Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Travel Trailer Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-22-2013, 02:43 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 71
Problem with tires.....

I have a 35 foot toy hauler with three axels. A few tires still look decent after 6000+ miles, a couple are iffy and one had chords showing so bad I had to replace it with my spare. Is that normal or is there some issues with my axel alignments? Being straight axels I would think not. The really bad one was a front axel tire, with the other two kinda bad ones on back. Maybe it is just I need better tires?
__________________

__________________
bighamstoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-22-2013, 02:54 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Skip426's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 14,970
Straight axles can be bent, causing extreme tire wear. Just clipping a curb can do it.
Don't put money into new tires without having the alignment done.
Scuffing of the tread on the rear axle of a three axle set up is not unusual , you have to rotate the tires to keep the wear from becoming excessive.

To see the loading put on the rear axle tires, stop your rig in the middle of a tight corner ( parking lot not on the street ) and walk back and look at what happens to the sidewall and tread.
__________________

__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
Skip426 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 03:31 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Langley. BC, Canada
Posts: 677
Don't count on your wheels being balanced either from the factory or after having a tire shop balance them. The drums can be quite out of balance and no matter how much you try to balance the wheel/tires, they can still be way off. Have a look at this post:

This is a post by Lynnmor from another iRV2 thread (can't seem to get direct link to work):

That is what I am saying. The drums have not been balanced for many years, in fact now thay are cast and machined so poorly that thay can be extremely out of balance. You will not eliminate effects of imbalance unless the complete assembly is balanced, thus the waste of time.

I have a tool & die shop and made simple balance equipment to correct my problems.

What you can do without any equipment:
The next time that you have a drum off, remove the seal and bearings.
Wash the bearings, spindle and hub to remove all traces of grease.
Back off or remove the brake shoes on one spindle.
Reassemble with a few drops of very light oil on the bearings and no seal.
Keep the bearings slightly loose and perfectly clean.
The drum will rotate to where the heavy side is down.
If known, the heavy side of tire goes opposite the heavy part of the drum.
Install the tire/wheel on the hub, using all the lugnuts.
The heavy side of the assembly will rotate to the bottom.
Apply wheel weights to wheel till balance is accomplished.
Mark heavy spots on wheel and drum.
Mark lug locations.
Balance all wheels on that one cleaned spindle.
Clean, lube, assemble and adjust brakes as usual.
This is a lot of work, but you can achive balance within 1/2 oz.
I use the stick on weights from Harbor Freight so that I can keep the weights more in line with the drum.

I doubt that anyone will do the above, but I just wanted to offer a solution.



You could try putting a straight edge under your axles. They should be straight when sitting with trailer loaded. They are made with a pre-loaded a bend in them so when the full weight of the trailer is on them, they straighten out. Do you know what your axle ratings are compared to the GVWR or even what the max. rated tire loading is?

Some say you should replace the ST tires at 5,000 miles to be on the safe side. Then there's the question of what brand your tires are and their quality. I'd go with Maxxis or Goodyear for new ones or LT tires if you can. Scuffing the sidewalls of ST tires is not good for them. With a heavier trailer I would have to think that you'd want to be extra vigilant about keeping tire pressure correct and staying under 65mph.

Maybe also a good time to be checking and repacking wheel bearings if not done in a while.

Dumb question - I wonder if the tires on triple axles tend to wear out sooner because the front and rear ones are farther apart compared to a dual axle trailer? The front and rear wheels on the triple axle trailers would have slightly different turning radiuses. Probably dumb, but I have to ask....
__________________
Gil & Deb & Dougal the Springer Spaniel
2014 KZ Spree 262RKS & Ford F250 supercab V10 4x4 LB
Langley, B.C.
myredracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 03:40 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Skip426's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 14,970
Gil, give my parking lot maneuver a try some time , I was shocked the first time I saw what was going on , on my dual axle 5er.
__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
Skip426 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 04:30 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 71
I actually did the parking lot maneuver by happenstance. Had to park at about a 60 degree angle. Thought one of my front tires were almost off the rim...WOW, that looked terrible....
__________________
bighamstoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 05:26 PM   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
TXiceman's Avatar


 
Vintage RV Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Oklahoma Boomers Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Full Time, TX Home Base
Posts: 17,150
Blog Entries: 21
You have an axle alignment problem,bent axle and/or an over loaded axle.

