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Old 03-18-2017, 07:27 AM   #29
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So I realized I mis-calculated again. There is cross-pollination between payload and total GCWR, but it's not 100%. There is no need to subtract tongue weight from GCWR if you're already subtracting total trailer weight also.

Bottom line - if my passenger/cargo/fuel/hitch weight is about 825 lbs, and my truck weighs 5,409 lbs with a GVWR of 6,950 and a GCWR of 13,750, then my tongue weight is limited to 716 lbs and my total trailer weight is limited to 7,516. Still not at the total trailer weight that Dodge says the truck is rated for, but not as far off as I thought it was. I'll probably still shoot for something at 6k or less just to leave me with a little margin. If I go over 6k dry weight, I'll still start running into payload issues with a loaded truck and trailer anyway.

Thanks again for all the info. School of hard knocks is usually the best teacher in my experience.
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Old 03-18-2017, 03:34 PM   #30
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OK, Dodge says the truck can tow X much that is based on a base truck's curb wt, + a 150lb driver and no other items in the truck and at sea level on flat ground with a slight tailwind .

Tongue wt is usually added into the GVWR of the TT. However if you are limited by the amount of truck payload you have after subtracting the actual curb wt and cargo wt from the GVWR then the real tow rating needs to be calculated on how much of a % of the TT wt is on the tongue. So for example you have say 900lbs of leftover payload and the TT you are looking at has 10% of its dry wt on the tongue then your TT would have a GVWR of 9000 lbs. However that will exceed the CGWR for the truck.

Here is my simple rule of thumb when narrowing down TTs. Take the CGWR of the truck - the GVWR of the truck and look for a TT that has a GVWR around that amount. When you find something close in a floorplan and size you want - then start fine tuning the numbers. So it your case:

13750 - 6950= 6800. Which is just about where the other numbers were working out to be.
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Old 03-18-2017, 08:05 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Randy the sly old fox View Post
OK, Dodge says the truck can tow X much that is based on a base truck's curb wt, + a 150lb driver and no other items in the truck and at sea level on flat ground with a slight tailwind .

Tongue wt is usually added into the GVWR of the TT. However if you are limited by the amount of truck payload you have after subtracting the actual curb wt and cargo wt from the GVWR then the real tow rating needs to be calculated on how much of a % of the TT wt is on the tongue. So for example you have say 900lbs of leftover payload and the TT you are looking at has 10% of its dry wt on the tongue then your TT would have a GVWR of 9000 lbs. However that will exceed the CGWR for the truck.

Here is my simple rule of thumb when narrowing down TTs. Take the CGWR of the truck - the GVWR of the truck and look for a TT that has a GVWR around that amount. When you find something close in a floorplan and size you want - then start fine tuning the numbers. So it your case:

13750 - 6950= 6800. Which is just about where the other numbers were working out to be.
My only point was that if you look at it like that, you're subtracting the tongue weight of the trailer twice. If the tongue weight is 750 lbs in this situation and my truck is loaded to 100% capacity at 6,950 lbs, then my trailer weight could theoretically be 7,550.

In that case, my truck plus cargo/hitch/fuel/passenger weight is 6,200, and it's at 6,950 with the tongue weight. So for calculating GCWR, you would subtract 6,200 from 13,750 to get the allowable loaded trailer weight.

But like I mentioned, if I go over 7k lbs loaded, I'm going to run into payload issues before hitting GCWR anyway.
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Old 03-18-2017, 08:37 PM   #32
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My truck has no GCWR on the door sticker. All it has is these entries:

GAWR front - 3,700 lbs
GAWR rear - 3,900 lbs
GVWR - 6,950 lbs

Ram's specification list my truck weight at 5,409 lbs and GCWR at 13,750 lbs. Nothing on my truck for either of these values on a door sticker or anywhere else that I can find. I looked through the owner's manual and couldn't find any other info either.
Trucks don't have a GCWR sticker nor are their any requirements for one. If GCWR was a important number it would be on the trucks certification placard...and it isn't a drop dead number.
In many cases a tire wheel change creates a different GCWR number.
Gear changes/cab selections/wheel base/different hp numbers in the same engines/manual vs auto in some cases/etc/etc.

Minimum braking power is determined by the truck GAWRs. Your 1500 Ram has a 3700 fawr/3900 rawr = 7600 lbs of braking performance at a minimum.
Brake issues are a thing of the past. Todays new gen trucks have huge brakes compared to our old '60s/'70s/'80 s trucks.
I made a living pulling trailers with those old trucks in that era. Lots of brake issues back then with those old narrow 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 wide brake shoes. Heat and poor stopping power.

Same with the trailer. Tandem 3500 lb axles = 7000 lbs of braking performance at a minimum.

