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Old 03-01-2015, 06:38 AM   #57
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Ok, thanks folks for the prompt responses, suggestions, thoughts and input.

KKTravel:

1) I do not deliberately fill the tank till I hear the pop, however the gage in here that indicates how full or empty my tanks are doesn't work. It never reads the black tank at all, it says the grey tank is 3/4's full when I know it's completely empty because I have the valve open, and I don't know how to fix it because it's inside the tanks. It worked when all tanks were empty and dry at the dealership the day before I bought it (or so it appeared but again - all tanks were empty).

2) Ok, I will check for the small thin metal u-shaped cross braces between frame that hold tanks in place. It will have to wait until it stops raining though... the ground is soaked and I'm going to have to get under there anyway to measure for those metal cross beams I'll need to get.

3)
Quote:
you can drill and screw L-brackets to the cross brace - then drill and screw angle iron brace to them.
I'm not quite sure which way you mean to attach the L-brackets..... of course, I'm still waiting for the coffee to be done and I'm on day 4 of a screaming migraine so... I'm having concentration issues due to the pain (prescription med not helping)....

4) Ok about making the L-brackets out of the piece I currently have and bending before cutting. Just gotta figure out #3.

************************************************** ***

nothermark:

I won't be trying to brace from under the tank. Upon closer inspection I actually do have 2 beams between the two tanks that I can attach to. KKTravel is assisting with suggestions for that and I believe it will work nicely once I figure out how I can stabilize those new crossbeams I will put in there so they don't fall out if and when this bucket starts moving someplace.

The floor IS dry. Been dried out for quite a while now. The bathroom floor, where I cut that hole in front of the cabinet - that's all dried out too now. Not sure why just opening it up would have dried it out but it did. I'm replacing the plywood anyway because of the delamination issues previously discussed further back in this thread.

The ONLY CAUSE I can find for the wet flooring in both the bathroom and the kitchen is the toilet mechanism and too short water intake hose. I'll be taking care of that once I get this project under way. I still have a few things to buy before I can start tearing everything up and with finances as tight as they are, it's a very slow moving project. Painfully slow, in fact, but I have no choice. It is, what it is.

My plan is to brace the floor from under the trailer as per KKTravels suggestion and then also brace from inside with 2x2's or something like that just for "sh**s and giggles" before I put down the new plywood and then the laminate. I want to make the floor so solid that when the entire trailer rots in some junk yard 25 years from now, that kitchen and bathroom floor will be the only thing still recognizable and solid.

************************************************** ****

RoamingGnome:

Ok..... that's a possibility. I can do that and see if it helps. Thanks for the idea.
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Old 03-01-2015, 07:50 AM   #58
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The reason it dried out fast is that you did not have a lot of water in there but it was trapped by the membrane on the bottom and the wood/vinyl layers on top. No air circulation to dry it out. Once you opened it up you let the water out.

If the floor layers are dry you can decide whether they are solid enough to rebuild the sandwich on. Outside bracing will show up as a problem. In floor bracing will not show up. You keep saying 2x2's but I think they sound too big. Whatever you use needs to be the size of the space between the plywood skins and wide enough to over lap the ply by an inch or two. More is better. Glue everything. I'm also assuming you are using the same 1/4 inch material that came out of there.
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Old 03-02-2015, 08:45 AM   #59
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Quote:
If the floor layers are dry you can decide whether they are solid enough to rebuild the sandwich on.

Outside bracing will show up as a problem. In floor bracing will not show up.

You keep saying 2x2's but I think they sound too big. Whatever you use needs to be the size of the space between the plywood skins and wide enough to over lap the ply by an inch or two. More is better. Glue everything.

I'm also assuming you are using the same 1/4 inch material that came out of there.
Wow.... that's correct about the outside bracing, I didn't think of that... I want to trade this in and I certainly don't want it to be obvious that there's been a problem... glad you mentioned it. Since I was thinking of boxing in the subfloor from the inside I'll just do it that way where nobody will see a thing.

I haven't actually picked out or purchased the wood I will use to box in the floor from the inside so I'm not aware if I could buy stuff the correct width of what I need. The subfloor is 1 1/4 inches (in total) so if I have to saw something down I would do that to make it the right size but you can bet I'll look for something pre-cut to the size needed (or have it cut at the store) to make less work for myself. I was just stating 2x2 as a "general" figure for explanation/demonstrative purposes.

