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Old 08-15-2015, 09:36 PM   #1
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Dual tuner vs single tuner

I am using Directv HR24 and H24 receivers with the Winegard Trav'ler on the roof of my 2015 coach. Newmar wired the coach so that with an A/B switch at each receiver I can switch from the Trav'ler to a Winegard Carryout Dome for when camped under trees.

When I do this switch between dishes I have to go to the TV at each receiver and change the dish to 18"x20", change SWM to Multiswitch, and on the HR24 change Dual Tuner to Single Tuner.

What is this doing to me when I change to Single Tuner on the DVR? Does this mean that when I'm recording a TV program I can't watch a different program? I know I can record without any trouble but I haven't tried to watch a different program at the same time yet. All this is new technology to me and was surprised at what I got after ordering the coach with the suggestions from the salesman. Originally was told the Genie was the way to go then the dealer's satellite expert said the HR24 was the only Directv receiver that would receive both HD off one dish then switch to SD off a different dish.
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Old 08-16-2015, 12:13 PM   #2
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Welcome to the "wacky" world of DirecTV. What you are dealing with are two separate technologies; standard multiswitching versus Single Wire Multiswitching (SWM). Standard multiswitching requires a separate coax connection to each receiver's tuner. So, for two tuners you need two coax connections. SWM, on the other hand, multiplexes the various LNB signals over a single wire. So, you can run a number of tuners (and receives) off a single coax line with SWM.

The genie you reference only works on SWM so it cannot work with a standard portable dish. Your HR24 will work on either the standard switched signals or SWM. You already have SWM technology with your Travl'er which is what allows your HR24 (or Genie) to work just fine with a single coax connection.

The "simplest" way to have a portable dish for your setup is to get a SWM dish on a tripod. But, you have to be willing to do learn how to manually aim the dish. All "automated" portable dishes are (at this moment) standard technology. Switching your receiver back and forth between "standard" connections and SWM connections should be easy. And you make it sound like you are having no problems with this transition. But, there are a number of posts on other forums (satellite specific forums) where this transition is not as smooth as it ought to be. So, the next step is to add a SWM switch to your portable dish. This would be my recommendation. And as you noted, you will only get SD stations on this setup since these dishes only receive sat 101 signals. But you will have no issues transitioning from your Trav'ler to your portable dish. And all your tuners will be active.

And, to answer your question about being able to record on one tuner and watch another; that requires that each tuner (2) be connected to the dish with the standard configuration and only one coax for SWM. And you cannot have one tuner on SWM and the other on standard. So, you would have to do a lot of rewiring to switch from one configuration to the other. You really want to keep your whole system SWM for your own sanity.

I do hope this helps rather than just add to the confusion.
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Old 08-16-2015, 10:10 PM   #3
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We've been through a lot more than confusion 2 months ago when we picked up our new 4018 DS and the dealer's tech was trying to make our Winegard Carryout Dome (which we already had and have been using for 3-4 years) work on the HR24 receiver like their satellite expert said it would
He could get the Dome to work with the H24 receiver but not the HR24 (DVR). Then they said for $775 they could switch the Dome to SWM, but after just paying them $620 for/installing the 2 receivers I figured enough was enough. After getting home from picking up our coach I re-read the brochure that came with the Winegard Carryout and realized it has a main cable port (which we always used and what the tech was trying to use with the DVR) and a secondary port that I had never paid any attention to.

So I hooked the main cable port to the H24 connector Newmar installed for an outside dish and changed that receiver to Dome. Then connected the secondary port of the Dome to the DVR connection Newmar also installed for this purpose and changed that receiver to the Dome. Now I can use the Travl'er when we're camped in the open or change both receivers to the Dome if we're under trees.

I know it would be much simpler if the Carryout Dome was SWM but the cost and the fact at this point I'm not sure what all wiring Newmar did with A/B switches at the both receivers in order to use the roof dish or the outside dish. Still not sure why as soon as I start changing the H24 to the Carryout (or back to the Travl'er) the HR24 goes into an error mode, so both receivers must be on the same dish at the same time in order to have a picture.

As far as all this new technology I feel like I've just come out of the 1st grade and gone directly into college. At least for now I am able to use either one of the dishes so our late summer and early fall trips should be all we need for TV. The Carryout Dome is necessary since two of the small Colorado towns we visit were completely dropped by their cable company (and one has lots of trees in the way) so unless you have satellite you have no TV.

Appreciate any and all information about satellite connections I am struggling with here.
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Old 08-16-2015, 11:35 PM   #4
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Well it was probably a good thing to walk away from your earlier dealer. I cannot see how they got to the $775 figure for converting your dome to SWM. As you will see below, the parts cost is only $47 + coax. I know you said that you are good for now so what I have to add can wait until you get back from your current trips. But, when you are ready to explore options you should find that converting the dome to SWM is really not that big a project.

First you need to check out the Winegard manual on how to convert various dishes to SWM. It should have a configuration for your carryout dish. You can find the pdf at http://www.winegard.com/kbase/uploads/2452242.pdf .

Next you need to purchase a SWM switch like this one. And a power inserter like this one. Of course you only need one power supply, but this price is about the same as a single inserter. And you need the 29 volt version for the stand-alone switch. And finally, you need a SWM splitter like this one. That's $47 for all the parts. And you should get new coax for the feed from the carryout to your motorhome. The manual gives you all the information you need for the connections. (You may not even need the splitter if your A/B switch is wired ahead of a splitter that should already be in your system for use with your Trav'ler dish on the roof. Just be sure your power inserter is between the A/B switch and your carryout. You do not want any of the voltage getting into the system between the A/B switch and your Trav'ler dome.)

You can mount the PI somewhere in your coach so you don't need an extension cord out to the carryout. And DirecTV does recommend solid core copper coax for the powered part of your coax run. The cheaper copper cladded coax is great for RF frequencies (TV band stuff) but lousy for the 29 volt part of the equation.

Oh, and the reason the HR24 goes into error mode when you try to add it to your existing system is that you still need a conventional switch to make all 3 tuners work on your carryout dish. So, you still need to spend some money to make that option work if you want to use that method. It is just more hassle than converting your carryout to SWM.

I hope this moves you a bit closer to your solution.
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Old 08-17-2015, 09:34 PM   #5
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Hey, thanks for all that information and description for the SWM switch. This will give me a project for winter time when nothing else is going on. Undoubtedly the dealer must have been using full retail prices, and I notice from you link that the SWM switch sells for $30 but full price is $139. And on the diagram the dealer had from Winegard it showed a Heavy Duty Wideband A/B switch they claimed sold for $136 itself (but since each receiver has it's own A/B switch for changing between dishes I never understood why the need for that A/B switch). Then they claimed 4 hours labor for $380 and $20 sales tax.

It looks like, as you stated, since all I need is the SWM switch, inserter, and SWM splitter, all of these should mount in the electrical compartment where Newmar installed the connections for campground cable, and living room receiver and bedroom receiver from outside satellite dish.

I'm Bookmarking your post so I can find it easily later. Thanks again.
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Old 08-18-2015, 10:12 AM   #6
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Glad I could be of some assistance. DirecTV has changed things around quite a bit with SWM and it will take time for all previous technologies to marry up. Now you have something to help keep you busy this winter.
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