Community Forums

myredracer · 12-17-2013, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sswilson

Can't see where it says that you couldn't use a balancer to check beads on their website?

www.innovativebalancing.com/news.htm

On their FAQ page, go to "Can I put the tire on a balancer to see if it's working? Answer: "No." Interesting explanation why...

The only thing that matters on something like this would be a certified scientific-based test to prove that it works and why. I would put the beads in the same category as the tealight & flowerpot heater:

http://http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sc...st-8p-day.html

sswilson · 12-17-2013, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myredracer

www.innovativebalancing.com/news.htm

On their FAQ page, go to "Can I put the tire on a balancer to see if it's working? Answer: "No." Interesting explanation why...

The only thing that matters on something like this would be a certified scientific-based test to prove that it works and why. I would put the beads in the same category as the tealight & flowerpot heater:

http://http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sc...st-8p-day.html

I see that now but I can't speak to their response as the word physics is in it. I must say that I think they would not have put that question on there if they didn't feel they had a feasible answer for it. If you go to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq263...e_gdata_player

you will see a demo on how they work in an off balance spinning bottle. I would think that would be very much like using a balancer?

Again, I am pleased with the result and will continue to use them.

myredracer · 12-17-2013, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossy cat

Can you add shocks to any trailer ?

Yes. It may be a little more challenging on some than others. If you are mechanically inclined, it's not terribly difficult. You can always get a shop to do welding if needed.

Monroe used to make a complete set of upper and lower brackets and shocks. The shocks are readily available. The lower brackets are hard to find but still out there. The upper brackets are NLA. Mobile Outfitters (Lippert) also makes a complete kit. I think there's another one but the name escapes me at the moment.

Monroe has a plate that can be used for the lower mount if your axles are on top of the springs. The top mount is trickier and depends if your frame is an I-beam or C-channel and which way the C-channel faces. Gas lines, slide shafts, etc. can complicate it. Sometimes tires are too close to the frame for the shock. Some info here: http://http://www.shockwarehouse.com...n_retrokit.cfm

If you have a BAL/Norco Ultraframe, I don't know if you can do it or not. You can't weld to their frame and I am guessing that there are restrictions on drilling holes.

I love the setup that Lynnmor did. It's more elaborate than needed in most cases but he needed to re-enforce the frame plus he needed to extend the lower mount closer to the ground. I'm planning on adding shocks to our TT in the new year when the weather is better. I've also got a set of the Dexter E-Z Flex equalizers to install. The Trail-Air ones that came with our TT are terrible and the plastic bushings were all shot before we even started camping with it. We've got the same TT as Lynnmor and Lippert makes the frame with special rubberized steel and it's very bendy...

Since you asked about suspension related stuff, if you do install some shocks and want to improve the suspension further, you can tie the spring hangers together from side to side. You can fabricate something yourself or buy the Mor/Ryde crossmember kit: http://http://www.morryde.com/afterm...r-ryde-60.html I want to do this modification in addition to shocks.

TeJay · 12-17-2013, 03:21 PM

Mossy cat,
As myredracer stated it's not to difficult to mount shocks. You could cut some of the brackets with a hacksaw if necessary. I still have access to a shop at the HS which has metal band saws and welders.

I've gone through the design stuff and here are a few ideas to save you some time.

When I was doing my first shock retrofit I looked for brackets. Monroe did make them but have stopped. I did call the Monroe people to get a recommendation on a shock.

Y0ou need a shock that will control compression (when you hit a bump) and rebound (after the spring compressed from hitting the bump and tires to take it's original arched shape.)

You also have to consider the weight you are trying to dampen. If you go to the Monroe web sight I recall there was some information related to designing a shock system for things like race cars, off-road vehicles etc.

The shock needs to be mounted as close to vertical as possible. That means the more vertical the shock the shorter it will usually have to be.

Next is how shocks are mounted. There are two ways to mount shocks and you want only one way. Some shocks have a threaded stem coming out of either the top or bottom or both. That requires 2 metal concave washers, a rubber grommet and a nut. This set-up is for shocks that are almost vertical to the suspension movement. That's not very practical.

The second attaching method is what you want. Shocks that have a through bolt both top and bottom. If you visualize how the shock has to move to do its job it will make sense.

Mounting the bottom of the shock is somewhat easy. You have 4 bolts that hold the brake backing plate to the axle flange. If you take the drum off you will see those 4 bolts. Design a bracket that will fit onto 3 of those bolts on the inside of the backing plate. You will have to get longer bolts because of the bracket (1/4") thickness.) A mounting bolt can be affixed to the bracket which is bolted to the brake backing plate.

You'll just have to crawl under your unit and design a bracket. It's really not that hard. I would first make it out of stiff cardboard. Once you think you've got it made correctly make one out of 1/4" wooden paneling. Once you've got that done it's simple to take it to a shop and ask them to make you four of them just like what you made. Just remember front and rear left and right. that may play into the design.