Ken
__________________
Amateur Radio Operator (KE5DFR)|Full-Time! - 2012 6.7L Ford Crew Cab Dually -2013 HitchHiker Champagne 38RLRSB - Travel with one Standard Schnauzer and one small Timneh African Gray Parrot
TXiceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 08:40 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Skip426's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 14,970
Quote:
Originally Posted by bighamstoy View Post
I actually did the parking lot maneuver by happenstance. Had to park at about a 60 degree angle. Thought one of my front tires were almost off the rim...WOW, that looked terrible....
Having seen that , do you have any questions about ; tires with a trailer only rating, or why they only last 4 or 5 years.
__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
Skip426 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 09:16 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lowell, Arkansas
Posts: 4,684
Yes, you will have some weird tire flexing around tight turns. I have been told that's exactly why TT tires (sidewalls) have to be constructed differently to withstand the flexing. Does it have much to do with excessive tire wear??? Think about this. In the course of a 6-8 hour driving day exactly how much time are your tires spent in weird contorted flexed positions taking tight turns?? Maybe 2 or 4 or 5 or maybe even 10 minutes. I don't see how that can cause excessive tire wear. I believe it's more about tires on the edge of being overloaded, under sprung axles and no shock absorbers to keep tires in closer contact with the ground.

To answer your question it is somewhat simple math. What is the maximum weight of your TT (toy hauler)? What is the maximum weight that each tire is supposed to carry? Multiply that by six then subtract the tongue weight, because the tongue weight is being supported by your TV. I'll bet that your tires are close to being maxed out on what they can actually carry.

Here's a comparison. Our coach 30' WBGO MH has a maximum weight of 18,000 LBS. We have 6 - 19.5 tires. If we inflated the tires to 110 LBS those six tires could support 24,000 LBS of weight. That's 6,000 LBS as a safety margin. You will wear your tires long before we will. TT's are built on the edge of destruction. I'll also bet that your combined carrying capacity of your three axles will just barely support the maximum weight as listed by the manufacturer. This is common throughout the TT industry. I have read many posts where TT owners with similar tire wear complaints can usually attribute it to bent axles.

We had a TT. It's max weight was 7,000 LBS. The two axles were rated at 3,000 LBS each or 6,000 LBS for the TT. With a tongue weight of 600 LBS we were only 400 LBS overloaded. That's built on the edge of destruction. There is no other way of looking at it. We had 3 TT's and switched back to a MH.

Here was the other problem. The tires were also marginal. I asked to have 15" tires/rims installed and they said there was not enough room. With 14" tires you are limited to tires that just barely carry the weight.

TeJay

TeJay
__________________
TeJay Auto Instructor/4-yrs USAF/ Liz: RN/ WBGO 2014 Vista 30T/ F-53/CHF/5-Star/Koni * Bella & Izzy * Golden /Cocker mix/ Louie The Cat* All Retired
TeJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 12:14 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Langley. BC, Canada
Posts: 677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip426 View Post
Gil, give my parking lot maneuver a try some time , I was shocked the first time I saw what was going on , on my dual axle 5er.
You mean like in this photo of our trailer? This happened when pulling out of a very tight site and the tongue was being pulled at a sharp angle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeJay View Post
Yes, you will have some weird tire flexing around tight turns. TeJay
I can see how there will be some flex in the tires but sometimes, it not just the tires that flex as you can see in this photo. The off-camber tilt in the forward wheel is caused by flex in the axle and frame. On the right hand side, the rear tire was tilting the same amount. Frame and axle flex caused the wheels to tilt substantially off camber. I am guessing that in everyday towing, the wheels will flex in and out of camber somewhat. And I am guessing that the more the trailer moves harder to the right or left (as in sway, turning at speed, lane changing at speed, etc.) the more the axles/frame will flex from the lateral force. It's a bit unnerving to think about how much things might be flexing down there. That's a lot of axle flex to cause that much change in the camber....

Just throwing this out as a possible contribution to premature tire wear or failure. At some point, I am going to tie the left and right spring hangers together with tubing to minimize this. Mor/Ryde has a kit for this too.

