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Old 10-28-2019, 11:29 AM   #29
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TIMETOCAMP SAID:
"If the dealer won't service then the manufacturer should either warn a buyer or not sell directly to customers. Auto manufacturers would never be able to do this, can't understand why an RV dealer can think it is OK."

As a matter of fact auto dealers can do that. Had a brand new 2003 GMC 3/4 ton pickup that developed a rear end seal leak while we were on a trip from California to Mt Rushmore.

Went to a GMC dealer in a town south of Mt Rushmore and he asked if I bought it from him. Told him no. He said he wouldn't work on it.

I got in my truck that had Onstar and called called GM. They told me a dealer didn't have to service it even under warranty. They then referred me to a dealer in Rapid City.

Called Rapid City dealer and explained what happened. Their service manager came to my campsite that night, crawled under my truck and got the information he needed for a new rearend.

He told me he USED to work for the other dealer who wouldn't help me and said there were "Problems" with the owner.

So Rapid City GM dealer got me fixed and made me a happy camper.
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Old 10-28-2019, 12:09 PM   #30
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YOU HAVE TO TALK TO THE RIGHT PEOPLE!. I bought a new Ford 3/4 t 4x4 pickup several years ago in a neighboring town save a bunch of money on my trade and the new price. it had about 250 mi. on it and wouldn't go into 4 wheel drive. so I took it to my local dealer and the service manager says take it to the dealer you bought if from, hum its a Ford any Ford dealer should work on it. I made a call to the to a number on my warranty info and talked to a person about my problem, got a phone call from my local dealer about 2 hrs. later saying to bring the truck in in the morning and it will be fixed. it took about an hour to fix one of the hubs had not been greased from the factory and was sized up. I had the same problem with a new Porsche I bought years ago. we were 800mi. from home on a vacation and it quits, real low mileage. we finally made it to a Porsche dealer he says take it to the dealer you bought if from. I explained I was on vacation and 800 mi. from home, he said it will be at lest 2 weeks before he could look at it. I call my local service manager and explain the problem, I don't know what he said but they had 3 guys working on it and fixed in fixed in less than an hour.
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Old 10-29-2019, 04:10 AM   #31
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Insurance and registration aren't factors at all because neither of them change by driving another 2200 miles. They are literally unchanged therefore not a factor. Depreciation is also not a factor. Nobody passes on a vehicle sale, or tries to negotiate lower because a vehicle has an additional 2200 miles on it. Even KBB/NADA's values don't drop because of 2200 miles. Tires and brakes are also negligibly impacted. Seriously, the wear to both of those items on a tow vehicle is practically nothing over 2,200 miles of interstate travel.

Regular maintenance also won't change, except maybe pushing you over the threshold for an oil change. I just changed my oil, filters, and fuel filters on my truck. Less than $100 and I used synthetic oil. Fuel is definitely an expense. Assuming 18 mpg there and 9 back, that's an average of 13.5 mpg over 2200 miles, which is 163 gallons of fuel. At $3.00 per gallon, that's $489.00 for fuel. Let's make it an even $500. Let's say a cheap hotel on the way over ($75) and a typical RV spot for 1 night ($50) on the way back. Food doesn't really matter because you'd have to eat no matter where you are, but let's just say you spend $50 more for those 3 days than you would have at home. You also happen to pass the world's biggest ball of yarn and just have to go see it on your trip so that's another $25, for a grand total of $800. That's $0.36 per mile, and you averaged an absolutely abysmal 13.5 MPG which is the vast majority of the expense.


Honestly, if you actually do the math, making an extra trip somewhere doesn't cost you $0.55 per mile.
You are fixated on variable costs. The whole cost of driving includes the fixed costs as well. A part of the fixed costs goes to every mile. Your air filter doesn’t say, these 2200 miles are charity miles, I won’t age during this trip. Neither do more expensive items.
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Old 10-30-2019, 03:49 PM   #32
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You are fixated on variable costs. The whole cost of driving includes the fixed costs as well. A part of the fixed costs goes to every mile. Your air filter doesn’t say, these 2200 miles are charity miles, I won’t age during this trip. Neither do more expensive items.
It's true that such items still "age", but a trip doesn't add anything to those fixed costs. An air filter, for example, will last about 30,000 miles. They cost about $20 (OEM for F350s). That's a total of $1.46 worth of "age" over 2200 miles. I bet you've got that much change in your couch cushion. That's $0.000663 per mile. Okay, let's make the filter $100. Now you're talking about $0.0033 per mile. Okay, now let's say it only lasts 10,000 miles. That's basically a penny per mile, and you're buying a $100 air filter every 10,000 miles. In the real world, you're looking at less than 1/10 of a penny per mile.


