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Old 02-15-2015, 07:47 AM   #29
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nothermark -

Quote:
The tanks are sealed one piece parts. Think big plastic gas can laid on it's side.
Well, that's interesting..... Yesterday I emptied my black tank again. Filled it with water for a rinse by stepping on the foot pedal of the toilet (Don't have a bucket... and only takes about 8 minutes) and when I went out to pull the little handle to empty the rinse water, the black tank was overflowing a bit. If that's a sealed tank, why and how would it do that?

How would I fix that.... or wouldn't I? I am NOT dropping the tank... this, of course, concerns me for what the floor might be like under the tub (the black tank is under the tub)... The tub is another thing I don't want to remove (and don't know how).

I can certainly do the overnight soak with detergent... easy thing to do. I have Dawn dish soap... would that be sufficient or should I use something else? When I've been rinsing the tank after dumping it, sometimes I do put Dawn in there but it doesn't get to sit. My thought is that it might slosh around a bit while I keep my foot on the toilet pedal and the water is coming in. I really need another hose because I have one of these but mine has a port so I could shoot water in from outside: http://http://www.campingworld.com/s...-adapter/16730

I have not seen the gray tank (the one that is sitting half under the floor problem) go over but then again, I have no way (or reason) to try to flush it out..... should I try it and see if it leaks?

AREA I NEED TO REPLACE is outlined in yellow in the photos I'll attach in a minute. The arrows only show that I have to go a bit farther than what is actually within the frame. The area is directly in front of my refrigerator and that is directly across from my bathroom door. My thought was just to replace the soft spot (area outlined in yellow) but I have extended it to where the leak issue is.

I am aware that I may have to (expecting to because it might actually be the BEST idea, but I don't want to) replace the plywood in the entire bath floor once I remove the toilet to do the work. So.... if I cut it kind of weird I don't really care. MY DESIRE, however, is to make as few "seams" as possible between sheets of plywood so I may have to go pick up a full 4x8 sheet of plywood in order to make the hole thing one piece to cover the bath and the area in front of my refrigerate (would be shaped like a mailbox flag) where I'd only have the "seam" in the kitchen area with the new piece that's already in there. Trying to get it home on a bicycle will be a problem however.... I don't know anyone here (who could assist with a car or truck). I do have metal reinforcement plates (6) to secure the plywood.

Additionally... and this is a question you might be able to help with - I plan to put in a couple cross beams of 2x4 to help strengthen the kitchen floor and that area in the doorway to the bathroom. There are no wooden beams for me to attach said cross beams to; only foam.

My floor is (bottom to top) 1/4 in luan (wet luan) 3/4 inch dry styrofoam and then the 1/4 in luan again on the "walking surface". My trailer is an ultra light so the only "beams" are the two steel beams - one at the front and one at the back, along with the one that goes down the center of the trailer from front to back.

I'll attach a photo of what the kitchen floor looked like after removing the old wet top layer of luan (I left the old foam) and before putting down the new plywood so you can see what I'm talking about. I plan to cut into the foam to put in one or two cross beams. The area in the picture is right in front of my kitchen sink and closest to the bathroom wall. The other end at the doorway is great. Nice and solid. No problem on that end. I think I might just make a "box" outline of 2x4's and drop it in there but there's nothing to attach it to except along that "channel" on the right where the electric wires are. I could attach one side of said "box" to the wood that forms that channel but it would only be attached on that one side.

Without rebuilding the entire floor, how can I attach it for sturdiness? I'm sure I'd come up with something as I do it but if someone can save me some work and some time I might as well ask for ideas before I get to that point.

Regarding the possibility of a dished tank top, what is your opinion on perhaps just drilling a few holes in it so it continually drains into the tank? I fear that in order to find where the water is coming from I'd be opening a whole nother can of worms and I'd likely need to drop the tank; both not sounding like anything I want any part of besides the fact that I can't possibly drop the tank for multiple reasons.

