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Old 07-07-2009, 04:54 AM   #1
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Stopped up black tank

Has anyone been able to unclog a stopped up black water tank?

A dealer tells me that I have a "dry tank" and it cannot be fixed and a
new tank is the only way! About $600.00 for replacement.

Am I being hosed over this?
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:26 AM   #2
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I have never heard that term.Perhaps they can explain what that(dry tank)means.Seems rather extreme to replace the tank.
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:28 AM   #3
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tiger63
I don't have any answers for you but you might try the below method. You will probably need LOTS of time. If the tank is really dryed up with lots of Yuk, it will probably need time to loosen up. I was thinking that if you used a large amount compared to what they recomend maybe it would eventually soften up. It won't cost $600 if it works. Good Luck and let us know how it turns out.

(Black and Gray Water Holding Tank Maintenance

The Geo Method

By Charles Bruni
cbruni@mindspring.com
Renton, Washington
U.S.A.

Everyone who owns an RV should be concerned with maintaining its wastewater tanks. Problems with wastewater tanks can and should be avoided. Wastewater tank repair is expensive. Due to health concerns, many service facilities will not work on wastewater tanks and lines until the tanks have been completely emptied and sanitized. This may be quite difficult when the tank(s) is in need of repair. So, common sense dictates that the tanks should be kept relatively clean at all times. Additionally, improper use of the wastewater tanks can lead to a build up of solid wastes, which in itself may cause the system to fail.

I've discovered very simple, effective, and inexpensive methods of maintaining my wastewater tanks in a relatively clean condition at all times. I developed these methods myself through my understanding of chemistry, physics, and biology with a smidgen of common sense thrown in for good measure. I also read my RV owner's manual. Although we are not full time RVers we use our fifth wheel camper at least one weekend a month. We never use public bathing and toilet facilities. In other words, our wastewater tanks are fairly heavily used. Since I've met a number of RVers who don't seem to know how to maintain their wastewater tanks I thought many RVers would find my tips useful. If you have not been maintaining your tanks I believe you will be pleasantly surprised the first time you employ these tips. I do these things and they work.

RVs are equipped with waste water HOLDING tanks; NOT septic tanks. Those holding tanks are nothing more than chamber pots. Chamber pots should be cleaned and sanitized after their contents are disposed of. The Geo Method is based on this fact.


1. DUMP A FULL TANK

When you are camping and your RV is connected to a sewer/septic intake, leave the drain valves closed until the tank is full and ready to dump. Dumping a full tank provides a sufficient quantity of water to flush solids from the tank. Leaving the drain valves open allows the water to drain off without flushing out solid waste. That solid waste will collect in the tank(s) and cause problems over time. If your tanks are not full when you are ready to dump them, fill them with fresh water first, and then dump them.


2. DUMP TANKS IN ORDER FROM DIRTIEST TO CLEANEST

In other words, dump the black (commode) water tank first, then dump the galley tank, then dump the bathroom tank. This way you will be flushing out the dirtiest water with progressively cleaner water.


3. USE WATER SOFTENER, DETERGENT, and CHLORINE BLEACH

This stuff is amazing and it works. Buy a couple of boxes of powdered water softener at the grocery store. You'll find it located with or near the laundry detergent products. I prefer Calgon Water Softener because it dissolves quickly in water. Cheaper water softeners work just as well but dissolve more slowly. Dissolve two (2) cups of the water softener in a gallon of hot water. Then, pour the solution down the drain into the empty tank. Use two cups of softener for each wastewater tank in your RV. The tank's drain valve should be closed otherwise the softened water will just drain out. Then use the tank(s) normally until it is full and drain it normally. Add a cup of laundry detergent to the black (commode) water tank at the same time you add water softener. This will help clean the tank. The gray water tanks should already contain soap through normal use.

