Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Travel Trailer Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-16-2013, 09:38 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 29
Looking to upgrade, but concerned about weights

This is a long post, but I promise a question will follow the story...

DW and I attended a local RV Show today and fell in love with a bigger TT than the one we have now. We were only there to have some fun and weren't seriously looking to upgrade, but what can you do when you find "the one".

Anyway, I have calculated the estimated trailer weight when fully loaded with our gear, and know the TV's fully loaded weight (from previous trips to the scales). The GCWR will be within the manufactures published limits. The problem is I am concerned that the new TT will be pushing the limits of either the hitch weight or rear axle weight of our TV. I am very concerned about safety and will not make a purchase that would end up exceeding any of the TVs published limits (such as GCWR, hitch weight, rear axle weight, etc), but can't accurately predict what some of those numbers would be.

How can I be sure all of these weights will be within the published TV limits before actually making the purchase? Is it typical or customary for a dealer to let you take a TT off the lot to the scales before signing on the dotted line? If so how do you handle the need to get a WD hitch properly configured before doing so? It is likely I will need to upgrade my current WD hitch for this trailer (as the bars for my current hitch are probably not rated high enough for the prospective trailer).

Thanks for any advice you can offer on how to negotiate this part of the sales process!
__________________

__________________
itscottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-16-2013, 11:34 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Paradise, Ca.
Posts: 409
It looks like you have done your homework, and it sounds like your calculations are going to be close to the max. If your concerned you are pushing the limits of your tow vehicles capabilities with "the one" and it sounds like you would be then I would consider a TV that easily meets the TT weight. Being close to maxed out on towed weight doesn't make sense to me, I do not want to accelerate the wear & tear on my truck, nor do I want to compromise safety for a bigger or more comfortable trailer. We have a 28' Komfort with a manufactures weight of under 7,000 lbs, towed by a 3/4 ton F250 diesel. We are looking for something larger and "more comfortable" but have found nothing other then an Excel Winslow TT which is quite a bit heavier and has a much heavier hitch weight, still well with in what I can safely tow. If I go to a 5th wheel, I find my options are more limited because I do not want to be near the max weight limits,even if I am with the manufacturers weight limits.

Any quality RV dealer will set you up with the right hitch system though RV dealers may not offer you the best hitch system because they do not sell them. I have a dual cam system which virtually eliminates any trailer sway and you can make tight turns. Maybe you have it on the rig you have now, if you do not, you might want to check them out.
__________________

__________________
1010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 06:01 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
tuffr2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Palm Coast Florida
Posts: 2,454
I have found that if I get near the max tow capability of my TV I start looking for a bigger TV...it is really a classic catch 22. I hate that white knuckle towing.

If you really like the trailer be ready to upgrade your TV.

Good luck
__________________
tuffr2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 07:05 AM   #4
Moderator Emeritus
 
SmokeyWren's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Midland County, Texas
Posts: 3,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by itscottw View Post
How can I be sure all of these weights will be within the published TV limits before actually making the purchase?
99% of the time, if you don't exceed the GVWR of the tow vehicle, then you won't exceed any of the other weight limits - provided you properly distribute the weight within the trailer.

So use the GVWR of both the tow vehicle and the trailer. Don't try to kid yourself that you won't load the trailer to the GVWR.

Since you know the weight of the wet and loaded tow vehicle (including hitch and passengers and pets and tools and everything else that will be in the TV when on the road), then subtract that weight from the GVWR of the TV, and the answer is the max hitch weight of the trailer.

Divide that max hitch weight by 0.15 and the answer is the max GVWR of any travel trailer (TT) you can tow without being overloaded.

Most TTs have hitch weight of 12% or 13%, but many (including mine) are closer to 15%. So if you use 15% and it turns out that your wet and loaded trailer has less than 15% hitch weight, that's a bit of wiggle room you'll have. And if it turns out that your significant other doesn't load the TT all the way to the GVWR, that's a bit more wiggle room. But don't count on having that wiggle room available for more stuff, else you'll probably be overloaded.

GCWR is not a firm limit. The GCWR tells you the gross weight you can have and still climb a mountain pass at a reasonable speed without burning up something in the drivetrain. You can pull more than the GCWR up a mountain pass if you downshift another gear and become the slowpoke in the far-right lane. But vehicles with single rear wheels (SRW) can rarely get close to the GCWR without first exceeding the GVWR of the TV. So be concerned with hitch weight, not gross trailer weight.

