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Old 02-09-2015, 03:32 PM   #15
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trouble shooting

you need to try one thing at a time, not several at once.

secondly, if you need to use a hose clamp as shown in yu pic, use 2

if not they can leak underneath the bolt. when using 2 née sure

the bolts 180 deg. opposed.

Jim
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Old 02-10-2015, 04:18 AM   #16
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I think you have a bigger problem there. theres a lot of water stains......That looks like its been going on for quite a while. previous owners should have been more up front.....
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Old 02-10-2015, 06:48 AM   #17
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MOTOR7: Well, you and I are on the same page.... I also figured the "water flow" goes in the same direction as your pretty blue arrows!!! Please read my other responses to the other guys because I MAY have discovered a new/different thought about this wet floor issue.
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:32 AM   #18
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NOTHERMARK: Great ideas! I'll address them one at a time.

I decided to look at the barb fitting vs the shark bite, neither of which I'd ever heard of before and I agree, I think the barb fitting would be the better of the two. Glad you pointed out the difference so when I go to HD or Lowes I'll know what I'm looking for. I already have 2 brand new metal clamps and I have a couple plastic ones as well so I think I have the clamp issue covered.

10-4 on the vinyl fail. The previous owner made a few "additions" to this place that were great ideas but apparently he wasn't all that smart about how to do it. For example he added some nice under cabinet lighting over the kitchen sink, an outside light over the dump valves for the gray and black tanks (for night dumping), etc. There's no telling what this guy did to this thing but whatever it is, he clearly did the work himself and he was no professional. What he did LOOKS nice but, as we can see, it appears he made some pretty significant mistakes.

When I tightened the current clamp screw on the back of the toilet, I did borrow a socket wrench and tightened it down best I could given how close to the wall it is. Yes, it was the ratcheting type and it doesn't leak nearly as much as it used to. I need to get me some of those....... I'll add it to my ever lengthening list.

I was up on the roof about 2 weeks ago and I caulked the crap out of it. I made it kinda thick and smoothed it like I was frosting a cake for aesthetics purposes. I did look at the caulked areas around the tub skylight, the vent pipe, the roof antenna, etc.... they all looked pretty good except the roof antenna thing but I took care of that. Again, I'm an over-kill specialist. I don't like to do things twice.

Anyway, the pipe seemed to be pretty well caulked and sealed but once the weather clears up and warms up again I'll go up and check it again. I had planned to check the whole thing in the coming weeks again anyway.

Quote:
I now question if the drain lines are your problem. You could either have a pressure leak or roof leak. The roof leak could be the sealing around the vent pipe that goes through the roof. If you are on "city water" and have a pump you could try filling the tank and cutting off the city water. Listen for the pump running when it should not be. A leak will cause a pressure drop and pump cycle. Another test is to turn off the pump and see if the leak continues. Harder to judge as you do not have a good idea about how fast the leak occurs.
This is where it's going to get a bit "sticky". I AM on city water. I have never had fresh water in the tank here cause I just bought it (first time RV owner) and it was parked and hooked up immediately so I could live in it. I don't know how that whole fill the tank idea works but I have my assumptions....

If I were to fill the tank and run the pump, I don't know if I could hear it. I am severely hearing impaired and wear bilateral hearing aids. Where I am parked (it was an assigned spot and I don't have a vehicle to move it with) I am about 100 feet from a 6 lane highway. The loudest sound I hear is constant traffic. Even with my hearing aids set to muffle background noises (which doesn't work very well) I still hear the traffic more than anything else. I even have to turn the TV up loud in order to hear over it. At least I THINK I turn the TV up loud....I really have no way of knowing because I have no clue what normal sound is like.

So anyway, suppose I do fill the tank and turn on the pump..... 1) if I can't hear it that would be a waste of time and effort but I won't know until I try and 2) how do I empty the tank again once my experiment is finished? Do I just keep the pump on? How will I know when it's empty? Won't I burn out the pump if it runs out of water and I don't know it?

NEW CONSIDERATIONS: I went out and got UNDER the trailer. What I found was that the floor area that is getting wet is "near" where the previous owner installed the new light fixture above the area where I empty my tanks. (From the inside of the trailer, it's inside the upper far left corner of that bathroom cabinet - sort of above that washcloth under the black pipes in the picture of the floor markings.) I thought the water might be coming in from there, running inside the wall and then inside the floor where I have it marked. Thing is, that outside lamp looks pretty well sealed and those wet spots were showing up 24 hours before the rain started.

UNDER the trailer it appears this problem area is between the black and gray tanks but closer to the gray tank and POSSIBLY inside the gray tank area, or at least partially inside. Now... I normally have the gray tank valve open so it constantly drains. (My stupid indoor indication says its 3/4 full when I know darned well it's empty because the valve is open so I have to figure out what the heck is wrong with that too.. and the indicator doesn't work at all for the black tank either which is a bit unnerving - the whole thing worked great at the dealership when all tanks were empty before I bought it.)

