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Old 09-09-2014, 08:34 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by livesound View Post
I agree with you Gordon. And good point on the other point of what other services a cg provides.
I am out with a client on a 45 city tour and 35 days into it I have yet to hit a hotel I can't stream in. I think for the most part any chain hotel is up to speed on it now. Of cours a year Ago and I believe only about half would I be able to.

But my point still stands that the tech is going that way, it frustrates me I can't buy my trusty Microsoft office software on a disc any more. Or half the music or movie that is 5 years old. They are all expecting us to get it on line and be dependent on things like wifi or yes I use my phone for internet to my computer as well.

Sorry I rambled Again
I believe we are on the same page when it comes to technology. I will do a bit of a ramble as well as this is one of the issues I feel quite strongly about.

I worked for many years providing custom software to clients. I quite often joked that Bill Gates owed me a couple nights in his house for all of the problems I endured with Microsoft software. I spent hours installing updates, doing system restores, recovering from system crashes, etc. Yearly I could expect to do a full format and reinstall. Each new Microsoft release was viewed with dread as to what the next problem would be. The value of each new version of the product was questionable, but it built Bill a really nice house.

The fact that software has migrated to the cloud has nothing to do with anything except control and the chase for the dollar. Software has bloated requiring the purchase of larger and larger computers to handle the computing requirements. Of course computer manufacturers benefit from the power creep so they are on board.

Some folks accept and even anticipate the next new hardware release. People are already lining up at Apple stores in anticipation of buying the next new smartphone (and they have not announced what it is yet). Most of us are not happy with the "its already out of date when you buy it" game that is being pushed upon us.

Instead of looking at the delivery man (internet) we should be calling the producer (software) onto the carpet. I much prefer (as it appears you do) to have the software discs in my possession. I refuse to store any of my backups in the cloud preferring to use my tried and trusted backup procedures that I and I alone control. And don't get me started on Windows 360. I am considering migrating to freeware when they no longer are supporting the software I currently use and quite like.

The internet could not have anticipated the volume of information it would carry when it was created. Daily improvements make the chasing of technology costly and constant. CG owners will try to adapt and conform to the changing requirements but IMO it will probably take some time and may not be accomplished.

We winter in the Yuma area. My observation is limited but the occupancy rate is down significantly (our park was not full for the first time in 10 years) and many that show up arrive later and leave earlier. Does not bode well for major campground improvements. Unless the rates go up significantly.
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Old 09-09-2014, 11:14 AM   #44
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We are in KOA campground and get a whopping 1-Mbps WOW!
Not only that but it comes and goes.
A renter here told me the owner eats bandwidth with downloads. Why not it's hers and she shares her wifi doth campers.
Had an electronics engineer tell me the antenna was wrong as was the coax. Said it was definitely home done cheaped out system that was losing about 2 gigs of bandwidth in coax.
I don't call that free wifi, it's more like catch if you can almost wifi.
I get better connection in parking lots at hotels and restaurants that offer a better service albeit for a more limited time exposure.
If you cannot give a good product that is usable don't advertise it - even if free.
BTW $45/night ain't all that cheap, only the owner is too cheap to do it right.


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Old 09-09-2014, 11:16 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandG-Fun View Post
Since there are obviously many folks looking for a real broadband WiFi experience it would be good if someone started a sticky documenting CG's that are providing high quality Internet.

Agree! They advertise as come on, so let's see which ones measure up!


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Old 09-09-2014, 12:08 PM   #46
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Wifi is the 21st century version of Free Colour TV from back in the day. How happy would people have been if there was only a limited numbers of colours available, or if it was only available at the motel office?
The internet, like colour TV, is here to stay. Offer it or don't, but if you do it should work with no caveats.


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Old 09-09-2014, 12:45 PM   #47
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I agree with the OP and sorta shake my head in wonder at the posters who say "the infrastructure is not here yet" - not trying to flame but that is completely wrong.

Shoot, our downtown park and greenway has 26mbps down 6 up free wifi, so don't tell me a CG can't do the same!
McDonalds have WIFI good enough to stream video, so don't tell me a CG can't do the same!
Virtually every hotel I travel to on business has MEGA fast WIFI, so don't tell me a CG can't do the same!

The sad fact is CGs are too cheap to invest in the couple $1,000 it costs to put up a quality WIFI net.