The truck won't have any problems pulling its tow rating
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:27 AM   #33
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Thanks jimnlin
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Old 03-19-2017, 01:06 PM   #34
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I spent yesterday befuddled as to why when I would add a few hundred pounds to my tow vehicle the calculator would drop my trailer weight by thousands. I was ready to comment about the broken calculator but then I seen the post by Patriot and a light bulb went off. So now I know putting my bikes and firewood in the trailer instead of the truck quite literally gives me 4700lbs more trailer towing ability, according to the calculator. This is a great forum and thread I learned a lot, thanks to all who post here.
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Old 03-19-2017, 01:15 PM   #35
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There are a number of web sites with excellent tools to determine the capacity of your truck or the size of your trailer. While it may tow good when you are towing what are you comparing your results to? Do you have enough brakes to stop when in a panic stop? Do you have enough vehicle to control the trailer if something untoward occurs?

Since nobody knows how you drive any advice they give is guessing. Since you don't know how they drive or their skills listening to them is a crap shoot.

Too much trailer is waiting for a disaster, just enough truck is pushing the envelope, too much truck is hedging your bets.
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Old 03-19-2017, 01:46 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald View Post
There are a number of web sites with excellent tools to determine the capacity of your truck or the size of your trailer. While it may tow good when you are towing what are you comparing your results to? Do you have enough brakes to stop when in a panic stop? Do you have enough vehicle to control the trailer if something untoward occurs?

Since nobody knows how you drive any advice they give is guessing. Since you don't know how they drive or their skills listening to them is a crap shoot.

Too much trailer is waiting for a disaster, just enough truck is pushing the envelope, too much truck is hedging your bets.
Hi Gordon, if you've ever used the calculators you'll see they figure your tongue weight at 10-15% of the TT weight. With this when I added the 500lbs (guestimate) of firewood bikes and gear to truck bed it only left me 400lbs till my gvrw. Being that the calculator was set to only allow 10% tongue 400lbs meant that I could only tow 4k which is silly on a truck rated to tow 12k. So quite literally moving 500lbs to trailer instead of truck bed increases tow ability to 9k keeping the tongue at 10%. Unless you have a 1 ton dually I don't buy into needing a 3/4 for weight, In most cases it's the tail wagging the dog anyway. My new half ton can tow as much and has better brakes than my brothers old 3/4. For daily commuting and 3-5 camping trips per year these new not your grandaddys half tons are fine for most under 7k trailers. I stay under the 80% rule although that doesn't always keep you safe and legal. It's important to stay within all legal weights but driving ability matters too, I have 30 years trucking pulling 55s, 53s, 48s doubles and triples in Oregon and two state driving championships.
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Old 03-19-2017, 06:04 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by cdoorider View Post
Hi Gordon, if you've ever used the calculators you'll see they figure your tongue weight at 10-15% of the TT weight. With this when I added the 500lbs (guestimate) of firewood bikes and gear to truck bed it only left me 400lbs till my gvrw. Being that the calculator was set to only allow 10% tongue 400lbs meant that I could only tow 4k which is silly on a truck rated to tow 12k. So quite literally moving 500lbs to trailer instead of truck bed increases tow ability to 9k keeping the tongue at 10%. Unless you have a 1 ton dually I don't buy into needing a 3/4 for weight, In most cases it's the tail wagging the dog anyway. My new half ton can tow as much and has better brakes than my brothers old 3/4. For daily commuting and 3-5 camping trips per year these new not your grandaddys half tons are fine for most under 7k trailers. I stay under the 80% rule although that doesn't always keep you safe and legal. It's important to stay within all legal weights but driving ability matters too, I have 30 years trucking pulling 55s, 53s, 48s doubles and triples in Oregon and two state driving championships.
If you read the disclaimers on the brochures they all say the towing weight is approximate and the actual weight is governed by the GAWR and GVWR. Neat way of marketing. Very misleading except for the disclaimers.

If I read your information correctly you are getting close to overloaded with 10%. If you upped it to 15% you would be even closer or probably over.

If it were only brakes that were important I agree the new brakes are better. It also seems the old trucks were not rated anywhere near as high as the newer ones.

During your driving career you must of seen light truck sitting beside the road with hoods up or brakes smoking. With you experience you have to agree that it is easier to be safe on the bigger truck side than if the truck is maxed or over capacity.

I note when OTR trucks are partially loaded the weight is normally over the drivers and not on the back of the trailer. Why? There has to be some reason to have weight on the tractor. I worked for years in the industry. When loading a truck and pup the truck was always loaded first, when dumping the pup was dumped first. Practicality developed by common sense.