Anyway..... on the day the floor was showing these new wet spots, that gray tank was PRESUMABLY full (I wanted to flush the septic line after I empty the black tank so I was storing the water for that purpose - I do not have a spare hose to flush it any other way, generally I fill the black tank once or twice to rinse it then empty the gray tank to flush the rinse water down - probably overkill but that's me ).

I'm wondering if the gray tank being full could have anything to do with it.

Today, with the gray tank valve completely open (and the indicator still telling me it's 3/4's full) the area in the circle where it was darkest (above the date I wrote in there) is gone; only the other two "damp" spots are visible. The skin on the bottom is in really good shape and it is fiberglass so I can't imagine it getting wet from underneath but I don't really know. I also noticed that the area along the edge of the tank (under the trailer) is "soft" when I pressed on it with my fingers. This is turning into a real nightmare.....

So.... all that being said, any other possibilities you can think of? I really need to get my hands on a saw and cut that top off in the bathroom to see what's going on in there... maybe that will be the only way I can figure it out?????
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:34 AM   #19
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Thinking some more and looking again. The reason I changed my mind about where the water was coming from was the pictures. Water leaks are notoriously hard to find so I would take it with a grain of salt.

The reason I mentioned a chop saw was if all you were doing was the one time floor job. You are correct that it will not cut the old floor out. OTOH if there is a circular saw at HF that is half the price of the Rockwell you might be better off with that. Only you can decide.

Somebody else pointed out that the thing to do is fix one thing at a time. I totally agree. Fix the toilet leak and give it time. Also pay attention to the weather and the timing of the new wet spots. If it is rain related there will be a more or less pattern to the amount of wet.
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:44 AM   #20
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SPRAYMAN: Absolutely agree.... one thing at a time. Good idea about the clamp bolts at 180! I'll keep it in mind.
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:52 AM   #21
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NOTHERMARK: It's been pouring out since about 10 am yesterday (nearly 24 hours now) and the spots are not getting any worse. This is really weird....

Your suggestions about where the water might be coming from are all great ideas. You could very well be correct so I still value those suggestions, if not for now, but even for future reference which I hope I won't even need again but good to have in the arsenal.

As for the saw....I'm only doing about a 30 sq foot area for the new flooring so a regular circular saw would be sufficient. The reason I like the Rockwell was because it only weighs 1 lb and can cut to a depth of 2 inches. You can even cut flush against a wall with it (if need be) where you can't do that with a regular circular saw. I was going for the multiple use options and lighter weight but I agree... I might have to settle for a "regular" circular saw at half the price. Sad too because I don't have room to store a full size circular saw. That little handheld gadget could fit in a cabinet or drawer and not take up much room. I'm really bummed it's so damned expensive... It would be perfect for me.
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:03 AM   #22
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Thumbs up

About that little Rockwell saw.... I went to the company website and, for visiting, they give you a 10% off any purchase "promotion" deal. So... the saw was $89.99 but then with the 10% off and the shipping added back in (no tax) it cost $89.60. I ordered it yesterday and I just got notification that its been shipped. I'll be able to get into that floor and see what the heck is going on in a week or so.
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:39 AM   #23
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My new trailer had that "flush valve", that you bought, freeze. Did not know that until I got south, and hooked up to water. Each time I stepped on the flush pedal, a VERY FINE stream of water shot out of the valve, hitting the wall behind the toilet. It was so fine I could not see it, but eventually noticed the floor was wet. Took a while to figure it out. The valve had a very small crack, which only opened up with water pressure when stepping on the pedal. . Install the new flush valve and see if the wetness disappears.
And by the way... KUDOS to you for having the guts to undertake such a project. Good work !!!!!
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:29 PM   #24
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I've read everything but may have missed something along the way.
Maybe the holes previously drilled from above pierced the gray tank?
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Old 02-14-2015, 07:00 AM   #25
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Tom3205 - I will certainly check into that but from everything I've seen SO FAR that leak behind the toilet is coming from the bottom of where the hose is clamped to the elbow with that stupid clamp. I have put my fingers back there a hundred times to see where the water was coming from and then pushing the hose back toward the elbow, while holding said elbow in place, cut off the leak until the next time.

However, as you said, it could be hitting the wall and I wouldn't see it so I'm glad I bought the new fixture in total rather than attempting to only extend the hose (like the manager, Mr. Tool Man - the guy who hit my awning tried to tell me to do).

On the other paw, my floor hasn't gotten wet at all behind the toilet since I put that bowl under the clamp area so I don't believe that's a problem for me... but I'd still like to know about the wall behind the toilet for future reference.

Question: How did you figure it out? Did the wall behind the toilet finally start showing signs of wetness?