I suppose that I could make a single "slice" in the bottom fiberglass fabric skin to look through it to see what the heck EXACTLY is under that wet spot... I could use duct tape to seal it from the inside of the trailer so hopefully it's unnoticable on the bottom. Maybe I could seal the bottom of said slit with clear nail polish to prevent moisture from seeping through the slit in the future too.
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Old 02-16-2015, 10:07 AM   #30
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Hmmm....your tank(s) have been compromised either by a puncture from the top, or what I suspect is a failed fitting on top. It would be a ton of work to find the leaks and fix them, so I would just drain all tanks at 1/2-3/4 full. If you never fill them all the way up, then you won't have any leaks.

When you pull the toilet make sure the fitting to the tank is not leaking. I bet they don't use Stainless screws, so the steel one's might have rusted to red dust.

As for the floor, 1/4" luan, styro then 1/4 luan??? No wonder you are having problems...Luan is almost hydrophobic and just comes completely apart after one or two soakings....useless stuff inmho.

If you can span from steel joist to steel joist I would just build the sub floor back up to it's 1.25" thickness using a 3/4 sheet of CDX plywood, then a 3/8 sheet of ply. If you can't reach your steel joists, you are going to have movement problems tying into the existing sandwich of foam & luan. Since you are in FL, you really don't need the foam under the floor.

Also, the styro might explain a lot....perfect pathway for water to run down between the Luan unseen. Then when it hits a low spot it pools and soaks in making your wet spots.
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Old 02-16-2015, 01:59 PM   #31
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1. What do you mean by overflowing?
There is a vent fitting and the entrance fitting for the pipe from the toilet and shower. If the vent fitting is leaking dump at 3/4 tank. You will not want to tear apart what you would need to in order to fix it.

2. Dawn works for tank cleaning as does about any other detergent and a soak. Sounds like a half bottle of Dawn, 6 minutes on the flush pedal, let it soak and check for drips in the morning. ;-) I'd flush the grey with water once in a while. Can't hurt and should help avoid buildup. You use the system a lot more than the average camper so need to do a bit more maintenance.

3. I am confused about your floor construction. If you look under the trailer do you see some steel frame and exposed tanks or a flat bottom skin?


4. Plywood is not stiff enough to span an 8 foot gap without some floor joists. What you may have is a torsion box type sandwich dropped over the metal support structure. If that is the case there are no joists.

The way to seam that kind of repair is to cut blocks the thickness of the styrofoam and wide enough to support both edges. I would cut slices off of a 2x4 to get pieces ~ 1 3/4 wide and as thick as I needed. The Rockwell should be able to do that. The trick will be staying on line.

I think you will find using two pieces to patch is a lot easier. Put a seam at the door way and make each patch the size and shape needed. Make the blocks, use glue and screws to fasten the blocks to the top plywood and just glue on the bottom. As I think about it you can probably get away with some small nails and glue on top. Ringshank would be best because you do not want them to pop back though the floor. The key is getting the thickness of the blocks right.

I also think I would do the kitchen first. It's easier to work around a temporary patch in the floor than to not have a toilet.

Another thing to consider is that no matter how neat you are there will be cracks. The flooring folks have a paste filler for those seams that goes down wet and dries hard. Use it to get a flat floor when you are done or the seams will eventually telegraph through.



Forget the fellow complaining about Luaun. We build boats out of the stuff he says comes apart in water. I'm talking off the shelf at HD not marine grade. The plywood/foam/plywood gives you some insulation, stiffness and sound deadening. The question is what is under the bottom layer of plywood? If you are only doing the top skin and use the filler blocks with glue you will not need more reinforcement. Depending on the size of the patches you may also be able to buy a couple of handy panels 2 ft x 4 ft that would be easier to handle.

As far as the tanks go I think you need to figure out what is going on to the extent of when does it leak. If it is not rain related or not full tank related then something is broken that may be fixable.