Not going to use 1/4 inch luan.... I'm going to use at least 1/2 inch plywood, or even 3/4 inch. I'll see what they might have available in the markdown pile at Home Depot when I get there. I always check that first. Bad spots can be worked around or cut off. I don't need that much. I currently have a 1/2 thick - 2 ft by 4 ft sanded wood panel here that I will use for something, too. I'll remove some of the styrofoam so I can use a thicker panel of wood for better stability and strength.
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Old 03-03-2015, 08:26 AM   #60
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You are going way into overkill on the heavy plywood. You do not have a big enough clear span to need it. Luan handy panels at HD are void free sanded panels that weigh half as much as pine and are a better material. You probably do want to double them to get ~ 1/2 inch and then make some bracing.

To brace them you need to insert some beams that span the area between the bottom braces under the trailer. You will also need to make some splice blocks where the seams are. The easiest way is to rip strips off of 2x4 or 2x6 stock that are the width of the gap in the floor. Cut them off and turn them wide side up after the cut. A better way is to cut strips of plywood and laminate them into a sandwich the required thickness. That lets you go 4 inches or so wide for plenty of overlap. Glue everything as well as screws.
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Old 03-04-2015, 07:28 AM   #61
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I haven't even seen luan panels at Home Depot. That's the only place I can get to on my bicycle. (There is a Lowes but it's a bit further away and the trailer empty weighs 35 lbs so I'm trying to stay as close to home as I can.)

As for the thickness of the plywood, I'll take whatever I can find on the 70% markdown pile at Home Depot. It's cheaper and I figure that if it's thicker, that's fine with me. I could take a 1/4 inch if they had it on the pile too.... either way. My aim is at the 70% off pile and, I'll just make whatever I find there, work!

Quote:
To brace them you need to insert some beams that span the area between the bottom braces under the trailer. You will also need to make some splice blocks where the seams are. The easiest way is to rip strips off of 2x4 or 2x6 stock that are the width of the gap in the floor. Cut them off and turn them wide side up after the cut. A better way is to cut strips of plywood and laminate them into a sandwich the required thickness. That lets you go 4 inches or so wide for plenty of overlap. Glue everything as well as screws.
That's pretty much the plan (except for self laminating a bunch of plywood together). Back to the 70% off pile....

QUESTION: how do I eliminate squeaks in the floor? I found that the squeaking is caused by the plywood rubbing against another piece of plywood when you make a piece to fit tight in a cut hole. Would screwing it down to the braces I will make in the subfloor make that stop? OR would the gluing make that stop? I don't want to have a squeaky floor under the laminate that I will eventually put on top.
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Old 03-14-2015, 03:53 PM   #62
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Unhappy

My new replacement saw is in it's way and I thought that while I'm waiting I'd tear up the sub-floor in the kitchen and see what I can find so I'll know what I can attach to. Here is what I found:

The beam that runs alongside the edge of my black tank runs up the center of the area of the kitchen floor (from the door to the bathroom wall) and then there is that other beam that goes across about a foot inside the door. (See photo one below - I put some "extra wood" I have laying around on top of said steel beams to show where they are.)

The next beam over is in front of my refrigerator and that one runs along the grey tank. I did not rip up the subfloor that far over because I don't have anything to put down that I could walk on in the meantime.

I really hoped there would be a wooden beam or something holding up my entire kitchen cabinet/stove/sink area so I'd have something solid to attach to but clearly it's just balancing on the same cheap sub-floor the rest of the place has. That's just not cool......

My question now is: will the floor be "stable" and "solid" enough if I box in and just try to screw said "boxes" into the steel beam? There is nothing to attach them to otherwise......
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Old 03-14-2015, 05:05 PM   #63
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Found another leak!!!!

Just so happen to even catch it with a drop of water about to fall..... see photo below.

QUESTIONS:

1) Is this a screw type of connector or something else?

2) How can I tell what size water hose this is without disconnecting the whole thing? I'd like to buy the parts before I start taking everything apart because I don't have a car to go running around in if I need something at the last minute.

3) How do I drain the water from my lines???? I haven't a clue.

Thanks.
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Old 03-15-2015, 08:37 AM   #64
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For squeaks and strength glue everything. Either liquid nails or Elmers will work.

