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Old 11-18-2006, 08:47 AM   #1
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For the past month there have been a lot of discussions about Dish customers losing Distant Network Services on Dec 1...East and West Network feeds.. due to a court order. This affects both fix Dish home customers as well as Rvers that have filed the RV waiver in order to get the East/West feeds.

Probably most DirecTV users have said "Glad it's not me." Some Dish users have switched to DirecTV.

Dish has waged a campaign to get their DNS customers to contact their congressional representatives to get the law changed. That campaign resulted in the introduction of S4067 on Thursday by Senatory Leahy, and it was assigned to the Judiciary Committee that he will chair when the new Senate convenes. There is no link to the Senate bill text yet.

This is the link to an outline of the bill:
http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200611/111606a.html

The law specifically removes the injunction against Dish. OK so far. Then it establishes a whole new set of rules that apply to ALL satellite carriers, not just Dish. It requires a $20 million escrow payment to the copyright office to cover violations. It sets fines at $100 per subscriber per month for violations (Currently, $5).

It removes the right to transmit two same-network stations to a subscriber, so DirecTV users getting LA/NY would only get one of those if this passes.

Edit: The first paragraph of the bill makes the entire rest of the section apply only to a satellite carrier who has been found guilty in a court of a "pattern or practice of violations" (Dish Network) and thus has lost their rights to "normal" DNS. Once there is that finding, they can still do DNS in a limited scope in accordance with this new law.

That means: 1) it does not affect DirecTV, and 2) it does not restore DNS to mobile users of Dish, because the scope of what is allowed is a lot smaller than "normal" DNS. In other words, not "businesss as usual" but rather a limited subset of normal business.


It does not have ANY RV-waiver capability. It is unclear if this would wipe out the current sections dealing with RV waivers. It purely deals with Distant Network Services where no locals, broadcast or satellite, are available.

This is a cut and past from www.datastormusers.com owner, Don Bradner

The specific thread http://www.datastormusers.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/g...c/f/10/t/000261.html
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Old 11-18-2006, 08:47 AM   #2
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For the past month there have been a lot of discussions about Dish customers losing Distant Network Services on Dec 1...East and West Network feeds.. due to a court order. This affects both fix Dish home customers as well as Rvers that have filed the RV waiver in order to get the East/West feeds.

Probably most DirecTV users have said "Glad it's not me." Some Dish users have switched to DirecTV.

Dish has waged a campaign to get their DNS customers to contact their congressional representatives to get the law changed. That campaign resulted in the introduction of S4067 on Thursday by Senatory Leahy, and it was assigned to the Judiciary Committee that he will chair when the new Senate convenes. There is no link to the Senate bill text yet.

This is the link to an outline of the bill:
http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200611/111606a.html

The law specifically removes the injunction against Dish. OK so far. Then it establishes a whole new set of rules that apply to ALL satellite carriers, not just Dish. It requires a $20 million escrow payment to the copyright office to cover violations. It sets fines at $100 per subscriber per month for violations (Currently, $5).

It removes the right to transmit two same-network stations to a subscriber, so DirecTV users getting LA/NY would only get one of those if this passes.

Edit: The first paragraph of the bill makes the entire rest of the section apply only to a satellite carrier who has been found guilty in a court of a "pattern or practice of violations" (Dish Network) and thus has lost their rights to "normal" DNS. Once there is that finding, they can still do DNS in a limited scope in accordance with this new law.

That means: 1) it does not affect DirecTV, and 2) it does not restore DNS to mobile users of Dish, because the scope of what is allowed is a lot smaller than "normal" DNS. In other words, not "businesss as usual" but rather a limited subset of normal business.


It does not have ANY RV-waiver capability. It is unclear if this would wipe out the current sections dealing with RV waivers. It purely deals with Distant Network Services where no locals, broadcast or satellite, are available.

This is a cut and past from www.datastormusers.com owner, Don Bradner

The specific thread http://www.datastormusers.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/g...c/f/10/t/000261.html
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Old 11-23-2006, 06:59 PM   #3
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It does not have ANY RV-waiver capability. It is unclear if this would wipe out the current sections dealing with RV waivers. It purely deals with Distant Network Services where no locals, broadcast or satellite, are available. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmm...this brings up a good question.