If that means making a small hole in the bottom skin where they puddle is then patch it with a scrap of plywood after you cut your patches and before you close up. I'd go down from the top carefully then patch from the top. If the bottom membrane is under the bottom layer of plywood you can also tape that on the outside. If there is something else you need to understand it and go from there.

I would not drill a tank to let stuff in but I would patch over a hole drilled into a tank by accident.
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Old 02-16-2015, 07:17 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nothermark View Post
Forget the fellow complaining about Luaun. We build boats out of the stuff he says comes apart in water. I'm talking off the shelf at HD not marine grade.
That's interesting, and I assume you are encapsulating Luan in fiberglass? If not then I wonder why on three campers that I have repaired the Luan was completely utterly disintegrated by a leak?
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Old 02-17-2015, 06:48 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Motor7 View Post
That's interesting, and I assume you are encapsulating Luan in fiberglass? If not then I wonder why on three campers that I have repaired the Luan was completely utterly disintegrated by a leak?
The only thing we did was seam tape them. Most plywood is made with waterproof thermal bonding glue usually set up by an RF field in a pinch roller setup. Faster than any glue that has to dry. Luaun is significantly lighter than construction pine/hem/fir and used to be cheaper with no voids and sanded for underlayment use.

What can happen is the wood laminate starts breaking down. If the wood is falling apart no glue will make any difference but neither will the wood in the plies. Very prolonged soaking will do that to any plywood. We were making kids boats that were fairly abused but we did pull them out of the water most days. Probably soaked some for a week or so. That would leave me thinking very prolonged soaking and maybe some freeze damage to get delamination.
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Old 02-17-2015, 09:21 AM   #34
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Ok, ok...no fighting. I think both of you might be correct about the luan... it depends on the application and use to determine if it's going to break down or not. In my particular case, the first photo I attach shows where I took out part of the floor in front of the door except for the skin (that's what you'll see closest to you in the picture) so you can see how my floor is built.

From the bottom up: Skin (fiberglass fabric, no seams), soggy luan, styrofoam, and the top layer of soggy luan which literally crumbles in your hands. The luan WAS 1/4 inch thick when it was new. It's paper thin now on both sides of the styrofoam. My trailer is an "ultra-lite" so that's why it's made with what I consider absolute crap.

I went out and got a photo of the underside of my trailer and edited it so you can see what's going on where. See photo two.

While under there I took note of where my only beams are.

CROSSBEAMS GOING FROM REAR TO FRONT OF TRAILER: I have one between my black tank and my bumper, the next one you can see in the picture next to the grey tank, the next one is about center of the trailer and then there is one more at the front.

There actually IS NO CENTER BEAM going from the front of the trailer to the rear, in fact, the only beams going front to back are the outside beams that the walls stand on and one more (didn't see how far forward but I noted that beam in the photo with the black and grey tanks. It's EXACTLY one foot in from the door to my kitchen. It's a pretty bare skeleton. I assume its there for added strength since people put the most weight in that area when first entering the trailer.

nothermark: Now to answer your questions:

Overflowing: Water pours over the side of the tank between the "skin" and the lip of the tank along one side. It appears to overflow over about a 2 foot wide area.

Construction of floor: See photos below.

MY question:
Quote:
"torsion box type sandwich dropped over the metal support structure. If that is the case there are no joists."
What is a "torsion box type sandwich"? I think of torsion as meaning a twisting or turning...

Another question:
Quote:
"The way to seam that kind of repair is to cut blocks the thickness of the styrofoam"
Please define what you mean by "blocks". I am guessing you mean the 1 3/4 (2) x 4's but I am not certain.
You might need to explain your process a bit more "simply" as I am female and not that far advanced in building stuff. Also, why would I need glue if I'm screwing the stuff in and what exactly should I be gluing to what? (I have a large bottle of Elmers Wood Glue....would that be sufficient?)