The water softener makes the solid waste let go from the sides of the tanks. If you've ever taken a shower in softened water you know that after rinsing the soap from your body your skin will feel slick. That's because all the soap rinses away with soft water. Softened water also prevents soap scum from sticking in the tub. Get the connection? With softened water gunk washes away instead of sticking. The same thing applies to your RV's wastewater tanks.

I use a clear plastic elbow connector to attach my sewer drain line to the wastewater outlet on my RV. It allows me to see how well things are progressing during a wastewater dump. Before I began using water softener regularly the black water tank's water was brown, the galley tank's water was brownish, and the bathroom tank's water was white. The first time I added water softener to the tanks the water coming from the black water tank was actually black (not brown) and the kitchen tank's water was also black (not brownish). The bathroom tank's water remained white. That told me that the water softener had actually done what I had intended for it to do and made solid waste, which had been stuck to the interior of the tanks, let go and drain away. I added water softener (and laundry detergent to the black tank) to all the wastewater tanks for the next few dumps to be certain all the solid waste possible had been cleaned away. The wastewater only appeared black on the initial treatment. I now add water softener and detergent to each tank once after every few dumps to maintain the system.

Too little water softener may not be of sufficient concentration to work effectively. Too much water softener will NOT hurt the tanks. So, if the amount you used didn't quite do the job, then use more the next time. Don't forget the laundry detergent.

Occasionally, I pour a half gallon of liquid bleach into each tank to deodorize, sanitize and disinfect them. I add the bleach when the tank is about half full, and then continue to use the tank normally until it is full and ready to dump. I no longer use the blue toilet chemical because it isn't necessary. I have no odors coming from my black water tank. The chlorine bleach kills the bacteria, which is primarily responsible for waste water tank odor. Generic brand liquid bleach is cheap and very effective.


4. USE A WATER FILTER ON YOUR FRESH WATER INTAKE LINE

Most fresh water contains sediment. Sediment will accumulate in your wastewater tanks and your fresh water lines. It also tends to discolor your sinks, tub/shower, and commode. I use the disposable type and have found that they eventually fill up and begin restricting the fresh water flow resulting in low pressure. That's how I know it's time to get a new filter. It works, it's cheap, it avoids problems, do it. When I fill my fresh water tank I attach the filter to the end of the hose and fill the tank with filtered water.


SOME OTHER THOUGHTS

WATER, WATER, WATER - and more water! The Geo Method assumes you are hooked up to a plentiful clean water supply, and that you have access to a sewer. The water softener will make the gunk let go. That's only half the battle. After the gunk lets go it must then be flushed through the relatively small drain opening in the bottom of the tank. That takes water. Lots of water.

Will The Geo Method work even if most of the time I'm NOT hooked up to water and sewer? YES! Just use common sense. If you dry camp ninety percent of the time just keep water softener and detergent in your tanks (especially the black tank) while you're dry camping. This will keep gunk from sticking to the tanks. When you are hooked up to sewer and water take the opportunity to fill the tanks with fresh water and flush the tanks. Keep flushing them until the water runs clear. I know it works because I've done it.

Never put regular toilet tissue in your RV's black tank. Only use toilet tissue which is approved for RV and/or septic tank use. Regular toilet tissue may eventually dissolve, but not before causing a clog in your black tank.

I believe occasionally traveling with partially filled wastewater tanks that contain softened water promotes cleaning by agitating the water. The same goes for chlorine bleach.

I believe this process works faster and more efficiently during warm weather. However, I know it works well even during cool/cold weather.

I believe the process works best the longer the water softener remains in the tanks. So, I don't add water softener during periods of heavy wastewater generation. I wait until I know we won't be generating wastewater quickly so that the softened water remains in the tanks for several days before dumping.

If you have an older RV you may have to use water softener and detergent several times initially to completely clean the tanks of residue.


I add a small amount of chlorine bleach to the fresh water tank twice a year to disinfect and sanitize the fresh water tank and fresh water lines. A weak chlorine bleach solution will not hurt you. However, it certainly makes the water taste bad. When we have chlorine in the fresh water system we use bottled water for drinking and cooking until the chlorine is gone. YES, we drink the filtered water that we have in the fresh water tank. NO, it has never tasted funny or caused any problems.