I have been a Dish subscriber for about 9 years now, and I have always taken one of my home receivers on the road with me whenever we set off for a trip.

I recently had my entire system upgraded at home. None of my old receivers were compatible with my new dish antenna, and the new receivers are not compatible with my RV's dish. This forced me to pay extra to keep one of my old receivers in my coach on a permanent basis. Dish asked me why I had an old system receiver when my new system would not work with it, and I told them that I use it solely in my RV. This is something that I had never revealed to them before.....not that I was trying to hide the fact, I didn't think they cared. When I told the Dish rep. that over the phone, she asked me if I had signed an RV waiver. I said no, so she mailed one out to me.

I looked it over, but I never signed or returned it. What exactly does this waiver do?
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:30 PM   #4
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I use Direct TV and in order to subscribe and be authorized to receive the DNS I had to fill out and send in the form you are referencing.
In discussion with Direct tv I was told that the supplier (Direct TV) had to have the application on file (in accordance with the FCC Rules and Regulations) before they could turn me on for the DNS.
I read somewhere that Dish was not in compliance with the Rules and were therefore banned by the Court Order from suppling DNS to their subscribers.
I grew up understanding that "If you want to play the game, you must comply with the rules" and from what I have read, Dish didn't play by the Rules and thus was put out of the game.
Now it looks like rather than play by the Rules they want to change the Rules....Oh Hum. Politics!
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:06 PM   #5
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I can't speak for Dish but Direct TV requires the waiver for your RV because you cannot keep a telephone line hooked to your receiver at all times which is a term of the contract when you subscribe to Direct TV. It has nothing to do with the DNS availability.

I was under the impression this only concerned local stations that are sent via spotbeam to certain locations but in some areas these areas overlapped and hypothetically a person living in Boston could receive NY stations.
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Old 11-24-2006, 06:43 AM   #6
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I hope I am not blowing too much band width with these but they are direct tv instructions and the form for DNS SERVICE TO R/V's. If persons notify their suppliers that the use is for R/V there are permissable ways to do it. To take the receiver out of the house to the R/V and use it there without the suppliers knowledge is illegal and under handed and just plain WRONG!

"Only residential accounts are available for DNS, but some mobile accounts might be eligible. According to federal regulations, we may offer DNS without screening for address eligibility only to certain types of recreational vehicles and commercial trucks. Boats and other marine vessels do not qualify for this special consideration. For definitions of eligible vehicles, please see the FCC website (item No. 18 of the Satellite Home Viewer Improvement Act of 1999 fact sheet).

Before we can add DNS to your service, federal law requires that you send us the following information:

Photocopy of your vehicle registration.
This Mobile Vehicle Affidavit Declaration of Intent form (please print and complete).
Photocopy of commercial driver's license (if you're requesting service for a commercial vehicle such as a tractor trailer).


Mobile Vehicle Declaration of Intent Distant Network Services
I ____________________________________________, am a DIRECTV customer. My DIRECTV account number is _________________________.
I intend to subscribe to Distant Network Services from DIRECTV for use on the vehicle ascribed registration number ______________________________________ in the state of ____________ for the term from ___________ until _____________. (Attached is a copy of the current registration for this vehicle).
I attest that the satellite antenna to be used to receive this programming is attached to, and the system receiver is located in, this vehicle (which is a motor vehicle or commercial truck and not a boat or any other kind of marine vessel), and is not intended for use in a fixed dwelling residence. I understand that the misuse of this equipment will result in the termination of my Distant Network Service programming and could lead to legal action taken against me.
Name (Print) ______________________________________________
Signed ______________________________________________
Date ________________________
Please return completed Declaration of Intent,
along with a copy of your current vehicle registration, to the address below. (Commercial truck operators must also submit a copy of their current commercial drivers license).
DIRECTV
Attn: Mobile Network Services
P.O. Box 6550
Greenwood Village, CO 80155-6550
0906IMVAFF"

Copied from Direct TV website!
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Old 11-24-2006, 07:27 AM   #7
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Edit: The first paragraph of the bill makes the entire rest of the section apply only to a satellite carrier who has been found guilty in a court of a "pattern or practice of violations" (Dish Network) and thus has lost their rights to "normal" DNS. Once there is that finding, they can still do DNS in a limited scope in accordance with this new law. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sure seems like the simple answer, even with all that typing.....According to another forum I frequent "Datastormusers.com" this paragraph speaks volumes to why Dish is so upset...
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Old 11-24-2006, 09:09 AM   #8
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt. Chet:
To take the receiver out of the house to the R/V and use it there without the suppliers knowledge is illegal and under handed and just plain WRONG! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wow! Strong words there, don't you think Capt. Chet? I didn't know I was violating any morale or federal laws!