Regarding the ringshank screws.... wouldn't regular screw screws have more grip than the ringshank? Do actual flat head screws exist? I didn't see any last time I was at Home Depot unless I missed them somewhere.

ABSOLUTELY will do the kitchen first. That's where I have more room to work and figure stuff out as I go along. If I can get that all straightened out, the bathroom will be a breeze.

Do you happen to know the name of the paste filler I will need? I do want to "seal" the plywood patches to each other so they won't rub when walked on and squeak as they do now where I have the kitchen semi-repaired. (That's totally gotta come up... had someone come in here the other day about 50 or so lbs heavier than me and it totally needs more bracing.)

As for the possibility of the tanks leaking, I can check the grey tank from above but there's no way for me to get to the black tank. Its under my bathtub.

Motor7:

I certainly will check everything when I pull up that toilet. When I received the new water mechanism the package also included a new "O" ring for the floor. I'm going to caulk around that stupid thing too before I put the toilet back down.

The problem with filling or not filing the tanks is that my sensor for the black tank doesn't work at all and the one for the grey tank says it's 3/4's full even when I have the drain valve outside open and the tank is very much empty. What I've started doing in the last three weeks is just emptying the tank every Sunday morning. When I first moved in here I didn't empty it for 21 days. I forgot about it so that was my first time! Didn't have a problem with it then (that I was aware of).

I do recall there was about a half inch of steel beam on at least one side of where I opened up the kitchen floor... it's been a while so I will have to look into that. The idea of laying 3/4 inch CDX plywood as a base is interesting. I'd just have to figure out how to get it here. I'll have to pull the floor up and see what I've got before I can determine if that plywood idea or just building a "box" with crossbeams out of 2/4's would be the best idea. I never removed the stryofoam from that area except right in front of the door so I'm not sure what might be under or alongside it that I can attach to.

I'd like to keep some styrofoam in the floor because I don't plan to keep this and I want to make sure future owners will have the noise suppression and insulation in the floor because I have no idea where they might go with it.
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Old 02-18-2015, 07:04 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Animalangel View Post
Ok, ok...no fighting. I think both of you might be correct about the luan... it depends on the application and use to determine if it's going to break down or not. In my particular case, the first photo I attach shows where I took out part of the floor in front of the door except for the skin (that's what you'll see closest to you in the picture) so you can see how my floor is built.


My point about luan is that is no worse than pine for delamination but a lot lighter and often lower in cost. No plywood will stand up to prolonged soaking as is typical with roof or floor damage. I have seen the same thing in boats where water is trapped between fiberglass skins over plywood.

From the bottom up: Skin (fiberglass fabric, no seams), soggy luan, styrofoam, and the top layer of soggy luan which literally crumbles in your hands. The luan WAS 1/4 inch thick when it was new. It's paper thin now on both sides of the styrofoam. My trailer is an "ultra-lite" so that's why it's made with what I consider absolute crap.


Not crap. Typical.



I went out and got a photo of the underside of my trailer and edited it so you can see what's going on where. See photo two.

While under there I took note of where my only beams are.

CROSSBEAMS GOING FROM REAR TO FRONT OF TRAILER: I have one between my black tank and my bumper, the next one you can see in the picture next to the grey tank, the next one is about center of the trailer and then there is one more at the front.

There actually IS NO CENTER BEAM going from the front of the trailer to the rear, in fact, the only beams going front to back are the outside beams that the walls stand on and one more (didn't see how far forward but I noted that beam in the photo with the black and grey tanks. It's EXACTLY one foot in from the door to my kitchen. It's a pretty bare skeleton. I assume its there for added strength since people put the most weight in that area when first entering the trailer.

Whatever. There side to side or center beam is not that big a deal as long as there is some way to add some support. You have them going across.

nothermark: Now to answer your questions:

Overflowing: Water pours over the side of the tank between the "skin" and the lip of the tank along one side. It appears to overflow over about a 2 foot wide area.

