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07-21-2017, 09:04 AM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 41
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Economic TT solutions
The search feature on the forum did not work very well, so I decided to post a topic that's probably been covered a ton of times. I'm going to use my specifics to help guide the conversation initially but hopefully, this will be a good place for those looking for ways to get into a travel trailer/tow vehicle without breaking the bank.
As for me, I have a small car that will need to be replaced in order to tow a travel trailer. I'm not against buying a truck but I hate the idea of 12MPG being what prevents us from getting out and enjoying traveling. So, recently I've tried to look into what could get a family of 3 (+ medium sized dog) around economically while hauling a travel trailer.
First, the tow vehicle. In the used market, what would be the best ~2010+ vehicle that has good towing capacity but isn't terrible on gas? Before all of the naysayers jump all over that comment, I do understand that those two typically don't work in conjunction. There has to be a happy medium somewhere. Budget is going to be <$15,000.
Second, the travel trailer (Ok, this really should be solved first in the equation but the answer can reverse the order accordingly). I really like the Lance trailers (2016+) but they are REALLY expensive. They seem like great quality but I don't think they would fit into budget. The GeoPro also seem like great little trailers that pack a lot of nice features but the floor plans don't seem great for any more than two people. Ideally, something that offers great value and has some modern touches similar to the trailers mentioned above. Are there any other brands that I've missed that might fit these categories? Budget is <$25,000
(*side note... not sure why all...((most))... travel trailers I've looked at... and it's been a lot... have such terrible interiors. I don't mean quality, I mean color schemes, etc. They all look like they're stuck in the 80s-90s... is that to appeal to an older target market??)
I know there will be much more clarification needed but this is a starting point to the discussion. Thanks in advance for the help!
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07-21-2017, 09:14 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 275
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What size TT are you looking at? That will have a significant impact on our guidance.
Also, just my $.02, but generally speaking, I would be much more likely to spend $25k on a tow vehicle and $15k on the camper than vice versa. The difference in quality of the tow vehicle for the extra $10k will be much more significant than the quality of the TT IMHO. But I'll wait to see your answer to the first question before I give a firm answer to anything. Campers are somewhat unreliable and maintenance-heavy at any price point. A $25k tow vehicle is likely to be significantly more reliable than a $15k tow vehicle.
__________________
2019 Silverado 2500 HD 4x4 6.6L Duramax CC SB
2016 Palomino Solaire 267BHSE
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07-21-2017, 10:27 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 541
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Economic TT solutions
I'm inclined to agree that switching your dollar values may make more sense. I'm not sure what you mean about the interiors. You can get cloth, leather, pleather or just about anything you want if you want to pay for it. I think most of the choices the RV manufacturers make is based on cost to them and then us. There are a lot of RVs out there that could fit your needs. Find a floor plan you like and start comparing brands and models. I am on my 2nd Passport and have had no real issues with it at all. Sure there are things that could be put together with screws instead of staples but even $500k coaches will use staples at times. I traded my 1st one because I wanted a couch and a slide so we'd have more floor space. Our current one is a 2016 2810BH. It sounds like you may not want something that big. A friend has a Hideout with no slide but still has a couch and bunks and they love it for the 3 of them and their 2 small dogs. Another friend has a Jayco and they like it. Have fun in your search. There are lots of folks that will give you support. Bottom line is you have to be happy with your choices so your opinions are the most important.
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07-21-2017, 11:31 AM
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#4
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 41
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To answer the question from the first response, I've been looking at just about everything. I'd say minimum size would probably be around 18' if I had to guess... no longer than about 30' but that would probably end up being too big for any fuel efficient vehicle.
To clarify my interior comment, there are very few interiors that look modern. They're just dull, for the most part... uninspiring. The outside of the Forest River GeoPro, for instance, looks pretty modern compared to a lot of the other brands but inside is all the same... drab browns, ugly accents...
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07-21-2017, 12:34 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Thor Owners Club Pond Piggies Club Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: NE. Ohio USA
Posts: 5,972
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Our last tow vehicle was a 05' Toyota 4Runner (V-8). Towing cap. was 7200lbs. It was the best "daily driver" I ever owned. Non-towing 16-18 city / 22-23 highway. Towing (5200 lbs / 25' tt) 12 mpg.
They only made the 4.7 V-8 from 2003 to 2009 model years. Even when I traded my 9 year old 4Runner for a 14' Tundra it rode like new...( used 08's and 09's are running $12 to $18k). But hard to find one under 100k miles. ** very few 2009 V-8's were made**
I agree about "some" RV interiors. That is why we like our Aerolite (2013) with its warm cherry stained cabinets and " cloth" seating. (I hate the fake leather stuff) and now looking at a Outdoors RV Timber Ridge brand for our "next" RV.
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07-21-2017, 01:45 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 740
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Welcome, and thanks for the good conversation starter. So, earlier I began my typical long-winded rhetorical response, then thought better of it, and cancelled, but I'm back...
