep in mind, Cheap TT's tend to continue to cost a lot after you sign the sales contract.

What's not important too me:
Something overly long, maybe 16' hitch to tail light though 20'~24' is do-able
A full size 20 foot will slow you down a lot and limit the places you may be willing to take it too.

Amenities:

• Toilet and shower in the trailer, preferring more interior space
• Dish or Direct-TV
• carpeted floors

So you are done wild camping and have become an old man like me.

All can be had in small TT,s and folding campers.
Interior space is a trade off with going and going. Slides are flashy and roomy, but require maintenance and are more difficult with snow and ice.
You can carpet any of them easily by cutting in a remnant. I recommend throw rugs that can be easily removed to wash and replace.

Things to do after you narrow down the type of unit you want:
Don't sign anything.
Return to iRV2 and ask for how to get the most out of the buying experience. Searching using the "Google Search" button at the top may turn up lots of advice.
You may not believe this, but the most extreme inspection and test before signing tends to produce the best new TT experiences.

OK, now we're talking. Sounds like you and I came to the same conclusions. :-) How do you like your 176RD? Did you also consider the 172E with the pull-out tent beds? Seems like a better use of space. How well does the Pathfinder tow it? This is in the ballpark of what I'm looking for -- about a 20-22' trailer and truck-frame SUV.

[cassb]

Originally Posted by Isaac-1

There is no one right answer on finding a used RV, I shopped for my current coach for several months before finding the right one listed on on a craigslist ad 1,100 miles from home.

You are right of course. Everyone's experience will be different. I guess I'm just looking here for encouragement and support from people who have been through it before.

[tuffr2]

5,000 lbs would be best towed with a F-150 light. That is the F-150 with the lighter frame and the 2.7 litre eco-boost engine.

Sorry to tell you the Highlander that you love can not really tow anywhere near 5,000lbs. Especially a hard shell camper with a slide.

2,500 lbs. would be a comfortable towing weight. Look at mid sized pop-up campers, the Little Guy T@B, A-Liner and the like copies,

The reason I say 2,500 lbs max is I tied towing a 5,000lb trailer with a Honda Ridgeline. The Ridgeline was ok towing this trailer (2008 Gulfstream Streamlight 22SLB) at 40 - 55 mph on back roads to the local state park but not on the highway at 65 - 70mph. The short wheelbase could not control the trailer nor could the V6 engine pull that big sail thru the air at 70mph.

[cassb]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

5,000 lbs would be best towed with a F-150 light. That is the F-150 with the lighter frame and the 2.7 litre eco-boost engine.

Sorry to tell you the Highlander that you love can not really tow anywhere near 5,000lbs. Especially a hard shell camper with a slide.

2,500 lbs. would be a comfortable towing weight. Look at mid sized pop-up campers, the Little Guy T@B, A-Liner and the like copies,

The reason I say 2,500 lbs max is I tied towing a 5,000lb trailer with a Honda Ridgeline. The Ridgeline was ok towing this trailer (2008 Gulfstream Streamlight 22SLB) at 40 - 55 mph on back roads to the local state park but not on the highway at 65 - 70mph. The short wheelbase could not control the trailer nor could the V6 engine pull that big sail thru the air at 70mph.

Yes, I've already decided that I need a truck-frame SUV. The Highlander towed the Coleman popup nicely, but we're done with popups.

[sirtate]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

5,000 lbs would be best towed with a F-150 light. That is the F-150 with the lighter frame and the 2.7 litre eco-boost engine.

Sorry to tell you the Highlander that you love can not really tow anywhere near 5,000lbs. Especially a hard shell camper with a slide.

2,500 lbs. would be a comfortable towing weight. Look at mid sized pop-up campers, the Little Guy T@B, A-Liner and the like copies,

The reason I say 2,500 lbs max is I tied towing a 5,000lb trailer with a Honda Ridgeline. The Ridgeline was ok towing this trailer (2008 Gulfstream Streamlight 22SLB) at 40 - 55 mph on back roads to the local state park but not on the highway at 65 - 70mph. The short wheelbase could not control the trailer nor could the V6 engine pull that big sail thru the air at 70mph.

I can't seem to find any documentation showing that an F150 with the 2.7 has a different frame.

Where did you see that?

All of the body shop manuals have exactly the same hardpoint dimensions.

The towing rating of the 2.7 is significantly lower than the 5.0 or 3.5, but that's the only difference I can find documents for...