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Old 09-20-2015, 03:23 PM   #29
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My feeling was to make a little vacation out of flying to Denver for a look, as well as determine which floorplan I like the best. I was considering extending the trip by renting a car and visiting another well respected dealer in Montana for competitive pricing, then swinging out to Oregon to tour the plant. The Northwoods plant is about 2 miles from the ORV plant. Unfortunately there is only one Arctic Fox model that I can tow safely.
Bill
I would question, if it is efficient to do all that. Look at how much you would spend and will it really make a difference. You can find much of the info you need on line. Also look at the NASH or ORV floor plan you like and then find on in another manufacturer in your area to see if the size and layout makes sense for you.

Once a RV is built you can't find the defects until you use it. That is where the issue of how the mfg takes care of repairs comes in.
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Old 09-20-2015, 03:26 PM   #30
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The Nash, well rated, was not in my list due to wood frame.
I am having a feeling that the Northwood dealer 120 miles northwest of me, may have disappeared. No longer shows up in the Northwood dealer listing.

Highway,

You got it, and my idea of "most use" is not spending time at a dealer being a "garage queen" due to issues.

As far as solar, the 10 watt panel is only a trickle charger at best. I have decided that I will get "solar ready" from either mfgr. If I do enough boondocking, I'll install a 1st class system. For starters, I will get some good batteries, and use my Honda generator.
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Old 09-20-2015, 03:42 PM   #31
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Is there anyone who has seen both products for comparison?
I am still open to anyone's added wisdom.
I have crossed Winnebago off the list, it is now between the Creekside 23RBS, or the Lance 2295

Thanks,
Bill
I'm doing the same process as you are. I'd suggest the next size up if you are going to full time. That dinette area looks comfortable and functional but it is not relaxing for long spells of time. There are units that have a sofa that in place of the dinette and is used with a table for eating. I saw a larger one that had a dinette and one small reclining chair. I don't remember the mfg. though.

The other thing is the bed with a sloping front (Lance?) - depending upon your height. A guy that was 5'10" said his feet hung over the bed because the sloping front shortened the usable length of the bed.
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Old 09-20-2015, 06:31 PM   #32
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I will not be full timing, but will be going on long range trips spanning 1 - 2 months or more. The bed in the Lance was pretty comfortable to my surprise, but without pillows. I'm going to go to one of the dealers at my leisure to do an even more in depth going over without the crowds, and with a checklist of everything I can think of prepared in advance. Still have uncertainty about the 14" wheels. I really don't want to go bigger, so as to not overwork my TV. The Lance is 1000lbs lighter than the Creekside, and it's gvw is also less by the same amount. 95% of the time, I will be solo.
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Old 09-20-2015, 06:56 PM   #33
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I will not be full timing, but will be going on long range trips spanning 1 - 2 months or more. The bed in the Lance was pretty comfortable to my surprise, but without pillows. I'm going to go to one of the dealers at my leisure to do an even more in depth going over without the crowds, and with a checklist of everything I can think of prepared in advance. Still have uncertainty about the 14" wheels. I really don't want to go bigger, so as to not overwork my TV. The Lance is 1000lbs lighter than the Creekside, and it's gvw is also less by the same amount. 95% of the time, I will be solo.
The Lance looks very well constructed. I think the price really turns me off.

Add to your list the ST205/75R14 load range c or d? Most are C. You should be OK with 4 of them.
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Old 09-21-2015, 06:48 AM   #34
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With the wheels, I don't think I can upgrade the tires to a truck tire, which would have a heavier load range & rated for better than 65 mph.
In the number crunching, two trips out west will add $ 4K + to the bottom line, so the approx cost would be within 1K, without the hassle. I really would enjoy the trips though. Both rigs would be getting similar mods, so it's almost a stalemate except for the customer support.
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Old 09-21-2015, 08:21 AM   #35
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We had three TT's and when we first decided to get into them I was not well versed in their design. We had two MH's before trying the TT idea and in our opinion it was a mistake.

I'm not a novice when it comes to electrical and mechanical things. After 4 years in the AF working on ground radar and teaching automotive mechanics for 35 years I've seen a few things.

When you see the phrase, "Ultra-Lite" or "Super-Lite". walk away. You can't have quality and 1/2-ton truck towables. Making something less than 10,000 lbs means that you have to sacrifice in weight somewhere. Now add the latest changes meaning all the slides and you're adding weight. It's just not attainable to have low weight and quality.

The first place will be the frame. Our last TT had 4 electric corner jacks. I added two scissors jacks under the center near the axles. I also added two portable jacks for the long slide. That's a total of 6 support jacks. It still bounced like a trampoline when camping.