The joint where the red pipe meets the white pipe looks like a threaded connector for the vinyl. I would be looking at replacing it with something like this:

SharkBite 1/2 in. Brass Push-to-Connect x Male Pipe Thread Adapter-U120LFA - The Home Depot

and replace the vinyl with a premade section with threaded ends.

The white vinyl hose is behind also looks like it is expanded beyond safe levels so will fail next. You might want to change it out while you are at it.

FWIW the plumbing in the camping trailer/motor home universe is designed around 45-55 lbs pressure. If the park runs higher you should add a pressure regulator at the faucet that feeds your hose.
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Old 03-15-2015, 10:34 AM   #65
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Thanks for all the very helpful information.

I think I'll probably try the Elmers WOOD Glue (large bottle) that I've been dragging around with me for quite some time and see if that will work well enough; if not, I'll pick up some Liquid Nails.

I suppose I can try to figure out how to drain all my lines (I have an idea how I might do that though I've never tried it before) and disconnect that red/white section and see if I can't figure out what it attaches to up top. I could take it with me to Home Depot so I'd have the length right too....

Quote:
The white vinyl hose is behind also looks like it is expanded beyond safe levels so will fail next. You might want to change it out while you are at it.
I wondered why that back white hose was so much bigger than the one in front!!!!! I thought it was just a fatter hose!!!!!

I'm not sure what the water pressure is here in the park and management went out of state for a funeral. I can ask when they get back around the end of the coming week. In the meantime. I really need to fix this leak!! I can back the pressure down to my trailer by just closing the faucet it's attached to, right?

This leak seems to drip when I have the hot water tank turned on or am using the sink faucet. When nothing is "running" it doesn't appear to drip. Same thing with the bathroom toilet. When I use water in the kitchen sink or take a shower, the bowl I have behind the toilet fills with water. It's really quite odd (at least to me).

Guess I'd better get to it.... I'll drain the hot water heater first since I watched a video on that last night and I don't know when the previous owners did it last, if at all.
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Old 03-16-2015, 05:54 AM   #66
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Turning down the valve changes the flow. Reducing the flow reduces pressure when the water is flowing but lets it go back up to full pressure when the flow stops. A pressure regulator turns off the flow when the pressure gets to it's set point thus before it gets up to the input pressure. That is assuming the input pressure is higher than the set point.

Elmers is fine.

The hoses you are looking at are probably the faucet supply lines. I hate to say it but the easiest way to get to the faucets is usually to take the sink out. If you are lucky there is room to get to the fittings with tools. The supply hoses come in a range of lengths in both plastic and braided steel protected. There should be a rack of them in the plumbing section.
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Old 03-18-2015, 07:22 AM   #67
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To update this kitchen leak issue... Yes, these are the supply lines to the kitchen sink. That back white hose (for the cold water) is actually a 1/2 inch hose (the same hose used to the tub, toilet, etc) so I don't think it expanded or anything due to pressure. The size is actually printed on it toward the back. Should I still be concerned with that one?

The front hose for the hot water (the one with the leak) is a smaller hose for some reason. But regardless..... I've been working on that monster for 2 whole days already. My bruises have bruises. Its very difficult to get into that cabinet and work at the back like that but I'm a very tiny person and I actually can fit both arms and part of my head in there at the same time, hence the bruises on the back of my upper arms.

After SEVERAL round trips to the Regular Home Depot (2 miles each direction) and 2 round trips to the Mobile Home Depot (5.5 miles each direction) I am exhausted (I do not have a motorized vehicle and only ride a bicycle and I just turned 60 on Monday so I'm no spring chicken either).

I finally have the correct size of hose I need to go from the red thing... pipe? to the kitchen sink. The first attempt at fixing the leak was with a pressure thing that they gave me at the Mobile Home Depot. That leaked too.

Ended up buying a sharkbite straight quarter turn shut off valve to stick in there and spent all day Monday and Tuesday taking it off and putting it back on in-between messing around trying to make sure there were no "burrs" or anything on the red thing sticking up that I was attaching it to. That stupid thing continued to leak at the bottom. After much frustration, I took it back to the store to exchange it for another and everybody at the store kept telling me these "never fail". Well, guess what? The new one I bought back late last night went on perfectly the first time and as of this morning is still not leaking AT ALL.

