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Old 12-20-2014, 11:34 AM   #43
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Everything now is build it fast...I work at a facility where there is a "production" bonus. It's based off of a work standard. So if you do 150% of the standard you get either $7.00 to $15.00 more per hour. So what does that mean. Sloppy work !!! many things over-looked...
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Old 12-22-2014, 08:57 PM   #44
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Another example (as if anyone needs an another example) take a look at this 2015 Airstream Trailer (base price of about $88,000).

Does good to look your new 2015 over! - Airstream Forums

Poor workmanship knows no limits! And so it goes.
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Old 12-26-2014, 02:34 AM   #45
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Conclusion - Ain't No TT Made Like a Honda

And then there are the problems after the problems. Bad enough that they are hastily and horribly built, but it would perhaps lessen the trauma when problems are encountered, if the dealers and manufacturers would quickly and efficiently return calls and address and fix the issues with at minimal a fake smile and semblance of caring. When you pay the money, whatever that price is, then have to stress, lose sleep, threaten lawsuits, and be without your RV for ridiculous amounts of time in order to get issues fixed, it is totally unacceptable. I agree on the points of price and quality, but the basics, such as making sure the screws hit something they are aimed at, not stripped out, not left out, etc. is an employee fix. Do your damn job or we get someone else that needs a job to do it right. There IS such thing as doing it somewhat fast AND doing it right. My take is that many employees and managers are all on the same wavelength. If they are not partying, talking, texting, flirting, daydreaming, working on little sleep, hungover, pissed off at their significant others, taking smoke breaks, etc., then it's something else. Lots of times it just boils down to "they don't give a crap". We live in a different time and mindset. Many of the employees, especially the younger ones, have no desire or can't afford an RV so they pretty much don't care if you get a good one either, but let the newest IPhone come out and they will stand in the snow for hours. It's just sad to read some of the horror stories that have been written by people that have worked, saved, and dreamed for years to get to buy a new RV and hope to relax and enjoy, only for their dreams to turn to nightmares.
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Old 12-26-2014, 09:22 AM   #46
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And then there are the problems after the problems. Bad enough that they are hastily and horribly built, but it would perhaps lessen the trauma when problems are encountered, if the dealers and manufacturers would quickly and efficiently return calls and address and fix the issues with at minimal a fake smile and semblance of caring. When you pay the money, whatever that price is, then have to stress, lose sleep, threaten lawsuits, and be without your RV for ridiculous amounts of time in order to get issues fixed, it is totally unacceptable. I agree on the points of price and quality, but the basics, such as making sure the screws hit something they are aimed at, not stripped out, not left out, etc. is an employee fix. Do your damn job or we get someone else that needs a job to do it right. There IS such thing as doing it somewhat fast AND doing it right. My take is that many employees and managers are all on the same wavelength. If they are not partying, talking, texting, flirting, daydreaming, working on little sleep, hungover, pissed off at their significant others, taking smoke breaks, etc., then it's something else. Lots of times it just boils down to "they don't give a crap". We live in a different time and mindset. Many of the employees, especially the younger ones, have no desire or can't afford an RV so they pretty much don't care if you get a good one either, but let the newest IPhone come out and they will stand in the snow for hours. It's just sad to read some of the horror stories that have been written by people that have worked, saved, and dreamed for years to get to buy a new RV and hope to relax and enjoy, only for their dreams to turn to nightmares.
While I agree with 98% of what you say, IMO it all falls on the management. If management lets the workers get away with it then they will. Those workers working by the piece aren't going to stop and fix an issue if it means getting less work done during their shift. Until management allows them to take full responsibility for their work then I don't blame the workers at all. They're doing exactly what's expected of them. All RV brands are experiencing profit increases as the economy is better and sales are increasing. Looks like their production methods are paying off.

JMHO but production work is going to attract people with less education and weak jobs skills. Pay is low and the skills required for most are low. As they say "you get what you pay for".
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Old 12-26-2014, 02:55 PM   #47
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While I agree with 98% of what you say, IMO it all falls on the management. If management lets the workers get away with it then they will. Those workers working by the piece aren't going to stop and fix an issue if it means getting less work done during their shift. Until management allows them to take full responsibility for their work then I don't blame the workers at all. They're doing exactly what's expected of them. All RV brands are experiencing profit increases as the economy is better and sales are increasing. Looks like their production methods are paying off.

JMHO but production work is going to attract people with less education and weak jobs skills. Pay is low and the skills required for most are low. As they say "you get what you pay for".