I did not realize that most TT's do not have shocks or self-adjusting brakes. Dexter does have an independent axle that I really liked. It's called a Tor-Flex. You can look it up on line. That axle did have self-adjusting brakes but still no shocks. I was going to add the shocks.

As already stated if it has 14" tires/rims you only have two load ranges C and D to choose from. The industry does not make anything else. The weight limit for the D load range will still be marginal at best.

If you can find any TT that has axles that can carry 1,000 lbs more than the stated maximum load I'd be shocked. Our last TT had two 3,000 lb axles for a TT that had a max load rating of 7,000 lbs. Yes I know the TV carries 400-600 lbs of that weight on the tongue but still where's the safety margin????

IMHO I believe that most TT's under 10,000 lbs are built on the edge of destruction. The ones over 10-K are no better. They do have more BLING but not quality.

Consider this. Most TT's after the initial 2-3 years set next to the garage or behind the barn. Most are used for a few trips to the lake during the summer. The greatest percentage of TT's are just not used very much. So the industry builds with that in mind. Check out the TT forums. I've read of many, many a guy who spends an additional $10-$15,000 to upgrade axles, tires/rims so they can safely travel our highways.

TeJay
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Old 09-22-2015, 12:28 AM   #36
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We had three TT's and when we first decided to get into them I was not well versed in their design. We had two MH's before trying the TT idea and in our opinion it was a mistake.

I'm not a novice when it comes to electrical and mechanical things. After 4 years in the AF working on ground radar and teaching automotive mechanics for 35 years I've seen a few things.

When you see the phrase, "Ultra-Lite" or "Super-Lite". walk away. You can't have quality and 1/2-ton truck towables. Making something less than 10,000 lbs means that you have to sacrifice in weight somewhere. Now add the latest changes meaning all the slides and you're adding weight. It's just not attainable to have low weight and quality.

The first place will be the frame. Our last TT had 4 electric corner jacks. I added two scissors jacks under the center near the axles. I also added two portable jacks for the long slide. That's a total of 6 support jacks. It still bounced like a trampoline when camping.

I did not realize that most TT's do not have shocks or self-adjusting brakes. Dexter does have an independent axle that I really liked. It's called a Tor-Flex. You can look it up on line. That axle did have self-adjusting brakes but still no shocks. I was going to add the shocks.

As already stated if it has 14" tires/rims you only have two load ranges C and D to choose from. The industry does not make anything else. The weight limit for the D load range will still be marginal at best.

If you can find any TT that has axles that can carry 1,000 lbs more than the stated maximum load I'd be shocked. Our last TT had two 3,000 lb axles for a TT that had a max load rating of 7,000 lbs. Yes I know the TV carries 400-600 lbs of that weight on the tongue but still where's the safety margin????

IMHO I believe that most TT's under 10,000 lbs are built on the edge of destruction. The ones over 10-K are no better. They do have more BLING but not quality.

Consider this. Most TT's after the initial 2-3 years set next to the garage or behind the barn. Most are used for a few trips to the lake during the summer. The greatest percentage of TT's are just not used very much. So the industry builds with that in mind. Check out the TT forums. I've read of many, many a guy who spends an additional $10-$15,000 to upgrade axles, tires/rims so they can safely travel our highways.

TeJay
Buyers need to shop around to find solid built TT's. Northwood and OutdoorRV make TT's that can carry heavy loads. Not all 10,000lb TT's are junk. I don't think you have done your shopping well enough.
If you believe someone spends $10-15,000 for axles, tires and rims then I have some ocean front property in South Dakota I'd love to sell you.
Rims can be had for $100-150.00 each. 16' tires can be had for $650-1200 for a set of 4. Axles and springs run around $300-350 each.
That's around $2300 give or take. Any decent shop should be able to do an install in 4-5 hrs, so add $500-$700 for labor.
$3,000 give or take.
Not sure where someone would spend another $7,000-$12,000?
Even adding disk brakes to it would only add $2000-2400.00.
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Old 09-22-2015, 03:28 PM   #37
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I only reported what I read. I realize that what some do report is not always accurate. The point was that owners of TT's should not have to spend any extra $$$$ so they can travel with some degree of a safety margin.

It's obvious that the TT industry does just what is has to do to get by. CS tells me if I have something with a suspension and frame under it then I'm going to install some shocks to dampen the suspension compression and rebound. If it's bouncing all over the place due to road conditions and winds that is the beginning of TT's swaying out of control and crashing. Oh no we have to sell them a WDH with sway control instead of putting some shocks on the unit.