That is a problem. The tank should not be able to overflow like that. Among other things the trailer would be sloshing out sewage as somebody drove down the road with it in tow.

The tank leak concerns me because it may be the source of your water. If they made the tank as an open container with a rim and then sealed it to the bottom of the floor as a top it would eventually rot the floor due to the constant moisture in the tank. I think you need to figure out if there is a top over the tank with a seam split or if there is no tank top. Either way it needs to be fixed.


Construction of floor: See photos below.

MY question: What is a "torsion box type sandwich"? I think of torsion as meaning a twisting or turning...

Torsion box - an assembly made by gluing skins on either side of a frame. The most common example is probably the standard interior hollow core door. The two skins and a spacer resist twisting better than one single layer the thickness of the two skins alone and are lighter than a solid door panel that thick. In your case there is/was probably a rim around the edge and maybe some nailer blocks under the wall all cut to the same thickness as the foam. Foam is dropped into the space. It stiffens the floor and adds noise suppression and insulation.

Another question: Please define what you mean by "blocks". I am guessing you mean the 1 3/4 (2) x 4's but I am not certain.
You might need to explain your process a bit more "simply" as I am female and not that far advanced in building stuff. Also, why would I need glue if I'm screwing the stuff in and what exactly should I be gluing to what? (I have a large bottle of Elmers Wood Glue....would that be sufficient?)

The traditional way to splice plywood is by gluing and fastening wide pieces of plywood across the butt joint. I'm suggesting you simplify that by using strips of solid wood between the sheets of plywood. The blocks need to be the same thickness as the space between the sheets. If you had more tools I would suggest something else. You do not so I suggest you get a short 2x4 and cut slices lengthwise to get strips 1 3/4 inches wide x the spacing. Lay them in the space so half is under the old floor and half hangs out to support the new floor. Elmers wood glue will work as long as it does not get soaked for days. The reason it is not classed as waterproof is that it will not pass a boiling soak test. Don't boil your trailer. ;-)


Regarding the ringshank screws.... wouldn't regular screw screws have more grip than the ringshank? Do actual flat head screws exist? I didn't see any last time I was at Home Depot unless I missed them somewhere.

Screws are fine. I suggested ring shank nails because I was not sure what you had for a power screwdriver.

ABSOLUTELY will do the kitchen first. That's where I have more room to work and figure stuff out as I go along. If I can get that all straightened out, the bathroom will be a breeze.

Do you happen to know the name of the paste filler I will need? I do want to "seal" the plywood patches to each other so they won't rub when walked on and squeak as they do now where I have the kitchen semi-repaired. (That's totally gotta come up... had someone come in here the other day about 50 or so lbs heavier than me and it totally needs more bracing.)

I don't have a brand in mind as it has been a while since I needed any. A quick look at HD shows this:

Henry 345 1-qt. Pre-Mixed Patch and Level-12063 - The Home Depot

The products I used were a bit gritty when they dried. That is not a problem under any glued floor and should not be under your strip planking. The only problem is that it is difficult to sand if you leave lumps. Do a good job putting it down. IF you have a problem it's easier to go back and fill divots rather than sand off hills.

As for the possibility of the tanks leaking, I can check the grey tank from above but there's no way for me to get to the black tank. Its under my bathtub.

Motor7:

I certainly will check everything when I pull up that toilet. When I received the new water mechanism the package also included a new "O" ring for the floor. I'm going to caulk around that stupid thing too before I put the toilet back down.

The problem with filling or not filing the tanks is that my sensor for the black tank doesn't work at all and the one for the grey tank says it's 3/4's full even when I have the drain valve outside open and the tank is very much empty. What I've started doing in the last three weeks is just emptying the tank every Sunday morning. When I first moved in here I didn't empty it for 21 days. I forgot about it so that was my first time! Didn't have a problem with it then (that I was aware of).

