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Old 05-08-2016, 10:32 AM   #15
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Although many common bearings are sold in sets, that's not the case in industrial applications.

I have never changed a bad cone, without changing the cup. 1 half don't fail.
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Old 05-08-2016, 04:08 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by IC2 View Post

I replaced 5 of the 8 (all 4 outers and 1 inner) on ours that had very low miles with USA made Timkens
Isn't that interesting, I had exactly the same failures and replaced with USA Timkens. My Chinese bearings were 8 months old with 11,000 miles. You may have seen my report at: Brakes, Bearings and Spindles
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Old 05-08-2016, 05:03 PM   #17
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Isn't that interesting, I had exactly the same failures and replaced with USA Timkens. My Chinese bearings were 8 months old with 11,000 miles. You may have seen my report at: Brakes, Bearings and Spindles
No, I hadn't seen your report as sometimes I just don't get to the TT section on a daily basis but for sure would have added my comments.

A slight hijack - sorry
I'll be pulling much of the suspension off our 5er in the next few days and will look at the bearings after about 12K miles. I suspect they are still just fine but those brakes might be suspect as they have, by guestimate, about 15K miles since new. The trailer gets wet bolts, new 9/16 u-bolts and a 1" block for another inch of clearance. It might also get some new springs later in the year. The jury is out on the MORryde CRE3000 as our last 5er had the Dexter E-Z Flex which worked well.

OK, back to the program
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Old 05-09-2016, 12:16 AM   #18
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Any bearing has to be properly adjusted whether it is ball or tapered. Lynn
Been wrenching for 50 years, can't recall ever seeing an adjustable ball bearing. Some tapered bearings, such as those in the uni-bearings used for automotive wheel bearings today, also have no adjustment.
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Old 05-09-2016, 08:27 AM   #19
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Been wrenching for 50 years, can't recall ever seeing an adjustable ball bearing. Some tapered bearings, such as those in the uni-bearings used for automotive wheel bearings today, also have no adjustment.
I have been employed in the automotive repair field for nearly 56 years. I have owned my own shop for the past 34 years. I also own and operate an automotive machine shop.
The ball bearing wheel bearings I was referencing are the older type ball bearings which were actually a three piece bearing consisting of an inner race, the ball bearing and cage and the inner race. Each hub used an inner and outer as well as a seal. The outer races were driven into the hub just as the newer design tapered bearings. There are not many of these used today but they do still exist especially on older homemade trailers.
They surely did need to be adjusted correctly or they would fail quickly.
If you are referring to the newer design hub and bearing assemblies they don't need adjustment unless they are used in a drive axle application. Then the axle shaft nut has to be torqued to a specification. This is very important to do properly or the bearing will fail prematurely.
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Old 05-09-2016, 10:34 AM   #20
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Go here http://www.dexteraxle.com/resource_library_ , scroll down to Select a Resource to View then open the bottom to Hubs, Drums and Bearings. Page 2 of that .pdf (you can't directly copy it) and you will then see the Dexter instructions for hub and bearing assembly.

Older versions require a preload then back off to the first cotter pin hole. The newer ones are about finger tight which I disagree with as regardless of retainer, either will use the same bearing. Being a tapered roller bearing, they do require that they be snugged down then backed off enough to install the cotter pin or their fancy new retainer. If the bearings are ball bearings, then they would not (normally, unless the instructions state otherwise) have any preload. Capsule bearings such as the dreaded (to me) Nev-R-Lube require about 150lb ft of preload.

This is all in that instruction sheet that really restates (except bearing capsule assemblies) what I learned in our Uncle's Army almost a half century ago
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Old 05-09-2016, 10:49 AM   #21
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Older versions require a preload then back off to the first cotter pin hole. The newer ones are about finger tight which I disagree with as regardless of retainer, either will use the same bearing.

Older versions, that's not what they said.

The new nut retainer will have usually enough slop to provide the needed clearance.

In any case, the nut needs to be "free to move" which simply means no preload.
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Old 05-09-2016, 11:11 AM   #22
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Older versions, that's not what they said.

The new nut retainer will have usually enough slop to provide the needed clearance.

In any case, the nut needs to be "free to move" which simply means no preload.
Reread that instruction sheet. It specifically says to tighten to something like 50 foot pounds then back off. Don't rotate the wheel when backing off to that first cotter pin hole. The bearing will then be close or at finger tight at that point. That's preloading the bearing. See Step 2 of that instruction. If you simply finger tighten, then that may be why you have failed wheel bearings. I have never failed ANY bearing, ever, that I have installed.

If you are happy doing it your way, so be it. I'll stick with tapered roller bearing makers and RV manufacturer's recommendations along with a lot of years fixing rolling stock professionally and hobbywise
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Old 05-09-2016, 01:01 PM   #23
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Reread that instruction sheet. It specifically says to tighten to something like 50 foot pounds then back off. Don't rotate the wheel when backing off to that first cotter pin hole. The bearing will then be close or at finger tight at that point. That's preloading the bearing. See Step 2 of that instruction. If you simply finger tighten, then that may be why you have failed wheel bearings. I have never failed ANY bearing, ever, that I have installed.
Ditto. The object of tightening the nut while rotating the hub is to seat the bearings into the cup and grease. No pre-load on the bearing while operating as the nut will be backed off a smidge. But if you run the nut down till it is finger tight without first seating the bearings into the cups and grease you'll have issues. Tighten the nut, loosen the nut, run it back down finger tight, back off just enough to get the cotter pin in.
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Old 05-09-2016, 01:07 PM   #24
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Reread that instruction sheet. It specifically says to tighten to something like 50 foot pounds then back off. Don't rotate the wheel when backing off to that first cotter pin hole. The bearing will then be close or at finger tight at that point. That's preloading the bearing. See Step 2 of that instruction. If you simply finger tighten, then that may be why you have failed wheel bearings. I have never failed ANY bearing, ever, that I have installed.

