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Old 12-17-2013, 10:06 AM   #29
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Balance them both at the same time by putting Dynabeads in the tire. That will balance them all the time!
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:17 AM   #30
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Dunner,
I have spin balanced many a tire on the vehicle. We even did the rear tires using the engine to spin them. That was a Hunter Spin Balancer. We used it for many years. As the wheel spun it had to involve any imbalances, if there were any with the drum/rotor.

With the advent of the computer balancer I doubt you'll see any of the on-the-car spin balancers being used. If you get right down to it the old bubble balancers were very accurate if used correctly. The correct way was to take 4 weights usually of equal size. Place them in sets of two directly across from each other and 90 degrees from the light spot on the tire. Then move the weight toward the light spot until the bubble is centered. Place one weight at each spot where you stopped. Then place the other weight on the inside of the rim in the same location as the first weight. You could use 4 two LB weights and achieve the same results. You are only concerned about how much of the weight is needed to put the bubble in the center.

We never purchased the on-the-car machine for rotors. They were very expensive for HS to buy. I did seen it demonstrated. To the best of my knowledge there were/are not that many manufacturers that required the rotors to be machined while on the vehicle. I think they decided after several years to again make it easier on the technicians to simply design a system so the rotor could be removed for machining.

TeJay
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:17 AM   #31
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Photos, anyone?

My current TT has drums that are out of balance from 2 to 5.5 oz. I corrected mine. When you checked yours, what did you find?

Can't hardly wait for the photos.

Here is my shock installation:

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Old 12-17-2013, 10:36 AM   #32
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sswilson,
As far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on the Dynabeads. It's not that I don't believe there's some merit to the idea and I am always open to learning a better way to do something but!!!! I really believe if it was that good more 18-wheelers and other commercial applications would be using them. If a company can save $$$$ I think they would.

I had one experience with them and the stems got blocked the first time I checked the pressures and air started leaking out. I had 30 degree stems installed and they did not have ones long enough to install the special valve cores so the sand blocked the valve. Maybe the bigger beads would work but I'm still a little skeptical.

I was part of this story so I know it is an absolutely true story concerning what a school superintendent told our Transportation Superintendent. He said that the school district that he just came from bought sets of 3 magnets ($200 a set) and placed them around the fuel lines and it improved the fuel mileage of the buses. So without even checking with anybody (no he didn't call me) our idiot superintendent spent $14,000 and put them on 70 buses. That was probably 15 years ago and as far as I know they are still using them. The tech that installed them told me and my bus had them on there as well.

Do they work to save fuel mileage???? Heck no!!!! If it had any remote possibility of working there's a simple way of doing it. Anybody who works on cars knows there is a magnetic field right inside the alternator. The auto industry could just run the fuel line through the alternator, align the fuel molecules (that's what THEY say it does) and improve fuel mileage.

TeJay
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:44 AM   #33
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Very, very nice job on the shock mounts. I installed some on our first TT but I don't know where the pics are. If I find them I'll post them.

I spent about $125 on my set up. Did all the work myself it was just the cost of the shocks. There are several others that have done that as well over on the FR forums.

Did you notice much improvement with ride or sway control. If you can reduce the effect of road dips it has to help with sway control. Because most TT's use the straight axles I'm almost of the opinion that a lot of trailer sway is due to the fact that there is usually nothing to control the sway and roll of the TT as it encounters road dips, bumps etc.

Our last TT had the Dexter Tor-Flex independent axles and they were much, much better than the straight axle trailers. We traded it for our MH so I never had the chance to install shocks.

Whats the long yellow bar running across the top of the axles???? Is it how you attached the top of the shocks to your frame???

Again that was a quality install.

TeJay
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:00 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeJay View Post
sswilson,
As far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on the Dynabeads. It's not that I don't believe there's some merit to the idea and I am always open to learning a better way to do something but!!!! I really believe if it was that good more 18-wheelers and other commercial applications would be using them. If a company can save $$$$ I think they would.

I had one experience with them and the stems got blocked the first time I checked the pressures and air started leaking out. I had 30 degree stems installed and they did not have ones long enough to install the special valve cores so the sand blocked the valve. Maybe the bigger beads would work but I'm still a little skeptical.

I was part of this story so I know it is an absolutely true story concerning what a school superintendent told our Transportation Superintendent. He said that the school district that he just came from bought sets of 3 magnets ($200 a set) and placed them around the fuel lines and it improved the fuel mileage of the buses. So without even checking with anybody (no he didn't call me) our idiot superintendent spent $14,000 and put them on 70 buses. That was probably 15 years ago and as far as I know they are still using them. The tech that installed them told me and my bus had them on there as well.

Do they work to save fuel mileage???? Heck no!!!! If it had any remote possibility of working there's a simple way of doing it. Anybody who works on cars knows there is a magnetic field right inside the alternator. The auto industry could just run the fuel line through the alternator, align the fuel molecules (that's what THEY say it does) and improve fuel mileage.

