Time to upgrade

[PNDADNP]

Lifelong camper with family of 5 + a dog looking to upgrade to TT. Grew up tenting, then popup, then bunkhouse TT. Lots of backpacking, canoe camping, biking etc.

My DW and I have 3 boys (3, 8, and 10) and went from tent camping to a popup last year. Got out for about 20 nights and realized that we really would like the convenience of a hardside.

Just traded out our minivan for a Suburban to get some decent towing capacity and still have three rows to keep the boys separated while traveling/shuttling.

We will mostly be in state and national parks, so boondocking capability is definitely a priority. We also want 4 season capability as we live in New England and plan to travel with the trailer on some long trips (possibly full time). Maybe even a trip up to Alaska.

My DW definitely prefers the newer TTs with more updated upholstery and trim. I am open to used TTs to save money and get better quality since it seems like construction quality has definitely gone downhill the last 5+years. I am not afraid of some maintenance, but don’t want a trailer ruined due to a leak from poor construction.

The layout that we like the most our TT in the 23-26 box range (28-30ft hitch to bumper) with a separate bedroom up front, double bunks, U shaped dinette, and outdoor kitchen. In person, we have been able to look at Grand Design 2400BH, Winnebago 2455BHS, Coachmen 245 BHS, Cruiser 2400BH, Keystone Bullet 243BHS, Jayco 242BHS.

Out of those, our top choice is the GD 2400BH. We love the layout, which is unique, except for the 2019 Flagstaff 26BHWS (But I plan to stay away from Forest River products).

After reading the forums here, I now want to look at ORV (specifically 23DBS and the backcountry version) for the more durable construction, especially the off road 4x suspension.

The Lance 2185 layout isn’t what we would prefer, but may be willing to make that trade off if the Lance quality is worth it.

Have come across models from Pacific Coachworks, Palomino, Venture, and Highland Ridge that look like they have some of the features that we are looking for, but haven’t spent time yet to see if they have the insulation and quality we are looking for.

Am I missing anything? Any suggestions? Am I overthinking this?

[Nonnie KRC]

Love the Kodiak Ultimate 295TBHS. Plenty of room and well constructed. Worth checking out[emoji16]

[ModestMonk]

Originally Posted by PNDADNP

Lifelong camper with family of 5 + a dog looking to upgrade to TT. Grew up tenting, then popup, then bunkhouse TT. Lots of backpacking, canoe camping, biking etc.

My DW and I have 3 boys (3, 8, and 10) and went from tent camping to a popup last year. Got out for about 20 nights and realized that we really would like the convenience of a hardside.

Just traded out our minivan for a Suburban to get some decent towing capacity and still have three rows to keep the boys separated while traveling/shuttling.

We will mostly be in state and national parks, so boondocking capability is definitely a priority. We also want 4 season capability as we live in New England and plan to travel with the trailer on some long trips (possibly full time). Maybe even a trip up to Alaska.

My DW definitely prefers the newer TTs with more updated upholstery and trim. I am open to used TTs to save money and get better quality since it seems like construction quality has definitely gone downhill the last 5+years. I am not afraid of some maintenance, but don’t want a trailer ruined due to a leak from poor construction.

The layout that we like the most our TT in the 23-26 box range (28-30ft hitch to bumper) with a separate bedroom up front, double bunks, U shaped dinette, and outdoor kitchen. In person, we have been able to look at Grand Design 2400BH, Winnebago 2455BHS, Coachmen 245 BHS, Cruiser 2400BH, Keystone Bullet 243BHS, Jayco 242BHS.

Out of those, our top choice is the GD 2400BH. We love the layout, which is unique, except for the 2019 Flagstaff 26BHWS (But I plan to stay away from Forest River products).

After reading the forums here, I now want to look at ORV (specifically 23DBS and the backcountry version) for the more durable construction, especially the off road 4x suspension.

The Lance 2185 layout isn’t what we would prefer, but may be willing to make that trade off if the Lance quality is worth it.

Have come across models from Pacific Coachworks, Palomino, Venture, and Highland Ridge that look like they have some of the features that we are looking for, but haven’t spent time yet to see if they have the insulation and quality we are looking for.

Am I missing anything? Any suggestions? Am I overthinking this?

When it comes to trailers there is no perfect world. Something has to give to accommodate your needs vs. the manufacturers and dealers need to move their products. The more definitive you are, the more separation of your wallet. The prying open of your wallet or the separation of your resources seems to be....IMHO an industry that knows their customers to a T.

If you’re in the market for units in your area, within your price range and then you want to spec what works best for you, then you’ll need to be flexible. Some sort of trade off has to be in place just to get a new TT. Finding a used one, you’ll need to become more educated about ORV products, in the end you’ll become a qualified salesman.