The top shock mount will depend on your TT. I'd try not to rely on welding to the existing frame if possible. I simply designed a top mount bracket, used one existing hole in the frame and drilled one more. If you do drill holes into the frame to mount your top bracket if you drill say 2-3 holes into the frame make a matching piece of metal and put it on the inside next to the frame before you put the nuts on. Backing it up that way will maintain the strength of the frame.

Best of luck and if you think you need any more ideas or help just PM me and I'll give you a call. I love designing stuff like this. I should have been a mechanical engineer instead of a shop teacher. But that was fun as well. Since I retired in 2010 all I do is build stuff and it's great fun.

TeJay

caissiel · 12-17-2013, 03:35 PM

I had to install tie frame angles as MoreRyde has on all the 6 mounts of our previous unit. The mounts were welded to the tubular frame and moved. In order to keep axle alignment the 2 1/2 angles were welded to the mounts and frame. So the frame was reinforced while the axles stayed in line
Shocks on trailers need to be at 60deg from horizontal to work. I had to move mine that were at 30deg on the present Lippert frame unit. The mounts are solid on the I-Beam frame. Alignment is great after 5 years.

lynnmor · 12-17-2013, 04:18 PM

To tie the spring hangers together, I made trusses. They are bolt in so that they can be removed if work needs done in the water tank area.

TeJay · 12-17-2013, 06:24 PM

lynmor,
Wow another very nice job. What did or do you do for a living??? On your first picture you did not have the red suspension stiffeners installed. It looks like they would work similar to a track rod on a MH. You tie the springs together to limit/reduce suspension side to side movement. Last April as we were heading back to AR I already had the shock mounts designed in my head and was working on something to reduce side to side spring movement but again the DW decided that we should look at trading the 2014 TT in on a 2014 WBGO MH and that's what we did.

It's really to bad that you buy a TT and because everything is built on the edge of destruction if you want longevity and a decent trailer to pull you have to do all this work. I really don't understand why they don't offer some of these upgrades as options for those that don't have the tools and talent to do it themselves.

When we were ordering our second TT (7,000 LB loaded) I asked if we could have 15" tires and 4,500 axles installed instead of the the standard 3,000 lb axles and the 14" tires. I was willing to pay for the upgrade but they said that they wouldn't fit. I checked after we got the unit and I know that the axles would have fit with room to spare.

Your rig should pull very nicely with all the upgrades. I'm interested in the effect of the suspension stiffeners.

TeJay

lynnmor · 12-18-2013, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeJay

lynmor,
Wow another very nice job. What did or do you do for a living???

It's really to bad that you buy a TT and because everything is built on the edge of destruction if you want longevity and a decent trailer to pull you have to do all this work. I really don't understand why they don't offer some of these upgrades as options for those that don't have the tools and talent to do it themselves.

Your rig should pull very nicely with all the upgrades. I'm interested in the effect of the suspension stiffeners.

TeJay

I own and operate a small tool & die shop. I've cut back the work load and am currently semi-retired.

Yes, the current crop of TT's are indeed built "on the edge of destruction." Mine was a little worse than that as it was over the edge and actually was coming apart. The red parts were installed to minimize side to side flexing of the frame "I-beams." The beams are just sheet metal resistance welded together to simulate a real I-beam.... junk! The frame was cracking, where the cross members were welded, from all the flexing.

Another issue is the spring shackles. they are made of 5mm cheap steel instead of 1/4" alloy steel. Those thin plates add another .108" additional clearance for the springs. The holes are punched in the shackle plates, not drilled, resulting in a tapered hole. The taper doen't engage the flutes on the spring bolt very well and mine were coming loose shortly after I bought it. I made all new parts that are correct.

My axles were bent from new. Warranty was useless as I had no support from the dealer or the factory. I replaced the axles, wheels and tires with much better stuff.

I could write a book on this, the worst purchase decision of my life, but photos are even better.

lynnmor's's Library | Photobucket

TeJay · 12-18-2013, 07:19 AM

lynmore,
I looked at all your photos. Wow what a large list of fixes you had to do. I did many of the same fixes to our TT's until we decided to move back to a MH. It was back in 2010 that the DW suggested that we trade our 1999 Dutch Star MH in on an F-150 truck and a TT. I had not a clue how poorly made the TT's were. We went through 3 TT's in 4 years before we decided to go back to a MH. Our second TT was totaled on its maiden voyage by a dump truck. We bought another one just like it, took it to FL one time and traded it in on the MH.

Look at your experiences with your TT this way. What else are you going to do with your time except fix things?? I'm constantly building and fixing stuff. But I enjoy it as you must. Yes it can get to be a chore at times.

You and yours have a blessed and Merry Christmas.

TeJay