TeJay
I see you used two different descriptions for what got stuck in your valve. You use the word Dynabeads and the word sand? Which did you use, as I have heard of people using everything from sand to plastic BBs from Walmart. Very small dynabeads could present a chance of blocking the stem but their suggestion if you do not install the special stem, is to put a bit of air in first to clear it. Dynabeads are not sand but ceramic beads. They are not the cheapest thing to buy and may not present a case of saving money for large trucks. Most trucks I see on highways really seem to have unbalanced tires on their trailers. I would imagine the sales job was not good enough to make trucking companies the early adopters. I certainly can't speak to their thoughts or reactions to this idea. I know that I was quite surprised when I put them in my M/C tires and "never" felt an imbalance from the moment I started off. I believe that they will continue to balance the tire thru any wear or tread damage, which will ultimately save me cash in the long run.

I am not in any way affiliated with this product but have become an early adopter, and am happy with them. I only suggested them because I feel that both an unbalanced tire and drum could be remedied in one product installation. The is also a green liquid slime out there that my friend used in his M/C tires. He swears by it but I am concerned about the mess if and when tire is removed. Dynabeads can be reused on tire exchanges.

To each their own.
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:42 AM   #35
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The Dynabeads make NO sense from an engineering/physics point of view. The explanation on their website makes NO sense. http://http://www.innovativebalancin...wItWorks2.html

Is there a proper study anywhere based on real science? If there's scientific evidence to show they work, I'd use them but I don't think there is any. As questioned everywhere, if they really do work, why aren't all the vehicle and tire manufacturers using them? Their website says you can't use a machine balancer to check if they are working. Of course they would say that.

Post #15 by a mechanical engineer and #17 & 21 on this forum thread make a lot of sense. http://http://www.advrider.com/forum...d.php?t=353020

Maybe this would be a good one for Mythbusters. For me, I say busted.
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:49 AM   #36
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Very, very nice job on the shock mounts. I installed some on our first TT but I don't know where the pics are. If I find them I'll post them.

I spent about $125 on my set up. Did all the work myself it was just the cost of the shocks. There are several others that have done that as well over on the FR forums.

Did you notice much improvement with ride or sway control. If you can reduce the effect of road dips it has to help with sway control. Because most TT's use the straight axles I'm almost of the opinion that a lot of trailer sway is due to the fact that there is usually nothing to control the sway and roll of the TT as it encounters road dips, bumps etc.

Our last TT had the Dexter Tor-Flex independent axles and they were much, much better than the straight axle trailers. We traded it for our MH so I never had the chance to install shocks.

Whats the long yellow bar running across the top of the axles???? Is it how you attached the top of the shocks to your frame???

Again that was a quality install.

TeJay
Thank You,

The long bar across the top provides for the top shock mount where I wanted it. Since the Lippert frame is incredibly weak, I attached it to all three hangers to help strengthen the frame a bit.

With under slung axles and the slideout shaft, I was limited to installing the shocks inboard, so I made the mounts for the bottom as well. These mounts also provide a jacking point so that the no jack needs to be placed under the unprotected axle. The dimwit at the PA state inspection station still wanted to raise the trailer by jacking it near the center of the axle. I left.

Handling and ride improved quite a bit, with the only negative effect is concrete slabs now make the trailer and truck move together and that increases that up and down feeling. Since I also took out most of the slop in the shackles, Equa-Flex and the hangers at the same time, that would have helped with the handling as well. You would not believe how bad the suspension was fit up on this trailer. When I inquired about that subject, I found that Al-Ko provides the entire assembly and all the OEM does is slap in the six bolts.

If you look closely at the inside of the wheel you can see the balance weights to counteract the UNBALANCED drums. Of the 22 hubs I have had over the years, not one had any evidence of balancing, so I balanced all of them. Of the six travel trailers in my family not one of theirs was balanced.
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:53 AM   #37
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The Dynabeads make NO sense from an engineering/physics point of view. The explanation on their website makes NO sense. http://http://www.innovativebalancin...wItWorks2.html

Is there a proper study anywhere based on real science? If there's scientific evidence to show they work, I'd use them but I don't think there is any. As questioned everywhere, if they really do work, why aren't all the vehicle and tire manufacturers using them? Their website says you can't use a machine balancer to check if they are working. Of course they would say that.

Post #15 by a mechanical engineer and #17 & 21 on this forum thread make a lot of sense. http://http://www.advrider.com/forum...d.php?t=353020

Maybe this would be a good one for Mythbusters. For me, I say busted.
I agree. Every time you stop and start, the little buggers have to quickly find their home. How do they do that? Why do you want to be even further out of balance till the little buggers get there?
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:46 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myredracer View Post
The Dynabeads make NO sense from an engineering/physics point of view. The explanation on their website makes NO sense. http://http://www.innovativebalancin...wItWorks2.html

Is there a proper study anywhere based on real science? If there's scientific evidence to show they work, I'd use them but I don't think there is any. As questioned everywhere, if they really do work, why aren't all the vehicle and tire manufacturers using them? Their website says you can't use a machine balancer to check if they are working. Of course they would say that.