If you are happy doing it your way, so be it. I'll stick with tapered roller bearing makers and RV manufacturer's recommendations along with a lot of years fixing rolling stock professionally and hobbywise
2

Please learn how to read this, inexperienced folks might come here and believe they should adjust without the proper information.



Bearing Adjustment and Hub Replacement
If the hub has been removed or bearing adjustment is required, the following adjustment procedure must be followed:
1. After placing the hub, bearings, washers, and spindle nut back on the axle spindle in reverse order as detailed in the previo
us section on hub
removal, rotate the hub assembly slowly while tightening the spindle nut to approximately 50 lbs.-ft (12" wrench or pliers with
full hand force).
2. Then loosen the spindle nut to remove the torque.
Do not rotate the hub.
3. Finger tighten the spindle nut until just snug.
4. Back the spindle nut out slightly until the first castellation lines up with the cotter key hole and insert the cotter pin (o
r locking tang in the case
of E-Z Lube™).
5. Bend over the cotter pin legs to secure the nut (or locking tang in the case of E-Z Lube™).
6. Nut should be free to move with only restraint being the cotter pin (or locking tang).
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Old 05-09-2016, 03:35 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by lynnmor View Post
2

Please learn how to read this, inexperienced folks might come here and believe they should adjust without the proper information.



Bearing Adjustment and Hub Replacement
If the hub has been removed or bearing adjustment is required, the following adjustment procedure must be followed:
1. After placing the hub, bearings, washers, and spindle nut back on the axle spindle in reverse order as detailed in the previo
us section on hub
removal, rotate the hub assembly slowly while tightening the spindle nut to approximately 50 lbs.-ft (12" wrench or pliers with
full hand force).
2. Then loosen the spindle nut to remove the torque.
Do not rotate the hub.
3. Finger tighten the spindle nut until just snug.
4. Back the spindle nut out slightly until the first castellation lines up with the cotter key hole and insert the cotter pin (o
r locking tang in the case
of E-Z Lube™).
5. Bend over the cotter pin legs to secure the nut (or locking tang in the case of E-Z Lube™).
6. Nut should be free to move with only restraint being the cotter pin (or locking tang).
I would take issue with these instructions and I don't care who wrote them.
I would never tighten these bearings to 50 ft.lb. There is no need for it. You do stand a chance of galling the races by doing this. You do need to tighten the bearing just enough to be sure it is all in place properly then back the nut off. Most people in the field will do this two or maybe even more times before achieving the final setting. The bearing doesn't want to be tight and certainly doesn't want to be loose. If after the final tightening you can slide the washer back and forth a bit you should be OK. This can be done with a flat screwdriver. You want a tiny bit of play in the bearing to compensate for expansion when the bearing is warmed when rolling along.
Adjusting these types of bearings is like eating an ice cream cone. Everyone has a different way. The final results should be the same.
Lynn
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Old 05-09-2016, 05:37 PM   #26
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I would take issue with these instructions and I don't care who wrote them.
I would never tighten these bearings to 50 ft.lb. There is no need for it. You do stand a chance of galling the races by doing this. You do need to tighten the bearing just enough to be sure it is all in place properly then back the nut off. Most people in the field will do this two or maybe even more times before achieving the final setting. The bearing doesn't want to be tight and certainly doesn't want to be loose. If after the final tightening you can slide the washer back and forth a bit you should be OK. This can be done with a flat screwdriver. You want a tiny bit of play in the bearing to compensate for expansion when the bearing is warmed when rolling along.
Adjusting these types of bearings is like eating an ice cream cone. Everyone has a different way. The final results should be the same.
Lynn
That was the instructions that IC2 referred to, copied and pasted from the website. The instructions were written by Dexter. Others have added their own incorrect information like backing off 1/4 turn and inserting the cotter pin. That idea is very much a hit or miss adjustment and could lead to inexperienced people to have a bearing too tight or too loose.

The idea of using 50 ft. lb. of torque is to assure that the races are seated. I agree that it does seem excessive, but if an amateur installed the races without a press, or didn't take the time to punch it in fully, then it should correct his faults. I think that there is a real chance of indenting the races, especially if the hub is not continually rotated. Note that the hub manufacturers use that same 50 ft. lb. specification for a number of different size bearings, and that doesn't make sense. Subsequent bearing service only needs enough pressure to displace the grease.
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Old 05-10-2016, 06:24 AM   #27
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The 50 lb ft is at best a very arbitrary number. I'll just use my big water pump pliers, snug the nut to a comfortable feel, back off to the first cotter pin hole or in the case of the new retainer, until it just goes on. As far as seating that stationary cone with 50 lb ft, if you can, you have a wallowed out hub that needs to be replaced.
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Old 05-10-2016, 05:42 PM   #28
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The races need to be pressed in all the way,first, not by the bearings.
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