No, I do NOT do the ice cube thing. The Geo Method works just fine without ice cubes.

My tanks are plastic and my pipes are PVC.

Don't be afraid to use your tanks. Just use common sense about their care and maintenance.

These tips are inexpensive to do. Some of them don't cost anything. You have nothing to lose in trying them and I encourage you to do so. I actually feel a certain amount of pride in the condition and cleanliness of both my waste and fresh water systems. Naturally, these tips make dumping a much more pleasant and sanitary procedure.

If you have odors in any of your water systems these procedures should eliminate them. Odors indicate a sanitary problem and degrade the enjoyment you derive from your RV.

When my RV is parked and not in use I place stoppers in the sink and tub drains. This forces the wastewater tanks to vent through the vent pipes to the outside instead of through the drains into the RV. Water evaporates. Once the drain traps dry out during periods of non-use, nothing is there to prevent gasses (odor) from venting into the camper. Use stoppers when your RV is stored.

copyright(c) 2004 Charles Bruni
__________________________________________________ _____________

Please consider printing this information and posting it on bulletin boards in RV parks and campgrounds you visit. Fellow RVers will benefit from your consideration.
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Visit The GeoMethod Homepage & Blog )
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Old 07-08-2009, 08:51 PM   #4
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Forget the homebrew stuff that likely will never work anyway. I have used a twist-on valve and a RV hydro-flush fitting. Mated together with the RV hydro-flush on your sewer outlet, then the twist-on valve. This way you may use a water hose to pressurize your sewer plumbing (be sure to open the RV's black tank dump valve first). Use a water pressure regulator to reduce water pressure to about 35psi or less to avoid valve damage or blowing too much water too quickly into the tank when the blockage eventually gives way. I can't guarantee this will work every time but it did the one time I tried it. These fittings may be purchased from RVUpgrades.com, one of this forums sponsors.

If you are hesitant to try this there is another possibility. TST heavy duty cleaner, it is used commonly to loosen and remove wallpaper, but does a good job of cleaning black/grey holding tanks too. Keep in mind that everything you put in the tank must come out. Once you get the blockage opened, even slightly, then you can add plenty of water and TST to soak things to a more liquid state. Whatever you decide, do not add drain cleaner (acid or caustic) to the tank. Plumbers and service people will not be pleasant or forgiving.
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Old 07-09-2009, 12:01 PM   #5
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I dont know the name of the stuff, but there is something that dealers use to clean out dried up tanks. It is some kind of a chemical that they let sit for awhile.
Call around and ask someother dealers what they use.
It might or might not work.
Mike
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Old 07-09-2009, 12:50 PM   #6
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I would call this guy http://www.hildaleenterprises.com/ he gives seminars at some of the FMCA rallies. There is a phone number at his site.
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Old 07-09-2009, 01:52 PM   #7
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You said "Clogged up" please describe what you mean by that

You can get a porta-potty company to pump it out for you, that gets it nearly dry, then it's gloves (Visit a vet) and bucket to clear the dump line. if that's the problem

If the problem is a lot of dried up crud in the tank.. Then others have already made suggestions and I'll not add to that.
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:52 AM   #8
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update to my reply:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray,in View Post
forget the homebrew stuff that likely will never work anyway. I have used a twist-on valve and a rv hydro-flush fitting. Mated together with the rv hydro-flush on your sewer outlet, then the twist-on valve. This way you may use a water hose to pressurize your sewer plumbing (be sure to open the rv's black tank dump valve first). Use a water pressure regulator to reduce water pressure to about 35psi or less to avoid valve damage or blowing too much water too quickly into the tank when the blockage eventually gives way. i forgot an important step. Use the on/off valve on the hydro-flush judiciously to avoid blowing it off the sewer connection. Just enough flow to fill the plumbing and create slight water pressure. i can't guarantee this will work every time but it did the one time i tried it. These fittings may be purchased from rvupgrades.com, one of this forums sponsors.