Post #15 by a mechanical engineer and #17 & 21 on this forum thread make a lot of sense. http://http://www.advrider.com/forum...d.php?t=353020

Maybe this would be a good one for Mythbusters. For me, I say busted.
Can't see where it says that you couldn't use a balancer to check beads on their website? Do not see why you couldn't? Checked your post #17 and # 21 on the forum for those opinions and questions. What about post #20 from the user that did his own experiment and found they worked.

There can be reasons that car manufacturers have not jumped on these yet. They already have the expensive equipment and weights could be cheap? Tire manufacturers could care less as they are hoping their tires wear out to sell new ones and they have nothing to do with rims balancing?

As I said "to each his own" but I am impressed with the outcome of the Dynabeads. Maybe you would be too if you tried them? Have a look at YouTube and search for dynabeads.
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:58 PM   #39
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When I had problems with my 600 miles tires on our new MH I took the two tires to a GY shop to have them look at them and maybe get one replaced under warranty. The guy there recommended the glass bead balancing sand. He has been very up front with me for many years so I had no reason to doubt him.

He put the sand in and when I took it to the alignment shop I stayed with the guy as he set the coach up. When he checked the tire pressure with the gauge he put the gauge on the stem pushed it in and said, "Ugh, The first thing you need to do is take that sand out and put it back into gravel lot outside where it belongs." I never told him about the beads. I guess the sand hit him when he checked it. He was very nice about it and we talked. He said this, "If your tire needs say 6-oz to be balanced and they put in 20-oz's what happens to the extra 14- oz's of sand???" He also questioned a guy that tried to get their shop to use it. When he asked him that same question all the guy said is, "I don't know what happens to the extra sand but it puts $$$$ in my pocket."

I realize that the Dynabeads are larger and would be less likely to stop up the valve core. I was somewhat apprehensive to leave the stuff in. If some how that sand caused me to have a low tire and it ruined the tire I'd be out a few hundred dollars. For now I'll stick with the lead weights.

TeJay
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Old 12-17-2013, 01:22 PM   #40
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Can you add shocks to any trailer ?
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Old 12-17-2013, 02:29 PM   #41
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When I had problems with my 600 miles tires on our new MH I took the two tires to a GY shop to have them look at them and maybe get one replaced under warranty. The guy there recommended the glass bead balancing sand. He has been very up front with me for many years so I had no reason to doubt him.

He put the sand in and when I took it to the alignment shop I stayed with the guy as he set the coach up. When he checked the tire pressure with the gauge he put the gauge on the stem pushed it in and said, "Ugh, The first thing you need to do is take that sand out and put it back into gravel lot outside where it belongs." I never told him about the beads. I guess the sand hit him when he checked it. He was very nice about it and we talked. He said this, "If your tire needs say 6-oz to be balanced and they put in 20-oz's what happens to the extra 14- oz's of sand???" He also questioned a guy that tried to get their shop to use it. When he asked him that same question all the guy said is, "I don't know what happens to the extra sand but it puts $$$$ in my pocket."

I realize that the Dynabeads are larger and would be less likely to stop up the valve core. I was somewhat apprehensive to leave the stuff in. If some how that sand caused me to have a low tire and it ruined the tire I'd be out a few hundred dollars. For now I'll stick with the lead weights.

TeJay
Understand your frustration with sand. I have heard that if the beads are not round, your tires can slowly be damaged on the inside. Very poor sales guy that would say that he didn't know where the extra weight would go ( if he actually said that). Logically no reason to put more beads than required but, if you do, they should spread out throughout the circumference of the tire still keeping it balanced. Ultimately it would add the weight to the tire but it will still be balanced. What I consider a bonus is that even tire manufacturers have loop holes in warranty based on periodic balancing (because of dynamics, tire wear, tread damage, etc). Dynabeads should balance out these changes because they are not static and will move where required?

Did you remove the sand when the alignment shop told you too or have you driven on these tires with it in and working to balance? Just wondering? I generally will not 100% accept and adopt opinions of other people without more investigation. That is why I tried them and am satisfied. The beads I use on my motorcycle would not come out if someone was checking the pressure. They could somewhat block the stem because I didn't install the block free ones. All I have to do is add a bit of air to clear before I check them.

Sorry for your experience.
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Old 12-17-2013, 02:43 PM   #42
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Dunner,
I have spin balanced many a tire on the vehicle. We even did the rear tires using the engine to spin them. That was a Hunter Spin Balancer. We used it for many years. As the wheel spun it had to involve any imbalances, if there were any with the drum/rotor.

TeJay
The on-car balancers I remember were low profile machines with a rough wheel that went against the tire. The tech affixed a device on the center of the wheel and as it spun, he would grab certain rings and turn them till the tire was balance. He would then read the weight settings and apply weights.
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