I can do the same for brakes if you want. And shocks, and tires, and any other components. It all ends up costing practically nothing. Do you really need me to do the math?
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Old 10-30-2019, 04:03 PM   #33
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I averaged $.30 a mile for diesel on our last trip pulling the 5'er.
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Old 10-31-2019, 04:41 PM   #34
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It's true that such items still "age", but a trip doesn't add anything to those fixed costs. An air filter, for example, will last about 30,000 miles. They cost about $20 (OEM for F350s). That's a total of $1.46 worth of "age" over 2200 miles. I bet you've got that much change in your couch cushion. That's $0.000663 per mile. Okay, let's make the filter $100. Now you're talking about $0.0033 per mile. Okay, now let's say it only lasts 10,000 miles. That's basically a penny per mile, and you're buying a $100 air filter every 10,000 miles. In the real world, you're looking at less than 1/10 of a penny per mile.


I can do the same for brakes if you want. And shocks, and tires, and any other components. It all ends up costing practically nothing. Do you really need me to do the math?
Ignoring all operating costs if you buy a $70k truck and put 200k miles on it then sell it for $10k, that’s $0.30/mile, or $600 for your 2k mile trip. Add in your operating expenses and your cost only goes up.
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Old 11-02-2019, 02:04 AM   #35
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Ignoring all operating costs if you buy a $70k truck and put 200k miles on it then sell it for $10k, that’s $0.30/mile, or $600 for your 2k mile trip. Add in your operating expenses and your cost only goes up.
And if you've buy a $35,000 truck instead of a $70,000 truck, and sell it for $5,000, you've paid $0.15 per mile.



But we're not talking about buying a truck just for this trip and selling it. We're talking about the additional cost incurred by taking a 2,200 mile trip. That's the actual cost of the trip. Total cost of ownership over the life of the vehicle is a completely different discussion. The 2,200 mile trip costs you some lodging expenses, but those expenses aren't part of the cost of ownership of the vehicle. They are trip expenses though. You are confusing "cost of ownership" with "cost of trip".
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Old 11-02-2019, 03:45 AM   #36
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And if you've buy a $35,000 truck instead of a $70,000 truck, and sell it for $5,000, you've paid $0.15 per mile.



But we're not talking about buying a truck just for this trip and selling it. We're talking about the additional cost incurred by taking a 2,200 mile trip. That's the actual cost of the trip. Total cost of ownership over the life of the vehicle is a completely different discussion. The 2,200 mile trip costs you some lodging expenses, but those expenses aren't part of the cost of ownership of the vehicle. They are trip expenses though. You are confusing "cost of ownership" with "cost of trip".
Unless he is renting a tow vehicle for this trip, the fully loaded cost of operating the vehicle is relevant. Just because you take a special trip does not out those costs on ice. Sure, adding in motel and other trip costs is appropriate as well, but your fully loaded vehicle costs apply to every mile driven.

Actually, if you wanted to get pedantic, you could make a case for towing miles using a higher percentage of these costs than non-towing miles. For the sake of this discussion I have not gone there.
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Old 11-02-2019, 11:22 AM   #37
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Unless he is renting a tow vehicle for this trip, the fully loaded cost of operating the vehicle is relevant. Just because you take a special trip does not out those costs on ice. Sure, adding in motel and other trip costs is appropriate as well, but your fully loaded vehicle costs apply to every mile driven.

Actually, if you wanted to get pedantic, you could make a case for towing miles using a higher percentage of these costs than non-towing miles. For the sake of this discussion I have not gone there.
Okay, do the math. Calculate the cost of complete ownership for whatever vehicle you want over whatever mileage you want. I'd suggest the $70,000 and 200,000 miles just to make things easy on yourself. Then make the same calculation for the exact same conditions with the exception of an additional 2,200 miles on the vehicle. I'd recommend $70,000 and 202,200 miles. Subtract the first calculation from the second, then divide that dollar amount by 2,200 and you'll have your cost per mile added by that trip.
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Old 11-02-2019, 10:33 PM   #38
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Okay, do the math. Calculate the cost of complete ownership for whatever vehicle you want over whatever mileage you want. I'd suggest the $70,000 and 200,000 miles just to make things easy on yourself. Then make the same calculation for the exact same conditions with the exception of an additional 2,200 miles on the vehicle. I'd recommend $70,000 and 202,200 miles. Subtract the first calculation from the second, then divide that dollar amount by 2,200 and you'll have your cost per mile added by that trip.
You might want to run the numbers as you state and try again. Dividing with a larger divisor will result in a lower cost per mile. Given that that was your second calculation, when you subtract the first, you will have a negative result - in cost per mile. Further dividing that by the trip miles makes no sense. Finally, you are only including the purchase price and ignoring operating costs. I am done with this thread.
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Old 11-03-2019, 04:24 AM   #39
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Most people will spend $5,000. To save $2,000 and brag about the Deal of a lifetime around the camp fire.

Then 5 to 10 years latter bitch about the dealer that ripped them off on a depreciated $$$$ value for the truck or trailer .