__________________
Gil & Deb & Dougal the Springer Spaniel
2014 KZ Spree 262RKS & Ford F250 supercab V10 4x4 LB
Langley, B.C.
myredracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 03:20 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Pds47's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 260
Blog Entries: 1
It's all in the axles three axles wear the front axle tires the most as that is where most of the weight is carried the rear wears the next as both the front and rear slide in every turn. the center axle is in the goldielocks zone it just right...
__________________
Paul & Megan 2007 Neptune XL 36 PDQ REK Bilsteins, KarKaddy,mini cooper, W/ Bear and Sedona
Pds47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 03:30 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Steve N Sal's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,614
Some friends of ours had to have their axles alligned on their 5er. Had it done and everything now is good to go.
__________________
Steve & Sally / HiTee & Hudson Our Little Poms / Heidi & Houston Forever in our Hearts
04 NEWMAR MACA 3778 W22 / 05 PT Vert
Michigan (Summer) Michigan (Winter For Now)
Steve N Sal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 09:47 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lowell, Arkansas
Posts: 4,684
myredracer,
Your point about axle and frame flexing is a good point and I understand what your are saying and what is happening. That's part of my point. The TT industry does not build/supply a solid enough frame or axle to withstand the forces placed on the unit. I've said it 100 times. These units are built on the edge of destruction and this is how it manifests itself with uneven tire wear, bent axles etc. You mentioned placing some hangers to reduce the amount of flex. That's probably a good idea. Even on MH's there sometime is not enough additional items, (anti-sway bars, track bars etc) to keep things from effecting the handling. Our current MH has a front and rear anti-sway bar and a front track bar. I am going to build and add a rear track bar. That will reduce the sideways play in the frame and spring movement. It attaches from the frame to the rear differential. That is what those hangers would also probably do.

That said, why should you spend a lot of time and $$$$ with these fixes?? Shouldn't the industry try to fix or prevent some of these things from happening. After all they have a lot more buying power than we have and can sure do it cheaper. Why not offer it as an option for those that want a better quality unit???

TeJay
__________________
TeJay Auto Instructor/4-yrs USAF/ Liz: RN/ WBGO 2014 Vista 30T/ F-53/CHF/5-Star/Koni * Bella & Izzy * Golden /Cocker mix/ Louie The Cat* All Retired
TeJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 01:12 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Langley. BC, Canada
Posts: 677
Tejay,

I've read many of your posts now and you seem to have a very good grasp of what's going on the TT industry and you say it like it is. It's refreshing to see that and your candor is appreciated. You said "These units are built on the edge of destruction". I totally agree. But they sure *look* pretty on the dealer's lot or at a show. Unfortunately, very few know what's under the skin on these things, at least in the beginning.

After what we've been through on our unit this year, I am dismayed, disappointed, disillusioned and disgusted (along with a few other adjectives) to find out what nearly all of the manufacturers are really doing. Frames often are barely able to support the just UVW listed by the factory and before it leaves the factory. Go sight down some of the I-beams out there and see how much sag there is. Go google "frame cracks" and see how often that happens. With a background in building construction (as an engineer) I know that you'd never get away with the I-beam loads and frame design like in a trailer. Why on earth do they do this? I'd rather pay a weight penalty of a hundred lbs, or whatever it would be, for a stronger frame. Presently, after only using our TT for maybe around 700-800 miles this season, the I-beams have excessive sag and are now curved like a banana from side to side. The frame design we have is used on 2 other brands/models that I know of so far. There's no design standards, inspection process, or any authority you can complain to. The trailer and frame manufacturers get away with doing what they want with no repercussions and accountability.

There are a lot of trailers out there that weigh substantially more than the listed dry weights. Add your own cargo (sewer stuff, BBQ, clothes, food, etc.) and you can be right up near the GVWR (like us). Tow with just one full tank of water and you can be overloaded. Some have even reported under-rated axles and tires based on the unit's GVWR. If a TT is actually overloaded, the situation is even worse.

A couple of weeks after we took possession of our trailer, the gov't designated inspection facility we took it too found that the plastic bushings in the spring hangers are worn out (among other problems). Hard to believe! The 2,000+ mile trip from the plant to the dealer wore the bushings out. Why would they put such cheap cr*p in? I *think* worn bushings may cause alignment problems and contribute to excessive left/right movement in the tires resulting in premature tire wear or failure. I wonder how many owners out there have worn out bushings on a fairly new unit and don't know??