If you are hesitant to try this there is another possibility. Tst heavy duty cleaner, it is used commonly to loosen and remove wallpaper, but does a good job of cleaning black/grey holding tanks too. Keep in mind that everything you put in the tank must come out. Once you get the blockage opened, even slightly, then you can add plenty of water and tst to soak things to a more liquid state. Whatever you decide, do not add drain cleaner (acid or caustic) to the tank. Plumbers and service people will not be pleasant or forgiving.
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Old 07-11-2009, 06:58 AM   #9
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I dont know the name of the stuff, but there is something that dealers use to clean out dried up tanks. It is some kind of a chemical that they let sit for awhile.
Mike
The product name is probably RID-X. This product replenishes the little critters in the tank that reduce the solids into a liquid. The problem with a dry tank is exactly that - - one that has not been used and has dried up. If you have time on your side, get as much water into the tank as possible - -now it is no longer dry, just blocked. Add a generous amount of RID-X to the mix and let it sit for at least 2 weeks, preferrably a month. Then start your process of trying to break the mess loose. It may not be a pretty sight when it finally busts loose, but it certainly can be done. The water jet that is inside the drain line such as Sewer Solutions can be a great help on some rigs with short drain pipes. The jet can be turned to shoot up into the front of the tank and break loose the material right inside the tank. Once you can get it to open up a small drain hole, you can get the rest with continued treatment. Ask me how I know?

Bob

ps: I use RID-X regularly at the end of all trips before putting the rig in storage for more than two weeks. Keeps the tanks clean. I run a little into each drain also to keep the traps clean. It is a natural product and helps septic systems, not hurt them.
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Old 07-11-2009, 10:28 AM   #10
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We need to know the nature of the clog... I asked above but what is the problem

Toilet will not drain into tank
Tank will not drain into stinky slinkey to sewer

Tank has the old "Brown Pyramid" in it

Other

I know of one forum poster who had a tank that simply would not drain,, Well he worked, and he worked and finally got it empty and then he went after the problem

Took out a couple of "half moon" shaped pieces of wood

When they cut the hole in the floor of the motor home to install the toilet, they dropped the wood into the tank (So much easier than throwing it in the trash) he was able to remove the wood, seal it in a baggie or two (Double bag) and ... Retuned it to the manufacturer of the motor home.
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Old 07-11-2009, 11:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
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tiger63 . . . Never put regular toilet tissue in your RV's black tank. Only use toilet tissue which is approved for RV and/or septic tank use. Regular toilet tissue may eventually dissolve, but not before causing a clog in your black tank.
Your write-up is really great, I appreciate your taking the time to do it.
I agree with everything you say, except about the tissue. I have had some "RV approved" tissues that were worse than the old Life Magazine jokes, and had all the dissolving properties of a sheet of aluminum. Then there are others, the ones that dissolve while you're using them . . . !

There have been a couple threads on this, what I learned from them was that there are some regular commercial tissues that seem to work fine. At this point, we use the same thing we use at home - Costco. So far, this seems to be about the best we've run across, and as far as I can tell, does not contribute to plumbing problems.
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Old 07-11-2009, 09:01 PM   #12
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Sorry but I can't take credit for that info. I copied it from another post on this form. If you click on the Geo Method link at the bottom you will find all of that and more.
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Old 07-11-2009, 09:50 PM   #13
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Have used Scotts paper for years in all TT's and MH's just remember after you have cleaned out the problems use plenty of water when you flush and sewer valve closed, flush black tank with a full tank.
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Old 07-11-2009, 11:01 PM   #14
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I have been reading this post for four days and still not heard the OP define, "stopped up black water tank" or "dry tank" Would help to know exactly what he is writing about.
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