Having fun costs $'s
Running down the roads costs Lots of $$$'s
Eventually [emoji23][emoji848]
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Old 11-03-2019, 10:59 AM   #40
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You might want to run the numbers as you state and try again. Dividing with a larger divisor will result in a lower cost per mile. Given that that was your second calculation, when you subtract the first, you will have a negative result - in cost per mile. Further dividing that by the trip miles makes no sense. Finally, you are only including the purchase price and ignoring operating costs. I am done with this thread.
Okay, I'll run those numbers as I stated. You can get about a 10 year old diesel truck for $10,000 now. It would have cost about $70,000 new, so we'll use $70,000 to $10,000 over 10 years and 200,000 miles. That's $60,000 for the truck. You're looking at about 40 oil changes, for $100 each so that's another $4,000 in oil changes. Plus two coolant flushes, also at $100 each. Plus 10 air filters, at $20 each. Plus two brake jobs at $500 each. Plus four sets of 6 tires at $250 per tire is $6,000. Plus TT&L and registration renewals coming out to about 10% of original purchase price so $7,000. Plus insurance over 10 years would be about $15,000. Oh and fuel. 200,000 miles at an average of 13 mpg is about 15,384 gallons of fuel. At $3 per gallon on average, you're looking at $46,152 in fuel. That comes to a total cost of ownership of $139,552.

Now the same thing, but with 202,200 miles. Fuel costs will change, so 15,553 gallons of fuel, which is now $46,659 in fuel instead of $46,152. You'll do another oil change, and air filter change at an additional $120. Insurance costs don't change since it's still 10 years. Selling price doesn't change since we're talking about a 1% change in total mileage. Purchase price doesn't change. TT&L and renewals don't change since it's the same time frame. You're not going to replace tires either, so that doesn't change. Oh, and you're not going to do an additional coolant flush, so that would be crazy to do just for 2,200 miles. New total is $140,179 total cost of ownership.

Now I subtract the first calculation from the second, just like I said, and we get $627. Now I divide that number by 2,200 miles to get $0.285 per mile. That's not negative. It's 28 and a half cents per mile, and includes the full cost of an oil change and air filter change. That's basically half of the 55 cents per mile that the government gives you. In the real world, those miles are only half of an oil change, and 1/10 of an air filter. It's really $558 for a cost of ownership difference and 25 cents per mile, but eh, I'll give ya 28.5.

Now using that 28.5 cents per mile.... No I'm going to use 30 cents per mile because that's much easier even though I have a calculator available. $0.30 per mile times 2,200 miles is $660 in total that you're adding in wear and tear on your vehicle ($160 of that $660) and fuel ($500 of that $660) for a 2,200 mile trip to save $3,000. That's a total savings of $2,340. Let's say you stay in a 5 star hotel on the way there, and one of those fancy RV resorts on the way back. And you get to see the World's Largest Ball of Yarn! And you have steak and lobster for dinner. Now you're looking at at least $1,750 in savings for driving 2,200 miles. Heck, you could have steak and lobster and at every meal and not manage to burn through $3,000 worth of savings on this little 2,200 mile trip.

A 2,200 mile trip to pickup a camper doesn't come close to costing $3,000. The only way you can even get it to come close to $0.555 per mile is if you're rolling in room and board costs, and staying at 5 star resorts and eating steak and lobster for dinner. Now, if you're taking the family out on a mini-vacation, then yea you can burn through $3,000, but we're talking about a guy going buy a travel trailer from Indiana and heading back home. If he's like me, he's going to grab whatever fast food is available at the truck stop he stops at for fuel.

Like I said, do the math and you'll see that an additional 2200 mile trip doesn't cost close to 55 cents a mile, and the majority of the cost is your fuel to get where you're going.
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Old 11-03-2019, 11:20 AM   #41
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Oh no! I just realized that I forgot about transmission flushes in my calculations. Dang, what else did I miss? Rear diff flushes? That's going to add, what $500 to total cost of ownership? Dang, that's going to add about 1/4 of a penny to the cost per mile figures. My bad bro.
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Old 11-03-2019, 01:10 PM   #42
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The truck depreciated $60,000.
In 10 years.
Thats $6,000. Per year cost.
Or $500. Per month.

Even if you pd cash for the truck there is an interest cost added because the cash has value. Even at 4 percent in savings.

What none of you are figuring is your cost of
( Funding Depreciation each and every Month .

A similar new truck is now $80,000.
Thats 8,000. A year you have to save to be able to replace the truck.
So true value depreciation is 6,000. Annually
And true replacement savings cost is $8,000.
Thats $14,000 annually to start out.

Then add the gass, oil service , tires, brakes
Insurane and missilanious costs.

You guys are all in la la land with your figures.
Unless your going to buy 1 vehicle in your lifetime and junk it in 15 year s and never drive again.

Farmers and truckers and most all businesses understand well this method of figuring.
Ohhh hellll, just borrow and pay double And then pay replacement $$$ plus interest.



Because now you have a $10.000 truck with 200,000 miles on it.
In 5 years it may have a trade in value of $500. At most. And you dont have $80,000 in savings to replace the vehicle. Better to not trade it and. Buy new at a discount price.

So you borrow to buy a $80,000 truck and a $100,000. Fiver.

Unless you're quiting in 10 years with about $20,000 at most in cash value.

You will now also need in savings
approximately $200,000 plus to replace with a new rig.
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