That's not the end of the story, unfortunately. Nope... why would would anything EVER be easy for me? I was able to take a shower and wash dishes (cold water only for the dishes but they are clean) last night and did what I had to do this morning (Coffee) and now I'm about to go take that sharkbite piece off to take it BACK to Home Depot because....... well.... it's a 1/2 at the bottom which IS the size I need and does not leak, but the top part..... well.... it says on the box it's a 3/8's and it is NOT a 3/8's because my hose is and they absolutely will not connect. I spent over an hour trying to figure it out, even took the part off so I could attach it outside the cabinet and it just does not match up. So... somebody switched the product in the box is my guess.

Now, I think this was the last fixture they had at Home Depot in the size I needed (or claiming to be the size I needed) so I am going to check. If they only have one left, it's going to be the one that leaked that I returned yesterday and I'm NOT going through that again..... I'm hoping they'll have these at Lowes. It's a little farther to ride but not too bad. I'm taking my correct hose with me too to make sure it's going to fit.

Boy..... for something that I thought was going to be a very simple fix (I've never had this much problem with plumbing.....) this one sure is killing me. It's already taken two whole days (one was my birthday no less... not exactly how I wanted to spend it) and now we're on Day 3. I hope this will be my last trip..... My legs are like rubber.

While I was under the sink making this fix, by the way, I found another problem that I hope isn't going to be this difficult to fix. That small area (about 2 inches) of counter-top between the sink and the stove is "collapsing" underneath so apparently it got wet at some point. I have a dish drainer over that area so nothing ever touches it but I'm going to have to brace it from underneath. I will need to fix this before the top becomes compromised.
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Old 03-22-2015, 08:42 AM   #68
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Be careful what you wish for....."can't catch a break"....I "caught one":


It's a long story, surgery to fix this was a week and a half ago. I'm stuck in a sling for 4.5 more weeks, then many many more before I can even really use my rt arm for any of the 5 thousand projects I have surrounding me on the farm.

Back to the plumbing, I have used Shark Bites without fail...you are special I plumbed my whole house with 1/2 & 3/4 pex myself and love the stuff. As you can see the Pex has not failed, it's the Elchepo connecting lines they used. If those lines are not too long, I would replace them with braided Stainless steel supply lines....I have had many of those plastic one's fail...never had a SS one fail.

Whatever you do, do not cut off any of your Pex....especially in a confined space without thinking ahead. First, you need a special tool to crimp on the new bronze rings, and if you don't have the space it can't be done. The side crimp SS rings are easier install with a different tool, but you will still need some room.

Also, pick up a water pressure reducer/regulator...any RV place has them. That way you can protect your plumbing from excess Rv park water pressure.

I have a couple of concerns. If you do not or cannot go under the trailer to support your repair where you have no joist/beam, then when you step on these spots shown by the red star, it's going to give:


And once again, do you really want to save $6.78 by using non waterproof Elmers wood glue???? Are you that confident that water will never ever be present on that repair as long as you own it?
Elmer's E7310 Carpenter's Wood Glue Max, 16 Ounces - - Amazon.com

Hard to tell from the pic's, but I'm thinking, pull the sink and replace that particle board with the same thickness plywood.
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Old 03-23-2015, 10:36 AM   #69
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Wow, dude!!!!! That's gotta hurt!! Is that your collar bone? If so, I can (sort of) feel your pain because I have arthritis where the collar bone meets that shoulder there... looks like where they had to put you back together. NOT a fun place to have pain. Feel better soon!!!! (You must be a klutz like me! I've been known to fall UP stairs and off my shoes...Don't ask. LOL!)

************************************************** ********

RE: PLUMBING:

Ok.. so SharkBite.... this is ridiculous.... first of all, I had no choice but to cut the red what-ever-that-was to get the old fixture off. Made a complete mess of it too because I didn't have the proper tool to do it with. Due to the hard to get area of the plumbing, cut it at an angle with a saw and, of course, "skipped" the blade up one side of the red part making slash marks up the side. Yes, I can be quite talented.

Fast forward to the part they gave me at the "Mobile Home Depot" store (owned by Home Depot but it specializes in RV and mobile homes parts) 5 1/2 miles away (one direction - and I have no car or any available for my use, not to mention it's be very hot and humid here). Couldn't get that part (presumably a knock off of SharkBite) to work. Kept leaking, hated it so returned that one as well.