We share the road with some seriously overloaded trucks with drivers claiming they tow just fine. All our families safety is dependent upon ourselves and the other driver.
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Old 03-19-2017, 07:33 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald View Post
If you read the disclaimers on the brochures they all say the towing weight is approximate and the actual weight is governed by the GAWR and GVWR. Neat way of marketing. Very misleading except for the disclaimers.

If I read your information correctly you are getting close to overloaded with 10%. If you upped it to 15% you would be even closer or probably over.

If it were only brakes that were important I agree the new brakes are better. It also seems the old trucks were not rated anywhere near as high as the newer ones.

During your driving career you must of seen light truck sitting beside the road with hoods up or brakes smoking. With you experience you have to agree that it is easier to be safe on the bigger truck side than if the truck is maxed or over capacity.

I note when OTR trucks are partially loaded the weight is normally over the drivers and not on the back of the trailer. Why? There has to be some reason to have weight on the tractor. I worked for years in the industry. When loading a truck and pup the truck was always loaded first, when dumping the pup was dumped first. Practicality developed by common sense.

We share the road with some seriously overloaded trucks with drivers claiming they tow just fine. All our families safety is dependent upon ourselves and the other driver.
I don't disagree with any of your post. Your correct that I'll be getting close on my gvwr, but that's only when I get my new trailer. Right now I'm not close on weight for my little Thor hybrid, 4300lbs. For me this was all research to figure out what I can safely tow. My truck may be tow rated 12k but I think 7k fully loaded would be all I'm comfortable with. I'm very interested in the Lance 2185, I great little trailer that weighs about the same as my Thor. I also like a couple of the ORV and the Winnie Minnie Plus all low 6's but that's all I'll push it.There is a safety margin built into the ratings also and I won't be close to any, of them except TV weight. I can solve TV weight by not loading up the bed of the truck with a week's worth of fire wood and junk. When my better half retires in 7 years I'll probably bump up to a dually and a 5th wheel to fly south for the winter, but until then my new Silverado is quite adequate for the few short camping trips I make. Last thought, if you are under all the
ratings and leave a safety margin having a heavy beast is no different than having 3 heavy trailers with 60k behind a little single screw tractor, but you damn well better know what your doing. Have a Great Day!
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:26 PM   #39
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I don't disagree with any of your post. Your correct that I'll be getting close on my gvwr, but that's only when I get my new trailer. Right now I'm not close on weight for my little Thor hybrid, 4300lbs. For me this was all research to figure out what I can safely tow. My truck may be tow rated 12k but I think 7k fully loaded would be all I'm comfortable with. I'm very interested in the Lance 2185, I great little trailer that weighs about the same as my Thor. I also like a couple of the ORV and the Winnie Minnie Plus all low 6's but that's all I'll push it.There is a safety margin built into the ratings also and I won't be close to any, of them except TV weight. I can solve TV weight by not loading up the bed of the truck with a week's worth of fire wood and junk. When my better half retires in 7 years I'll probably bump up to a dually and a 5th wheel to fly south for the winter, but until then my new Silverado is quite adequate for the few short camping trips I make. Last thought, if you are under all the
ratings and leave a safety margin having a heavy beast is no different than having 3 heavy trailers with 60k behind a little single screw tractor, but you damn well better know what your doing. Have a Great Day!
You are absolutely correct. As long as you have a margin and do not push the envelope you will normally be fine.

The good driver will recognize the limitations and make allowances for them. The others . . . . ??
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:34 PM   #40
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It isn't just the tow capacity it is the payload. Check the door sticker and figure what you and your family in the truck actually weigh. Be sure to include the full weight of fuel. Add the weight of any stuff you carry in the truck. Add again the tongue weight of the loaded trailer ( 12% of the actual weight ) and the WD hitch weight. What you will find is it is very easy to go over on payload. Can it pull it probably but if something were to happen and someone were injured and killed the lawyers would eat your lunch if you were pulling overloaded even if the accident wasn't your fault..
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:39 AM   #41
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I Have a 2016 ram ecodiesel and pull a 6600lb empty weight travel trailer. The truck will pull it all day long mostly in 6th and 7th gear. Did a 300 mile trip last week and got around 12 miles to the gallon. 55-65 mph. The suspension is soft on the ram even with the weight distribution hitch it still has more squat then I wanted(650 lb hitch weight) I have considered these
Timbren DR1500DQ. Any body have these?
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Old 03-23-2017, 08:37 AM   #42
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I had the EcoDiesel and sold it and went with a 3/4 ton Gas burner for my 7000 lb Rockwood. Mileage is not as good but I was concerned about the transmission in the EcoDiesel heating up the 250 degrees in the hills. Now I fell like I have a lot more truck under me. The EcoDiesel pulled great. I prefer the 3/4 ton.
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