GVWR is a firm limit of the weight your suspension and drivetrain are designed to carry. If you don't exceed the GVWR, then you probably won't exceed any of the other weight limits such as axles, tires, wheels, suspension, etc.
__________________
Grumpy ole man with over 50 years towing experience. Now my heaviest trailer is a 7,000-pound enclosed cargo trailer, RV is a 5,600 pound Skyline Nomad Joey 196S, and my tow vehicle is a 2012 F-150 3.5L EcoBoost SuperCrew.
SmokeyWren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 07:25 AM   #5
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 29
In a perfect world we would upgrade our TV to accommodate, but unfortunately that is not in the cards for us at this time. With that said, if ALL the weights (GCVR, GVWR, GAWR, etc) are within the published limits when loaded for travel and checked at the scales then I am willing to make the purchase. As stated before I am confident the GCWR when loaded will be within the published maximum.

I have a plenty of scale data from my current TT/TV combination to to make me 75% sure we will be within all those limits at this stage of the sales process (based on the weight information I have received on the new TT). My main question is how the rest of the sales process should play out with respect to getting the new WD hitch installed/configured and taking it to the scales for final confirmation. Is that something that can/should be done prior to signing on the dotted line? If not would I be expected to complete the sale and then return it (say within 3 days) if the scales show any numbers will be exceeded?
__________________
itscottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 07:41 AM   #6
Registered User
 
wincrasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Greer, SC
Posts: 670
A Yukon is not an ideal tow vehicle for anything over 5000 lbs. You are also limited on max hitch weight of 1000 (with WD hitch) - which you could easily be there.

I have a 2012 Suburban I use to tow a Surveyor 189 which is a tad under 5000 lbs wet and right at 500 lbs tongue weight (don't use WD). I've also towed a 29' Sunset Trail 25RB with it - this trailer is similar to what your are looking at - around 7000 lbs wet and the tongue weight is right at 950 fully loaded (use WD on that one). Both these trailers feel the same to me behind the wheel. The Suburban's 5.3L is definately at it's max on engine power, but otherwise it handles fine since I installed Timbrens on the rear end.

The big difference in these two trailer is the front cap - the small one is a flat front, and the the big one has an aerodynamic fiberglass cap. I think this makes a huge difference and why I can get away with towing the bigger trailer.

I know my tongue weights because I got a Sherline Tongue Scale on Amazon. This little device (fits in your pocket) can measure a point load up to 5000lbs. It's a very handy thing to have on hand, and something you could take to a dealership and measure tongue weights on the spot. Surely a dealer would not object to that and probably would be glad to assist.

Good luck!
__________________
wincrasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 08:18 AM   #7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 29
The Yukon Denali has a 6.0L with 6 speed transmission and is putting out nearly an estimated 400HP (after an after-market tweak or two). I am NOT using this as an excuse to exceed the safety ratings of the vehicle, as I will not exceed them. Given the terrain/distance I typically tow I believe I will be ok with pulling at the upper end of its ratings.

That is a great suggestion about the tongue scale! I think I may get one of those before proceeding.
__________________
itscottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 08:28 AM   #8
Registered User
 
wincrasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Greer, SC
Posts: 670
I wasn't sure you had the 6L. That should make a big difference on your hill climbing. Do you have the auto-leveling airbag suspension as well? I didn't get that option, so the Timbrens were necessary.
__________________
wincrasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 09:37 AM   #9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 29
Yes, it does have the auto-leveling suspension - which makes it very difficult to get the WD hitch appropriately configured. It required multiple trips to the scales to get it just the way I wanted it.

The 6.0L engine coupled with the 6 speed transmission is very nice. It is very easy to forget my current 4700 lbs trailer is back there. The only thing not very nice about it is the money spent on gas. But, I knew that going into it.
__________________
itscottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 11:56 AM   #10
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by itscottw View Post
How can I be sure all of these weights will be within the published TV limits before actually making the purchase? Is it typical or customary for a dealer to let you take a TT off the lot to the scales before signing on the dotted line? If so how do you handle the need to get a WD hitch properly configured before doing so?
Closing the loop on this and answering the question I originally asked. The dealer initially did not seem to want to work with me on this, indicating that they were sure my TV could safely handle this TT. After insisting they agreed to let me take it for a "test-drive" as long as a dealer representative could ride along with me.

To their credit they even installed and configured a new WD hitch free of charge for the trip, as well as a new battery and full 30# propane tanks. The weights were perfect and left enough overhead room for our stuff (as calculated by trips to the scale with the old TT) without exceeding any of the manufacturer's published limits.

We have signed the paperwork and will take delivery in a week or two! If anyone else is faced with this situation just make sure to insist on a test drive to the scales. I would think any reputable dealer will accommodate you.
__________________

__________________
itscottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.