Went to the regular Home Depot (2 miles one way) got a SharkBite straight quarter turn shut off valve to install. Damned thing leaked. Removed and re-installed in about 9 times between Monday and Tuesday. In between, filed, sanded (with a nail file, didn't have sandpaper) and trimmed the red part even (picked up a pipe cutter that I had to return due to lack of funds for upcoming rent)... it was a real project. Nothing I could do, including tapping the valve onto the red part with a rubber mallet, would stop it from leaking.

Tuesday afternoon decided to take that SharkBite back to Home Depot to exchange it and see if maybe it was a faulty fixture. Brought the "new" on home put in on and VIOLA! no leak, HOWEVER, somebody put the valve in a wrong box and the top part I needed to screw the hose up to the faucet didn't fit. I needed a 3/8's end and they just did not work. I believe the top of the valve was a 5/8's. Had to take that back on Wednesday morning. (I kept it overnight because without it leaking from the bottom, I was able to turn my water on with the valve closed so I could take a shower.)

Home Depot only had two more in the box on the shelf. The one I took back and another one that someone else took back with tape all over the actual fixture, not in a box. I thought... oh, no... I'm not doing this again and left empty handed and went to Ace Hardware.

There a nice fellow gave me the kind of part I actually wanted in the first place, a screw type deal. As you screw it together after putting a plastic ring around the pipe (in this case the red thing) it tightens and seals. Brought that home, ALSO since I like to "over-do" things, used some plumbers tape on the end of the red thing, put it together and NO MORE LEAK!!! In fact, I had so much trouble with the stupid thing for 2 1/2 days I STILL keep checking it and am completely amazed that it's not leaking at all. It would have been a very simple fix if I had parts that actually worked the first time but they didn't. I also used a braided stainless supply line.

So now the leak is fixed and I only have to worry about the bathroom toilet leak (as far as I can tell) and why my hot water tank doesn't always light now (I have the switch inside my kitchen) but those will be for another day.

Uh oh.... I just went under the sink to take the photo of the new repair job and while none of the hoses are wet, the floor in the bottom of the cabinet was. It MAY have been that the bottom of my liquid laundry soap bottle was wet when I put it in there but I'm not sure. Can't smell anything on the paper towel I used to wipe it up.... so, it's dry now, everything is dried and I put it all back in. At least it's not the pipes that are leaking.... will keep a watch on that.

************************************************** ******

RE: FLOOR:

Hm... this is the Elmers I have now: http://www.amazon.com/Elmers-E7010-C...02X80MW51X68K2

Didn't know there was another kind (the one you gave the link to). I'll look into it.

Unfortunately, as much as I would LOVE to pull the sink, stove, powerbox, etc AND the wall between the bathroom and kitchen, as well as the toilet and bathroom vanity to replace the whole floor, it's not feasible for me. ALL of that would really need to be pulled for a proper fix. I just have no place to put the stuff and I'm alone and need those things usable daily since I live in here. The best I can do is repair it "as is". The floor under the sink and stove area, btw, is solid except right under that facing (the part where the cabinet doors are screwed to, for instance). I'm not quite sure how I want to deal with that yet. I could "dig it out" and shove wood in there to help brace it but then again, I have to find a way to brace the wood as well. I'm still thinking about that.

As for your pretty red stars...yep, you got that right! I have to walk carefully on the kitchen floor NOW because since I broke up the styro to see what was under it, I've lost all stability there. I stay out of the kitchen as much as possible for that reason and every time I DO go in there, I wince when the floor squeaks and I can feel it give under my weight. I try to step only where I know the beams are. I may have to put in some braces from underneath whether I want to or not.
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Old 03-24-2015, 12:08 AM   #70
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If your Elmers is yellow or brown it is waterproof for all practical purposes.

If you span the underlying braces with a couple of beams it will stiffen the floor. The better you glue everything together the stronger it will be. Best would be top and bottom layers with glued spacers. Without the bottom skin you need closer beam spacing to get the stiffness.

Good job on the Pex. As you found out the right parts make all the difference. I'm dealing with a bathroom drain with similar problems.

Assuming the bit of particle board between the sink and stove is the under side of a laminate counter top you are a lot better off just bracing it from the bottom. Anything else will involve replacing the counter top.
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