Our tires already have 2,000+ miles of wear on them from the delivery trip from the plant before we even began to use the TT. I have doubts as to whether the driver kept under 65mph or otherwise treated them correctly. Why should a buyer be forced to accept "used" tires?? That's just wrong... Some say to replace your ST tires at 5,000 miles so we have tires that are nearly 1/2 used? Anyone on the west coast that gets a unit from Indiana is going to have this happen.

Here's another thing. Our manufacturer offers G/Y Marathon tires as an upgrade option. I asked the dealer why anyone would want to do that and they said they didn't know! Come on, really? (Hint - to go from C to D)

When you start looking into all this sort of stuff, you can begin to see why there are so many tire problems. The first reaction of a lot of owners is to blame the their "Ch*nese junk" tires when in fact, the problems begin with the RV manufacturer. I doubt I will see an improvement to the above issues in my lifetime. Probably will never happen unless the gov't steps in and mandates changes. FWIW, the same goes for payload capacities on tow vehicles and WDHs.

We're going to our local fall RV show on the weekend. I'll be the strange guy there crawling around underneath trailers! I now have a lot better idea what to look for in a TT and it ain't the pretty colors, lovely interior layout or number of slides or any of the other usual bling they flog.

BTW, what is the best ST tire to get?? It'd be easier to go nail jello to a wall.
__________________
Gil & Deb & Dougal the Springer Spaniel
2014 KZ Spree 262RKS & Ford F250 supercab V10 4x4 LB
Langley, B.C.
myredracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 08:39 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lowell, Arkansas
Posts: 4,684
myredracer,
Thanks for the kind words. I sometimes think I'm alone on these issues. That was a great post pointing out the same issues that we went through with TT's. If you've read my posts you know that we had a 1999 DSMH that we traded for a TT back in 2010. That's when my steep learning curve started with TT's and the stuff that they produce. It took us almost 4 years and three TT's before we switched back to a MH. I do enjoy solving problems and working on our campers and perhaps that's why my eyes were somewhat closed at first. We got our first TT and before we left home the water tank sagged 7". It just had the water that the dealer put in it to test the systems. When I asked questions or posted I got answers like: well most of them sag, or all my TT straps sag, it's designed that way so when the tank sags it will support it. The best was, We never travel with water in our tanks. The manufacturer recommends that you never keep much water in the tanks. Only keep enough to travel to your destination then hook into city water. Always dump before getting back on the road. Our second TT was better as far as layout and room but awful frame flex.
As I said I love to putter on these things and so I did. New TOYO bearings to replace the china junk, bought, balanced and installed the highest rated tire that would fit on the 14" rims, design build and install shock absorber mounts and shocks. Reinforce equalizer jacks on the 4 corners because even with them down they were so flimsy the jacks flexed when people moved inside. Why would you build and install an electric support jack system that flexed when subjected to weight shifting? That's just stupid.
I think the best comments I got when going through all of this was about shocks. After I installed the shocks and realized what a difference proper installation (close to vertical instead of almost horizontal) and decent shocks made I posted the results. One poster insisted that, " If TT's needed shocks they would come from the factory with them. You never ride in your TT so why install shocks?? I'll save my $$ and buy something I really need instead of wasting it on something like shocks that I don't need. You are wasting your time with that junk."
I asked him to list one other manufactured product that travels our highways in great numbers that does not have shock absorbers. Exclude boat trailers because I believe that's where the TT industry got a lot of their ideas. In reality since shocks reduce TT roll and sway the need for anti-sway hitches might be reduced or somewhat less with good shocks installed. We'll probably never know.
Just last week I helped a guy pack his wheel bearings in his Big Country 5-ver. It was 38' long with 4 slides. The shocks were almost horizontal while the springs moved vertically. He bought his unit 2012 for $50,000.

Since you are looking have you considered a MH??? I know it's camper preference but we will never go back to a TT of any sorts. On the other hand there are some better built TT out there. I was told buy an honest dealer that Jayco builds a better unit. When you go to the camper shows get a digital caliper and measure the thickness of some of those frames that you crawl under. You can get one at HF for about $15.

TeJay
__________________

__________________
TeJay Auto Instructor/4-yrs USAF/ Liz: RN/ WBGO 2014 Vista 30T/ F-53/CHF/5-Star/Koni * Bella & Izzy * Golden /Cocker mix/ Louie The Cat* All Retired
TeJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.