You’re on the right track, you’ve found the path.

Good Luck!

[MSHappyCampers]

Hi ! Welcome to IRV2! We're sure glad you joined the gang!

Better get busy, you've got a lot of tire kicking to do!

Good luck, happy trails, and God bless!

[dexters]

Originally Posted by MSHappyCampers

Hi ! Welcome to IRV2! We're sure glad you joined the gang!

Better get busy, you've got a lot of tire kicking to do!

Good luck, happy trails, and God bless!

+1...

[dmatt13]

Welcome and good luck on the search!!

I can't comment on many of those that you listed like Jayco, Winnebago, Coachman only that they probably won't be true 4 season coaches. Yes they may have heated tanks, etc. but look closer at the build process and insulation.

However, the ORV and Lance will be, especially the ORV. Both are rated as well above the average build quality, but will still have minor issues. Lance is somewhat lighter overall than a comparable ORV unit, but as far as I've seen, still well built.

The ORV is really well insulated, builds their own frames and are true off road capable. Just look at their suspension with quality shocks all around. Their underside is completely enclosed and heated.

A couple weeks ago we were at a dealer that has both on their lot. The sales guy likes to haul off and slam his fist into the wall of the coach to show how sturdy it is constructed I will affirm that it was extremely solid......but not what I want the salesman doing to a unit I would buy and I told him so.

Another real good indication on how well the ORV is insulated with their 2" walls is that they stay cooler than the other brands they had on the lot. It was almost 90 degrees and sunny that afternoon. All the coaches were closed up, no windows open or a/c running.... We went into the Forest River units and quickly were extremely uncomfortable and hot. The Lance was somewhat cooler for sure, but after a little while in there you needed to open a window, or run the a/c.

However, the ORV units were noticeably much cooler!! So much so, that, while warm, it was not uncomfortable to remain in it for a length of time. I was quick shocked at the difference and convinced us that the an ORV model would be our first choice, then Lance. One of the reasons they do this well is that the slide out is also 2" think, just like the walls. Even the bottom of the slide out. Thermal pane windows throughout.

Just a note, check the weights carefully on the ORV, and to a lesser extent, the Lance. That solid constructions comes at a cost......weight! They are not "Lite" "Hyper-Lite" trailers. An quite frankly, you won't get well insulated 4 season coaches as "Lite".

Enjoy the search, it's half the fun!!

[Cumminsfan]

Whats your Burbs payload rating. With 3 kids and gear in the Burb you may not have enough payload for an ORV. Especially the TR 23DBS. word on the ORV forum is that the tongue weights are significantly higher than the brochure.

[PNDADNP]

Thanks to everyone for the input so far. The burb has a payload of 1643 and GCW of 14000. By my calculations, that should leave me with about 850 for tongue weight and 7000ish for the loaded trailer. Of coarse that maxes out the suburban's capabilities on paper. I am leaning towards a hensley/propride hitch, especially if we end up on the higher eight end. Second choice would be Blue Ox. The ORV 23BKS would probably be my top choice right now, and its dry weight is 5720 with a dry tongue weight of 680. I don't plan on towing with water in the tanks, never did that with my family growing up and haven't with our pop up either. It seems like I should be able to stay under payload with a hitch weight in the 10-11% range, but it would be cutting it close.

The Lance 2185 would definitely keep us well within our suburban's capacity, but we do prefer the ORV for sure. I would like to see ORVs numbers on the 2019 backcountry trx models, but figure they will be heavier than the 2017/18s since they have the generator and solar panels already.

[infowars]

We tow our ORV Creekside with a Chevy Avalanche. Basically a Suburban with a bed on it.


Our 23BHS (walkaround queen/no sofa) was advertised @ 5250 lbs.dry/6900 lbs. GVW.



When loaded for camping it weighs in around 6300lbs. which is the max I want to tow with the Avy.



The total combined weight is around 12,500 so I'm at my limit of 13000.


It tows fine and stops fine but I wouldn't want to travel with full tanks or pull anything heavier.



The ORV's are heavy but if you choose one of the shorter/lighter ones you should be fine with the Burb.


IMO the ORV's are well built & worth every penny.


Have fun in your search!

[ModestMonk]

Originally Posted by infowars

We tow our ORV Creekside with a Chevy Avalanche. Basically a Suburban with a bed on it.


Our 23BHS (walkaround queen/no sofa) was advertised @ 5250 lbs.dry/6900 lbs. GVW.



When loaded for camping it weighs in around 6300lbs. which is the max I want to tow with the Avy.