I do recall there was about a half inch of steel beam on at least one side of where I opened up the kitchen floor... it's been a while so I will have to look into that. The idea of laying 3/4 inch CDX plywood as a base is interesting. I'd just have to figure out how to get it here. I'll have to pull the floor up and see what I've got before I can determine if that plywood idea or just building a "box" with crossbeams out of 2/4's would be the best idea. I never removed the stryofoam from that area except right in front of the door so I'm not sure what might be under or alongside it that I can attach to.

I'd like to keep some styrofoam in the floor because I don't plan to keep this and I want to make sure future owners will have the noise suppression and insulation in the floor because I have no idea where they might go with it.
I filled in my answers in Italics above.
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Old 02-18-2015, 10:18 AM   #36
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Oh my.... men! LOL! You made the WHOLE POST in Italics! That's why there are more women secretaries than men!

Anyway, I think I fished out the answers.

Before I go any further, let me tell you the tools I have been able to accumulate to this point:

Typical hand tools: box cutters with extra blades, needle nose pliers, multi-head screwdriver, couple little handsaw kinda things (not for cutting trees but maybe trim work) and 2 pair of vice grips.

Very recently added to my arsenal: Electric drill with drill bits and also bought a set of spades, Socket set (46 pc Husky Stubby set from Home Depot reg and metric) and that Rockwell saw should be coming today as the tracking says it's "out for delivery". I still need to pick up some blades for the Rockwell however so if you have suggestions on what might be best for Plywood and laminate (one that would prevent chipping or splintering) would be great. I was thinking carbide for the plywood and maybe a diamond edge for the laminate.

I do recall now that the one steel beam that goes across my trailer (and alongside the grey tank) can be used for stabilization when I pull out that styrofoam. I think I have about 1/2 to 3/4's of an inch to rest anything at all on all the way from the kitchen outside door to the far wall of the bathroom.

OF SPECIAL NOTE: There is a very clear and straight delineation between soft and hard floor in front of my refrigerator and into the bathroom doorway. I'm not sure of it's purpose but it's in the subfloor. When I get my saw and some blades I'm going to take a look at it. This might be something I can attach cross beams to for stability and strength. There may well be wiring running in a channel there so I'll be careful. I've outlined the area in red but its hard to see in the picture. Very easy to see/feel in person.

**************************************************
Quote:
Overflowing: Water pours over the side of the tank between the "skin" and the lip of the tank along one side. It appears to overflow over about a 2 foot wide area.

That is a problem. The tank should not be able to overflow like that. Among other things the trailer would be sloshing out sewage as somebody drove down the road with it in tow.

The tank leak concerns me because it may be the source of your water. If they made the tank as an open container with a rim and then sealed it to the bottom of the floor as a top it would eventually rot the floor due to the constant moisture in the tank. I think you need to figure out if there is a top over the tank with a seam split or if there is no tank top. Either way it needs to be fixed.
Exactly my thought as well. There is about a 1 inch space between the lip of the tank and the skin on the base of the trailer so there may be condensation issues there as well as the sloshing factor. I wouldn't expect that the fiberglass fabric would keep moisture out forever.... this would be a manufacturing/factory defect if that's what's going on. I wonder if contacting the manufacturer would be of any help if I find this to be true. Considering that I am the second owner and the trailer is a 2003, I'm not sure they would "do" anything about it to compensate.

Anyway, we're having some very cold days here but it should warm up over the weekend. I suppose I could get under the trailer and see if I could feel around the top of that tank to see what I can find. Considering that "sewage" has been over that side I'll use a large lawn and leaf bag to lay on and put a plastic bag over my hand.

TORSION BOX: Ok, cool. Got it now. Good idea.

BLOCKS: Got that too. Thanks for breaking both of those down for me.

I'll also stop "boiling my trailer" since that's not a good idea!