Exactly. I was just saying that many years ago, you could almost expect the employees to have the morals and decency to perform quality work without so much management looking over their shoulders. Some would even go to or confront management about better ways, etc. Now, as you said, it's just a paycheck and don't make waves.
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Old 12-31-2014, 08:49 AM   #48
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While I agree with 98% of what you say, IMO it all falls on the management. If management lets the workers get away with it then they will. Those workers working by the piece aren't going to stop and fix an issue if it means getting less work done during their shift. Until management allows them to take full responsibility for their work then I don't blame the workers at all. They're doing exactly what's expected of them. All RV brands are experiencing profit increases as the economy is better and sales are increasing. Looks like their production methods are paying off.
I'm afraid to say it's only going to get worse. If you built a unit that was designed & built right, you would be more inept to keep it longer. But, if you are too feed up with countless trips back to the dealer or spending more time fixing stuff, you are more likely to trade it off for another stab at that "perfect RV". So now they get to build ya another POS. ching ching...another sale $$$$
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Old 01-06-2015, 07:49 PM   #49
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Honda is almost ready to start production on their new jet aircraft. Maybe they will build trailers! I will be first in line.
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Old 01-07-2015, 12:49 AM   #50
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So why don't we, with our hundreds of years in TT knowledge, start up a RV Mfg co and build them right, designed right.
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Old 01-07-2015, 08:12 AM   #51
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So why don't we, with our hundreds of years in TT knowledge, start up a RV Mfg co and build them right, designed right.
If you read these forums you will realize that few people know the difference. Comments about how great their TT is would be the first clue.

In order to build a quality trailer, you would have to produce most of the materials and components. For starters, that means build your own brakes, axles, suspensions and frame. Any components that aren't available, in a high quality, would have to be manufactured.

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Old 01-07-2015, 01:50 PM   #52
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If you read these forums you will realize that few people know the difference. Comments about how great their TT is would be the first clue.

In order to build a quality trailer, you would have to produce most of the materials and components. For starters, that means build your own brakes, axles, suspensions and frame. Any components that aren't available, in a high quality, would have to be manufactured.

I know quality when I see it, and... I know crap when I see it. My trailer has been good... so far. That said, it's not a high-quality item. It's passable, and as I've said before, it must have been built on Wednesday, because I've had no manufacturer-related problems. Until the public stops buying the crap put out by the industry... or until there is a foreign manufacturer that improves quality and keeps the price low... it won't change. I just got lucky...
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:33 AM   #53
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If you read these forums you will realize that few people know the difference. Comments about how great their TT is would be the first clue.

In order to build a quality trailer, you would have to produce most of the materials and components. For starters, that means build your own brakes, axles, suspensions and frame. Any components that aren't available, in a high quality, would have to be manufactured.

Building quality isn't that hard and I am sure that there is a market for a real quality RV Say with a 3 year bumper to bumper warranty.
Car companies don't make all their own parts. The way they get good quality parts from the suppliers is to hold the suppliers responsible for warranty costs. I a confident that Dexter for example could make an axle assy rated for 7,000 pounds that would function with no weld breakage or part bending for 3 years and it shouldn't cost much more than what they make today.
All the body screws could be upgraded to Stainless for less the $20 a unit. Now electrical wiring would be more but by using the connectors already developed and in use in "Detroit" would not increase the cost a lot. You would also save $$$$ by having a harness optimized so you don't have yards and yards of unnecessary wire hidden behind some cabinet
I've been working on the electrics for a few years and know it would be easy to upgrade parts so you don't end up with exposed copper wire leaving the plant.

Best in the industry Warranty would be a strong selling point. You just need to want to be the best rather than the cheapest.
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Old 01-08-2015, 06:44 PM   #54
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Building quality isn't that hard and I am sure that there is a market for a real quality RV Say with a 3 year bumper to bumper warranty.
Car companies don't make all their own parts. The way they get good quality parts from the suppliers is to hold the suppliers responsible for warranty costs. I a confident that Dexter for example could make an axle assy rated for 7,000 pounds that would function with no weld breakage or part bending for 3 years and it shouldn't cost much more than what they make today.
All the body screws could be upgraded to Stainless for less the $20 a unit. Now electrical wiring would be more but by using the connectors already developed and in use in "Detroit" would not increase the cost a lot. You would also save $$$$ by having a harness optimized so you don't have yards and yards of unnecessary wire hidden behind some cabinet
I've been working on the electrics for a few years and know it would be easy to upgrade parts so you don't end up with exposed copper wire leaving the plant.

Best in the industry Warranty would be a strong selling point. You just need to want to be the best rather than the cheapest.

Your last sentence pretty much sums it up.
When you purchase an RV that you have saved for and dreamed about for years, and have to immediately assume that the tires are junk, the slides won't work, the axles are weak, bent, or misaligned, the roof and or seams will leak, etc., it is sickening. They make them pretty, but not functionally or operationally sound. You can't use thin cheap lightweight plastic, staples and particle board, and cheap uncaring labor on something that has to endure the current road system in America.
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Old 01-08-2015, 07:58 PM   #55
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Yes we do have what I call condo's on wheels. We get the freedom to move about the country, change our scenery, sleep in our own beds....just wish that the manufactures stood behind their product without jumping thru hoops. Getting passed down the line to next warranty rep.

I find it's just easier to fix all the little things yourself. I had a slide issue this past summer that I took off the access panels to see what was going on. You would have to think at some point before the final items were put into the RV in the build process, they would vacuum the hidden areas out. I found screws pieces of wiring, loads of sawdust....
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Old 01-09-2015, 12:06 AM   #56
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If nobody buys them to protest then what would we all do? Stay in crappy hotels with unclean sheets? Listen to our neighbors tv in the next room. If you're lucky enough to stay in a hotel with a patio then you can go outside to sit. And while you're there you can listen to some idiot 5' away from you argue with his kids or wife. Sounds like loads of fun.


I'll take my chances on an RV.
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