I'm sure there are decent units out there but they are few and far between. The market is going to drive the price and therefore the quality. I did my shopping and traded the TT for a decent MH. I did my research but ASSUMED that anything traveling down our highways had self-adjusting brakes, shocks and suspension bushings that would last more than 1,200 miles. My mistake was I trusted the manufacturer to make good decisions. Never again will I own a TT. Ninety +% are built on the edge of destruction.

TeJay
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Old 09-23-2015, 12:00 AM   #38
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Tejay I do not share your belief that Ninety +% of the trailers are built on the edge of destruction. I too have 35+ years in Automotive and have seen the quality of trailers come a long way up over the last 4 to 5 years. My most recent trailer is built much better then my previous trailers , and I have been all over and under it , studied the specs and read all the forums. Myself and all my friends with trailers don't leave them by the barn , last year I did 5K with my trailer and several friends did even more with theirs.
With your opinion of TT , you must cringe when your MH gets passed by a TT going down the highway for fear of parts coming off our TT and hitting your MH.
We all have opinions and now we have both shared ours, Happy travels in your MH.
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Old 09-23-2015, 08:55 AM   #39
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Tejay, I think you are being generous saying 90% are on the edge of destruction. Nearly all are using cheap tires, light imported axles, plastic bushings, poorly made springs, marginal electric drum brakes, poor quality spring hangers and shackles, cheap wheel bearings and marginal, poorly run brake wiring.

I replaced all the junk mentioned, and more, in order to make my trailer roadworthy. I added shocks and reinforcement to the weak frame to stop the cracking. I stay way back from anyone towing, because I know how trailers are made and maintained.
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Old 09-23-2015, 12:10 PM   #40
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If you read what lynmor wrote you see that I'm not alone and I could leave it at that. we both have our opinions and you know what that's worth.

I do believe that you went a little over the top. No I don't cringe when a TT goes by thinking parts are going to fly off. That's just a bit much. As far as setting your TT by the barn oh come now. I never said that some don't use them a lot. I said that after 3-5 years once the newness is worn off then they set them by the barn. That's just a guess but I never said those were stats were etched in stone. It was an exaggerated statement to point out that most TT's are seldom used after a few years. It they are it's just a few trips close to home.

Yes we are seeing a lot of folks FTing it these days. They are also in 60-K + 5th wheels. The small TT's are less likely to be used as a FT domain.

I am concerned that many a TT owner does not know what they are getting into. I am competent to fix most anything on any rig out there. If I can't fix it I can diagnose what is wrong and know the next step. You also sound like you have the skills and knowledge as well. That puts us in a different category. Most out there don't have much of a clue and rely on the local RV repairman and we both know they are few and far between.

Find me one TT that has axles rated to carry 1,000 lbs over the max weight. I don't believe you can. Most TT's in the 26-28' range will have 14" tires and the tires they make at the most will have a D load rating (ours came with C's 1,800 lb ratings) which is going to be about 2,200 lbs per tire. That means with an 8,000 lb TT you have 800 lbs of safety. If you have a TT with 15" tires/rims you have many more choices.

We ordered all of our TT's (three) and on the second and third I asked them to put 15" tires and 3,500 or 4,000 lb axles. They said it wasn't possible. i know it was possible but they just didn't want to deviate from the assembly line production. I was willing to pay and they still said no.

Our first TT was rated at 7,000 max and came with C load rated tires which means our TT had tires that would safely carry 7,200 lbs. That's an accident waiting to happen. So I got load range D tires which helped. i shouldn't have to spend extra $$$ to be almost safe. Now I rest my case.

TeJay
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Old 09-23-2015, 12:24 PM   #41
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TeJay
My OutdoorsRV 250RDSW weighs about 7K empty and came with 5200 pound axles and D rated 15 inch rims. You will find that the Outdoors and Northwood products use axles and tires well matched for the weight.
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:24 PM   #42
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We ordered all of our TT's (three) and on the second and third I asked them to put 15" tires and 3,500 or 4,000 lb axles. They said it wasn't possible. i know it was possible but they just didn't want to deviate from the assembly line production. I was willing to pay and they still said no.
Tejay
my 22 ft. trailer came standard with 3,500 axles. It gets back to my and others thinking in this thread that some Manufactures are trying to put out a better product today. Not all trailers are created equal.
As for me going over the top on my previous post to you , I found your remark that 90+% of TT are built on the edge of destruction over the top as well.
We may have different opinions on some things , but it looks like we agree on a manufacture , good choice Tejay
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