Go here, and watch this video:
https://youtu.be/Yfh_DXLo6l4
Then watch these three regarding the different model lines and type of
camping intended. Apply these same questions for your family, then compare the info to everything else you look at.
ORV Back Country
https://youtu.be/g566tkrEEeA
ORV Mountain
https://youtu.be/nwPXHruKXqk
ORV Titanium
https://youtu.be/LlgMtAHIKsM
I really like the ORV models, but you'll have to make a road trip to get one, and they can be heavy with good reason. BTW, here's my favorite small one:
ORV | Creek Side 20FQ
And a leftover 2016 new Creekside 21RBS in Mesa, AZ
http://www.rvsrfun.com/default.asp?p...=xNewInventory
I think their market plan is simple and brilliant. Ask yourself where are you going to camp and what are you going to do? Do you need to haul toys? bikes, kayaks, etc. Rent a truck from Enterprise, then invest in rental of a variety of trailers, do this while you consider a purchase, the rent money will be the best money ever spent, and you learn and enjoy the process. A few hundreds in rentals is nothing like losing thousands because you made the wrong choice buying new or didn't understand what you really liked and how you would use it.
As far as interiors, I'm with you, unimpressive. For me, mostly due to structural cheapness. Seems all the campers are built to be just like home. I'm wanting to get away from home when I camp, yes comfortable, but away.
Consider a Camplite, by Livin Lite with a medium sized multipurpose tow rig, and don't forget your family "might" get bigger.
Here's a nice little one in Valley View, for example. All Aluminum, a little more utilitarian looking interior, but nothing to rot, and the entire unit is strong and lightweight.
2016 Livin Lite Camp Lite 16DBS 56D120F2361004363 - The RV Guy’s - Valley View, Texas 76272
I still favor a Ram 1500 Crew with 5.7L Hemi, with a 3.92 gear/anti-spin, and 8-speed trans to yield decent balance of fuel mileage and light/medium towing.
If your trailer is small enough a newer Durango/Aspen with Hemi and towing package isn't terrible either for a dual purpose family rig, and can be bought reasonably vs Highlander/Surburban/Expedition etc.
If you decide you want a small toy hauler type camper, I really like these:
The Adventure Series Toy Hauler Are these not cool or what?
Edit: I knew I forgot something, with a hardwall travel trailer, plan on averaging 10-12MPG when towing no matter what they say. Chalk it up to the cost of doing business, don't worry about it anymore, just decide that's how it is, and go. Took me a long time and wasted money looking for fuel mileage improvements. A paid for tow rig buys lots of fuel "just sayin"
Well, I've overdone it again, too many thoughts, not enough time, have fun.
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07-21-2017, 02:14 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 726
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Just to throw in my two bits worth. Fuel economy while towing is going to be horriable, regardless of what trailer you get. My old gasser 1500 got 10 MPG towing and 18-20 without. My 2500 diesel gets 12 MPG towing and 18 to 20 without. Plus, I can pull more weight. Both were/are Rams.
Get enough trailer that you can be comfortable in when the weather goes to pot for several days and you are stuck inside. We stepped up from a 25 ft TT with one slide to a 29 ft with 2 slides. There is a significant difference in comfort.
Just my never to be humble observations.
__________________
John Price
2016 Denali 289RK w/a Hensley Arrow Hitch
2015 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummings
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07-21-2017, 03:40 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Liberty, NC
Posts: 829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomgillotti
To answer the question from the first response, I've been looking at just about everything. I'd say minimum size would probably be around 18' if I had to guess... no longer than about 30' but that would probably end up being too big for any fuel efficient vehicle.
To clarify my interior comment, there are very few interiors that look modern. They're just dull, for the most part... uninspiring. The outside of the Forest River GeoPro, for instance, looks pretty modern compared to a lot of the other brands but inside is all the same... drab browns, ugly accents...
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Keep in mind too, that if you purchase a gently used TT, it is yours. Don't like the drab interior, with a little ingenuity and creativity you can spruce that up with paint, fabric, add a backsplash, etc, etc. Just like a house, change it up and make it your own.
__________________
2016 Keystone Outback 328RL
2019 Chevy 3500HD DRW
1 Slobbering English Bulldog for ballast
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07-21-2017, 07:34 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Thor Owners Club Pond Piggies Club Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: NE. Ohio USA
Posts: 5,972
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Quote:
Welcome, and thanks for the good conversation starter. So, earlier I began my typical long-winded rhetorical response, then thought better of it, and cancelled, but I'm back...
Go here, and watch this video:
https://youtu.be/Yfh_DXLo6l4
Then watch these three regarding the different model lines and type of
camping intended. Apply these same questions for your family, then compare the info to everything else you look at.