The total combined weight is around 12,500 so I'm at my limit of 13000.


It tows fine and stops fine but I wouldn't want to travel with full tanks or pull anything heavier.



The ORV's are heavy but if you choose one of the shorter/lighter ones you should be fine with the Burb.


IMO the ORV's are well built & worth every penny.


Have fun in your search!

I might tow with that back east, but I wouldn’t if I lived out west. I went up and down grades up to 12% on a regular basis on this 23,000 mile trek. I’m ready to embrace an upgrade to a heavier, bigger braked, and deisel Jake braked 3/4 or 1 ton.

[bneukam]

Originally Posted by dmatt13

Welcome and good luck on the search!!

I can't comment on many of those that you listed like Jayco, Winnebago, Coachman only that they probably won't be true 4 season coaches. Yes they may have heated tanks, etc. but look closer at the build process and insulation.

However, the ORV and Lance will be, especially the ORV. Both are rated as well above the average build quality, but will still have minor issues. Lance is somewhat lighter overall than a comparable ORV unit, but as far as I've seen, still well built.

The ORV is really well insulated, builds their own frames and are true off road capable. Just look at their suspension with quality shocks all around. Their underside is completely enclosed and heated.

A couple weeks ago we were at a dealer that has both on their lot. The sales guy likes to haul off and slam his fist into the wall of the coach to show how sturdy it is constructed I will affirm that it was extremely solid......but not what I want the salesman doing to a unit I would buy and I told him so.

Another real good indication on how well the ORV is insulated with their 2" walls is that they stay cooler than the other brands they had on the lot. It was almost 90 degrees and sunny that afternoon. All the coaches were closed up, no windows open or a/c running.... We went into the Forest River units and quickly were extremely uncomfortable and hot. The Lance was somewhat cooler for sure, but after a little while in there you needed to open a window, or run the a/c.

However, the ORV units were noticeably much cooler!! So much so, that, while warm, it was not uncomfortable to remain in it for a length of time. I was quick shocked at the difference and convinced us that the an ORV model would be our first choice, then Lance. One of the reasons they do this well is that the slide out is also 2" think, just like the walls. Even the bottom of the slide out. Thermal pane windows throughout.

Just a note, check the weights carefully on the ORV, and to a lesser extent, the Lance. That solid constructions comes at a cost......weight! They are not "Lite" "Hyper-Lite" trailers. An quite frankly, you won't get well insulated 4 season coaches as "Lite".

Enjoy the search, it's half the fun!!

Lance is the only manufacturer that will give you a detailed dry weight as you option out a new trailer on their website.

ORV used to be off on their dry weights listed on their web page. Units sitting on the lots were much heavier. Not sure if that has changed.

We camp with friends that own a ORV 21fqs. They have a 13.5k AC and we have a 9.2k A/C in a similar size unit, and they both run a lot on a very hot day. I wouldn’t say for sure one is better than the other. We do have a outside cover for that front window on the Lance which helps greatly, as a ton of heat comes through when the sun is on it.

ORV uses a lot of fiberglass batts in their trailers. Floors, ceiling, and front wall have it. It is a good choice for moderate temps, but rigid foam board will perform better at extreme temperature differences. Fiberglass batts will mold, sag, and is affected by moisture.

Not saying one is better than the other, because they both have their faults. But it is important to know how they are insulated and the longevity of such. But IMO fiberglass batts have no use in RV’s.

[tuffr2]

I am thinking ORV trailers will be too heavy when loaded for camping. If ORV is like Artic Fox the smallest unit with no slides has a GVWR of 7,500lbs. The next bigger trailer the GVWR is 10,000lbs. That is too too heavy for the tow vehicle.

I am not sure a family of 5 plus a dog can buy a hard sided trailer that has enough room and still be towed with the Suburban.

I would advise forgetting about ORV or Artic Fox and look at the Winnebago Mini and larger Mini Plus trailers. These trailers come in an optional color of Red, Blue, Yellow, Orange, Gray, and a few other colors. That is, to me, a super cool feature.

If two of the boys get along well enough they could still pal up in a tent to reduce all the elbow bumping in a trailer the Suburban can tow.

Good luck

[bneukam]

Agree with Winnebago, or Grand Design. Those trailers give you pretty good quality, towable weight with a 1/2 ton, and won’t cost an arm and a leg.
As the OP has found out there are many variety of TT’s, but what’s important is finding the one that fits you, and your needs.
Good Luck to you and your family.

[txcpl]

Your story sounds a lot like our story. We had a blast with our tent trailer for a number of years. Our children still talk about the various trips we took over the years. Have fun!