Quote:
And by the way... KUDOS to you for having the guts to undertake such a project. Good work !!!!!
Ha ha.... thanks. I was a "daddy's girl" and watched him do things so I've always been into figuring things out and how to fix them so they NEVER screw up again. After 15 years of marriage (divorced now) my husband finally starting asking me how best to do things relating to the house: for example; closing in the front porch for winter, at our cabin in the Adirondack Park in upstate NY (he's still there). He's watched me do all kinds of stuff including my expertise with a chain saw, plumbing, etc. Blew him away. Some guys....LOL!
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Old 02-14-2015, 07:14 AM   #26
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abarkl - You didn't miss anything at all.

I can't figure it out because it doesn't make sense that there are holes in the exact same area that I'm having the problem in yet there's no indication that the previous owner, the only owner, before myself ever did anything there. Like I said, the linoleum was a continuous sheet from the open, walking areas under and into the cabinets in the entire trailer. The bathroom floor was the worst of that whole end of the trailer when I cut out that linoleum.

That being said.... is there a cover on the gray tank? My saw is on the way so I have every intention of opening that up to check it out, but I won't be cutting through the bottom "skin". That's a good thought.... I will certainly pull up EVERYTHING in that area when the saw gets here to see if that's what happened. Good thinkin!

Another question since I'm on the tank thing... is there a cover on the black tank?

I would imagine there is but here's the thing... back when I first got this and couldn't tell when the black tank was full because the inside indicator isn't working, I was rinsing out the tank after dumping it. (First time). I must have filled it too much because when I stopped filling it with rinse water (stepping on the foot pedal) I heard a loud "thump" kind of sound. I took that to indicate the tank was full. I immediately went out to empty it. When I looked under the trailer, water was "flowing" over the side of the tank and onto the ground. Not a lot but like a faucet rather than a waterfall. If there is a top on the tank, why would it do that? I would expect there to be a top for when the vehicle is in motion..... the black tank here, by the way, is under my bathtub.

Additionally, I think I'm going to put in a few 2x4 cross beams in the area's that were most damaged (kitchen and bath) if I can figure out what to screw them too. More support in the floor would be a good thing I think. My thought is that even if the floor got wet again "down the road" (no pun intended) the cross beams would still prevent sagging and sponginess.
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Old 02-14-2015, 07:22 AM   #27
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Interesting.... this weekend only, Rockwell is offering 14% off for purchases made on the internet for Valentines Day. Maybe I should order a couple blades?

I won (have yet to collect) $25 in on one lottery ticket and $4 on another so this makes me feel better about having ordered the saw. It brought it down to the price I would have had to pay for a standard sized circular saw (or a lot closer anyway). I don't normally buy lottery tickets due to my income and I'm not into gambling but the Powerball this past week was too hard to resist.
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Old 02-14-2015, 09:15 AM   #28
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I missed one reply because I was writing one at the time. The tanks are sealed one piece parts. Think big plastic gas can laid on it's side.

The sensors on most are a set of stainless steel screws that pierce the tank wall so they sit a bit into the tank contents. The continuity increases when water reaches the screw and a low power electric circuit turns on the light. The problem is that any kind of damp film will look like water to those circuits. About the only thing one can do is to try to keep them clean. Since you are not moving the trailer that adds to your problem as there is no agitation to slosh the water.

Since you are on city water you can top off the black tank fairly easily with a bucket from the kitchen sink or shower. I would fill the tank from empty counting the buckets so I knew what I was dealing with. Dump the tank, fill about 3/4 full with water and detergent and let it soak overnight. You can sill use it while it is soaking. Dump and flush and see if that solves the metering problem.

If the wet spot was worse before the rain I think you are down to opening up the floor.

I'd start with the saw set for 3/8 inch or so and cut maybe a 6 - 8 inch square. Maybe get a scrap board and cut the hole smaller but big enough to work through. Cut the hole shape and then use a utility knife or chisel to go a bit deeper so you can see how thick the floor is before you cut into something you do not want cut. Set the saw deeper depending on what you find. The other trick is to use a piece of wire with a small L on the end through one of the drilled holes. The problem there is that it may be the floor sits on something you do not want cut but the drill went through. That is why I would go chisel if I had one. More control and a view of what I was cutting. Once I had an inspection hole I could cover with temporary board and a couple of screws then I would decide where to go next.

The problem with replacing the plywood always comes back to finding the floor joists to set your patch edges on. A small hole can be patched by putting the removed part back and using a piece of sheet metal as a reinforcement but a big hole needs something to support the patch. That is why I would go small and see what I was dealing with. You can tell a lot though a smaller hole with a mirror and flash light. If you have a temporary cover for the hole then you can take a few days to think about what to do next and get your supplies together.

Thinking about the water pattern two things come to mind. A hole in the tank is one and a dished tank top with a puddle in it is the other. Holes can be plugged. If it's a dished top then the issue is still finding the water source but you know where the puddle forms.

FWIW The tank is probably polyethylene that is notoriously hard to glue to. OTOH you are not dealing with pressure. I would be tempted to use a chunk of heavy plastic and a tube of silicone. Use the silicone as the sealant spread around the area and covered with a heavy plastic as reinforcement. I'd be keeping my eye open for a foot of heavy scrap plastic. YMMV
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