ORV Back Country
https://youtu.be/g566tkrEEeA
ORV Mountain
https://youtu.be/nwPXHruKXqk
ORV Titanium
https://youtu.be/LlgMtAHIKsM
I really like the ORV models, but you'll have to make a road trip to get one, and they can be heavy with good reason. BTW, here's my favorite small one:
ORV | Creek Side 20FQ
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100% correct...On our returning Yellowstone trip last month, we stopped in Casper WY. who had the Timber Ridge 24RKS (Mountain Series) I thought fit our family. Yes, they are $$$$, Yes, they are heavy, Yes, they are built like a tank. Very impressed with the build...They are made to be off road and off grid ready.
They only had higher end Titanium Series (24RKS) (MRSP $52k) on the lot. We want the Mountain Series. We have also been casually looking for about a year. This is the first one the DW said " THIS IS THE ONE". So when momma gives you the thumbs up your golden. The closest eastward dealer is Denver. 1600 miles for me.....
The original poster is not in this price range. Maybe a small Creekside model. He stated the $15k area where you will find a lot of cheaper / mass-market 2017's shorter 15' to 20' range on year end clearance deals right now.
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07-21-2017, 09:18 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 740
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If you're going that far...
http://www.apachecamping.com/default...timber%20ridge
They've got a brand new 2016 at the same price, but marked "pending".
Seriously, call Thompson RV about the model you want. All their Timber Ridge's are ordered with the X4 off-road and Mountain Storage packages. Dexters on this forum did just that, drove all the way to Oregon, (bypassing Colorado btw) to get his Creekside.
Back to your regularly scheduled program.
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07-21-2017, 09:39 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Nowhere, now here. Freedom!
Posts: 4,602
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Frankly, along the lines of what I've said to others that is basically "if you need to 100% finance and RV, maybe you can't afford to RV", then maybe if you can't stop worrying about towing a travel trailer in a fuel efficient way, you might want to rethink RVing.
I tow a 6200 GVWR trailer that probably weighs about 5600 right now with a 2014 Dodge Ram 2500 with a Cummins diesel engine. Best towing MPG I ever got was 15. Worst was right under 10. The trailer's weight, frontal area, rolling resistance, if the tow vehicle has a good shape to it before the air gets to your trailer, etc., that can really kill the MPG while towing.
But I decided early on that I wouldn't care about it too much, and drive to be legal, and for road and traffic conditions primarily, while never exceeding the speed rating of the trailer tires (mine are 75, so I usually don't go faster than 70 if it's safe and legal). And at 70, I use a lot of fuel.
A lot. A little less at 65, a little less at 60, etc.
Finally, no one will be able to tell you what your MPGs will be while towing, because not everyone drives like you, and vise-versa. But I can tell you that you'll probably enjoy camping in your own RV so much you might not care much anymore about the fuel costs.
__________________
ORV 19B Full Timer from '15 to '20, '14 Ram 2500 Diesel and a GSD. Vancouver, WA
de K7NOL 146.52Mhz Safety? (CLICK ME!)
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07-21-2017, 11:36 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 255
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Reality check time, if you tow a TT,
You will get 9 to 10 mpg.
You will average 250 to 300 miles a day.
You will travel at 60 to 65 mph.
You will be passed by everything on the road.
The only way I know is to improve on this is.
Tow a pop-up, high-low, Trail Manner, or other low profile unit.
Tow at 50 mph or less.
Tow when there is no wind.
My E-boost F-150 gets 18 to 20 mpg on the road. Attach a TT and it is 9 to 10 mpg. It take a lot of power to pull a barn down the road.
We love being on the road and camping; poor gas mileage is just part of the adventure.
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07-21-2017, 11:53 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 255
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I believe the best thing for folks to do is to determined the TT they can think they want, then rent a similar unit for a week or so. The same with the truck if possible.
It is a bit expensive but you will learn a lot very quickly, before you spend the big bucks. We did.
Good luck.
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07-22-2017, 04:49 AM
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#14
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 41
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Some good stuff here... I checked out the Outdoor RV trailers. Those seem very well made. Someone mentioned a leftover 2016 so that gave me an idea. I went onto rvtrader and searched for 'New' '2016' travel trailers and I was surprised at how many left over 2016s that were still out there. I knew there were leftover 17s around but figured not a lot of 16s would be. Having been a car salesman in a previous life (12 years ago) I know that leftover inventory needs to be moved!
I also started taking a look on autotrader for non-diesel 3/4 ton pickups. There are quite a few used ones out there for much more reasonable prices compared to their diesel counterparts. Generally, 2007-2011 year group seem to fit budget.
How many people use 3/4 ton, non-diesels to tow travel trailers? I'm inclined to believe that 3/4 ton non-diesel > 1/2 ton non-diesel... is this a good assumption?
I know, I've not solved the fuel economy problem, but it seems as though I'm not going to until they start mass producing hydrogen fuel cell vehicles......
It would also seem that I would have less of a restriction on weight than compared to most 1/2 ton trucks in that used price range.
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