The Henry patch you provided the link for looks like pretty good stuff. I'll likely buy one of those when I get to that point. Thanks. I am really good about laying patches and that kind of stuff because I'm OCD about it being nice and smooth and needing as little sanding (or preferably none) as possible. I'll keep that in check with no problem.
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Old 02-18-2015, 11:33 AM   #37
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Ok, we know the top of the black tank is compromised. If you are "lucky", when you remove the floor in the bathroom you will be able to see the top of the tank...and just maybe you will see the hole(s). What really needs to happen is to drop the tank and do a proper inspection.

The luan/styro sandwich in my opinion does three things for the mfg....saves weight, insulates and is cheap. It is in no way the best way to build a floor, simply because of what you are looking at right now. You are in a pickle, unless you can span your new replacement floor between those beams, replacing sections is going to require a lot more work. Attaching the new section the old sandwich presents a real problem since that sandwich is not what I consider a sturdy anchor point. An entire sheet has good strength and rigidity, but once you cut out the bad places what is left is severely compromised.

I hate to say this, because I know this will require you to hire someone, but welding in a few cross members between those beans exactly where you need them will allow you to do a permanent proper fix. If the damaged area is over the tanks, then you have even bigger problem with access.

As far as white Elmers....I would not use it, but instead pick up a tube of Titebond III...Home Desperate carries it and it's waterproof. I think Gorilla Wood Glue is also waterproof.....
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Old 02-18-2015, 01:42 PM   #38
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TORN..... got my new compact circular saw today (haven't seen them in any stores to try out) and even at 5 lbs it's too heavy for me to hold with my right hand/arm because of the arthritis pain in my clavicle and shoulder joints.

I think now I might be better off with a regular sized circular saw (albeit heavier) because of the extra handle across the top that would allow me to also hold it and control it with my left hand/arm which does not have arthritis or pain (yet?). Really don't know what to do.... I didn't expect this to be that heavy or that big but it IS a very nice saw.

On the other hand, it's not something I will use very often but I will need it for a few consecutive days work when I start working on the floor in here which could end up being quite painful for me as well as cause swelling and pinch some of those nerves I have between disintegrating vertebrae that give me intermittent problems as it is.

Should I return it? Not sure how much that would cost either.... money is tight. Damn......
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Old 02-18-2015, 02:01 PM   #39
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Motor7 - I won't be able to look at the top of the black tank when I pull up the bathroom floor. It's underneath the bathtub and I won't be removing that; only the part by the toilet and sink area. I also cannot possibly drop the tank for a number of reasons as much as that would be the right thing to do.

That being said, it just now occurred to me that the black tank is under, not only the bathtub, but the kitchen sink area as well and that the floor (inside the cabinets) is solid and hard as it should be so... if the tank is compromised and causing the bathroom floor to become wet, I would think it would do the same with the undercabinet area in the kitchen, wouldn't it? Hm....

I will only (possibly) be able to take a look at the top of the grey tank (a very small portion along the edge if any) by taking up the bathroom floor.

I believe I may have enough joists already in the floor to support "boxing in" with 2x4s at least on 3 sides for stability.... I may be able to place another 2x4 on the area where I THINK I might need one. If this is so, I will only need to frame in a slightly larger area, add crossbeams (12 inches on center should do it) and slam down some nice plywood on top of the whole she-bang and lay the laminate.
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Old 02-19-2015, 06:38 AM   #40
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Ok, looking forward to your pictures of the frame work once exposed. As for circular saws, go to a pawn shop,look for low use one with a good blade carbide tipped .......and don't pay over $20 for it.

Oh, and as far as the Rockwell, try it. Remember you will not be holding it up except when you do a plunge cut and even then you are pivoting it on the base plate. Once the blade is through, then you are just gently pushing the saw down your pencil line. How about this, if you don't like it, I'll buy it from you for what you paid including shipping?
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Old 02-20-2015, 05:38 AM   #41
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Motor7 - regarding the Rockwell.... hm.... you do have a point. I could try it first. It sure is a neat little gadget.