By the way, I see you're new here. Welcome to our "friendly" forum.

Simply put, when I first started my Dish Network service years ago, this is exactly what a Dish Tech Rep told me to do. I wasn't aware of or even mailed a waiver until I upgraded last month. Guess that's why Dish got into trouble....bad communication. In fact, when I was told to complete the waiver, the Dish person on the phone couldn't even explain what the waiver entailed.

Never fear though, I promise to mail it in, now that I know what it's for. The waiver itself was very legal mumbo-jumbo.
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Old 11-24-2006, 09:50 AM   #9
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Even as a current Directv customer that has a waiver on file with Directv, when I called recently to add PBS to what I was receiving I had to go through two call center people and finally be connected with someone in what he called "tech support" until I could make anyone understand I was entitled to PBS even in an RV...
The call center folks, from wherever they were answering from, had NO idea and were obviously reading off a "scripted" card of answers.
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Old 11-25-2006, 06:56 AM   #10
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I have had Dish for at least 6 years, but I fired Dish yesterday. Directv will be out today to do the install. I have my RV waiver printed and ready to send in when my account is setup. I probably will send it in after the first bill.
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Old 11-25-2006, 07:21 AM   #11
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt. Chet:
To take the receiver out of the house to the R/V and use it there without the suppliers knowledge is illegal and under handed and just plain WRONG!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've had DishNet since 1995 and regularly take a receiver from the house and use it in the RV. Been doing it for a long time....it worked as far west as San Diego, as far north west as Washington State, and we've used it in Florida, along with many other states.

I've never signed a waiver, have not been asked to sign one, nor do I plan to sign one.

Perhaps, by Capt. Chet's account, what I'm doing by taking the receiver out of the house to the R/V and using it there without the suppliers knowledge is illegal and under handed. If that be true, I suppose some day the Feds will come knocking on my camper door and drag me off in cuffs, only to be incarcerated for the remainder of my life.

I can only wonder if anyone in law enforcement really cares and if they bust me would they bother to bust thousands of other RVrs who do the same?
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Old 11-25-2006, 07:47 AM   #12
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I signed up with directv over 10 years ago and told them my receivers were to be used in my RV. I was sent a form totally different from the one Capt Chet displayed and was told by DTV that it was a waiver because my receiver would not be hooked to a telephone line.

I have the DNS package and to my knowledge have never signed a form like the one Capt Chet showed for them. Perhaps the original form I signed covered them as well.

I can see where Dish would be angry. DTV gets away with it by charging $4.95 a month and Dish, doing the same thing,is being told by the FCC to shut them off.
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Old 11-25-2006, 07:58 AM   #13
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">DTV gets away with it by charging $4.95 a month and Dish, doing the same thing,is being told by the FCC to shut them off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How would Dish Net shut off service to my receiver? I pay the an extra $5 each a month (I have 3 receivers) for the extra receivers which are connected to phone lines in my house when I'm not using one in the RV. How would they know the receiver is in the RV and not the house, is it through that phone line connection?

It's always worked before.....if they shut it off I'll probably drop one of the receivers. Don't hardly use it much in the house anyway, it's just connected and sits there.
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Old 11-25-2006, 09:21 AM   #14
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I can see where Dish would be angry. DTV gets away with it by charging $4.95 a month and Dish, doing the same thing,is being told by the FCC to shut them off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have totally misunderstood the whole situation.

The reason that Dish Network has been ordered to stop sending out DNS signals on December 1 is because they didn't follow the rules for providing DNS to their customers -- they were providing DNS to almost anyone who asked, whether or not they were eligible to receive the DNS signals.

DirecTV FOLLOWED the rules -- that's why they're not in trouble, and can continue offering DNS to their QUALIFIED customers!

HitchHiker, the situation has nothing to do with having more than one receiver, or whether or not any of the receivers are hooked up to a phone line, or whether or not any of the receivers are in an RV.
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