Ok.... you're on. TODAY I'll open the floor with it to see what I've got to work with. That'll show me what's under there and let me test the saw to see if I really can handle it or not without being able to help guide it with my left hand. The company also has a 30-day return policy so even if you didn't want it, they've already sent me the return label (their cost though they'll likely deduct it from what I paid along with a restocking fee...). Guess I've got nothing left to lose, right? Photos to follow after I start playing with it. Right now it's 6:35 am and it's a bit too early for me to start hacking away at the floor.

I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for the idea.
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Old 02-20-2015, 07:01 PM   #42
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Alrighty then!!!! First of all, this Rockwell saw is the neatest thing since sliced bread. Sorry Motor7, I'm keeping it. My shoulder wasn't as bad today as it was yesterday so it wasn't as much of a problem. Additionally, you were right; the hardest part would be the plunge cut. That took a few tries to get used to because I have't done any with a regular circular saw in over 10 years. But... it all worked out in the end.

I have cut two holes in the floor. The first was in the bathroom in front of that cabinet where I had the holes drilled all over the place. There is nothing at all in the area of the wet floor as you will see in the photos below. The dark brown you see in the bottom of the hole is the SOGGY lower layer of luan under the styrofoam. The styrofoam was NOT wet, however it was wet between the top layer of luan and the top of the styrofoam. Really weird.

I wasn't able to get as close to the cabinet as I wanted to but then I thought, probably don't want to get too close anyway. As you will note in picture 2, I actually found a 2 inch steel crossbeam in there so I'm really happy with that because that's will be great for when I box that bathroom it as it will have that sturdy beam for support. Now I will just have to see what else in there I might be able to use closer to the door.

CRAZY INSANE THOUGHT: Now... this is just a thought.... not a definate.... but what if I cut that wall between the bathroom and kitchen just a little bit higher so I could put the floor all the way through from one end of the trailer to the other in a "solid piece"? There is only ONE SPOT where that wall is attached to (I suppose) a steal beam but the rest is open space under that wall. If I cut the wall a bit shorter from the bottom, I could potentially slide new plywood right under it, except for where that stupid wall is attached and it's about as big around as a large screw so it might not be so hard to work around. Anyway... don't mind me, I get crazy with ideas when I'm playing with power tools.

In the third picture you'll see the area that runs between the refrigerator and into the bathroom doorway. I had to be careful there because I knew there was a.... um..... hm... a whadda-ya-call-it containing my electrical wires going into the fuse panel under the kitchen sink (Not the first place I would choose to put a fuse panel but I also didn't design this thing).

If you look at the 4th picture I got a bit more close up into that whadda-ya-call-it and you can see some metal where the wires come out a little hole.

I have marked in the photo that there is about a 2-3 inch wide something very hard that goes from the fridge to the bathroom cabinet. I believe this to be something I can use (hopefully) to attach framework to for the floor for more support. I didn't want to cut a whole lot out at this particular time because I don't yet have the 2x4's to frame it in yet and I want to have all the stuff I'm going to need before I take it all up.

I mainly did this to test out the saw (it came with a carbide tipped blade) and to see what in the heck was wetting the bathroom floor which we can all agree is still inconclusive.

The "skin" mentioned in the bathroom photo is the ONLY thing between the inside and the outside of the trailer. Sadly, I did put a couple holes in it that I will need to patch from the inside once it's dry enough to hold some duct tape. Tomorrow when its warmer out I'll go look on the outside and see where the holes are. Although I didn't WANT to make holes, it will give me an idea on the underside of the trailer where that wet spot in the bathroom is located. From inside the trailer, I could see the grass beneath so it's not quite over my grey tank as I thought it might be.

And, in case anyone is wondering, I did a "sniff test" on the soggy lower level of luan that lays directly on that skin and it did not smell of sewage. It had no smell at all.

Oh well......
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