We stayed at a CG in KY - in Cave City, right outside of Mammouth Cave (Singing Hills to be exact ) that had a absolutely rock solid WIFI setup with repeaters. We were even able to log in with our Apple TV and stream content all evening.

SO, if a mom & pop camp in po-dunk KY can do it, there is no excuse for other CGs.

Like the OP, it is -3 stars for poor WIFI. In 2014, it is as critical a need as that 50AMP recepticle is
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Old 09-09-2014, 01:07 PM   #48
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First of all, to the person who told me I was all wrong...with all due respect, how can I be wrong when I simply shared what I do. I think you need to read my original post again. Maybe I AM wrong to support 3mpbs at RV sites spread across 18 acres of dense pine trees. Not a trivial task.

One of the issues with all this is that MANY campgrounds - despite what Livesound claims - DO NOT have access to sufficient backhaul to support a streaming environment. I know - I was in the campground wifi business. MOST of my clients did not have backhaul above 10-20 mbps. Some did - but most did not. Campgrounds are not located in the same places as most hotel/motel complexes and face significant challenges with backhaul. The situation is gradually improving, but not as fast as it might. Campground also have sites spread over many acres - hotels do not. It is not a simple or cheap task to properly install coverage in many campgrounds. Hotels are trivial to shoot,in comparison. Unless they are all interior block walls. That is more challenging, but still relatively simple by comparison.
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Old 09-09-2014, 01:24 PM   #49
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I am a full timer traveling 7-8 months and staying no longer then a week in any one place so I think I can safely post my experience with "Free Wifi".

The following is my experience with over 95% of the campgrounds that I stay at. Very few have really usable wifi.

Most campgrounds now advertise that they offer free wifi but what they don't tell you is that:
  1. It will be slower then dial up.
  2. You have to come to the office to use it because it won't reach your site.
  3. It will be slower then dial up.
  4. They will monitor your usage and throttle you down to less then dial up if you insist on reading more then one email per day and visiting more then two websites.
  5. It will be slower then dial up.
  6. I won't go to a campground that uses Tengonet!
  7. It will constantly drop out to the point of sheer frustration.
  8. It will be slower then dial up.
It's free so stop complaining. So what if you can't get on, it's free.

My feelings are simple: I get decent water pressure, good electric and free flowing sewage hookups. Wifi is no longer an extra, it should be considered a necessity. It's how the world communicates. It should be totally usable, not minimal as a token offering. I drop as much as 3 points when I review a park on RVParkReviews. If I want to stream a movie or send out 10 emails, I should be able to. I expect it just like I'm home in a brick and mortar.

Am I being to fussy over "free wifi"?
I haven't read all the posts yet. My solution for fulltimers is using Millenicom. The are are mifi hotspot using Verizon Towers.
If a camp ground advertised free WiFi, I would only expect the same as Starbuck, or McDonalds. Just inside the building. Yes you are being way too fussy. Its not false advertising. Fulltime means being self-sufficient.
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:11 PM   #50
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OK, here we go with some facts. Just checked into Creekside RV Park, Pigeon Forge, TN. $45 per night before 10% Good Sam discount. I inquired about the quality of the wifi when I checked in. Counter person told me he could watch Netflix. Sounds good. 112 sites. Many unoccupied sites. Paved interior roads, gravel sites with concrete patio. Decent space between sites. A nice campground. Lots of competition in the area.

Now reality. First thing was to run a speed test. Only page open was Speedtest.net. Ping - 46, Download .63 mbps, didn't register upload speed. Ran a 2nd time. Ping - 31, Download - .81 Mbps, Upload - .14 Mbps! Loaded Outlook. Click the latest email from IRV2 on this topic, took 48.6 seconds to load! This is primarily a text page! With this, I cannot send any attachment with an email.

Who would be satisfied with this? If you put up with this and give excuses for the cg's, then you are part of the problem, you accept inferior service.

Since I travel extensively, I will post to this thread every campground I encounter until I get back to Daytona where I will be for about six weeks then I start my traveling again.

I do full time and DO expect when a cg states "free wifi" that it is actually usable! Everybody is entitled to their opinion and this is mine!
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:38 PM   #51
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Old 09-09-2014, 04:37 PM   #52
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I agree with the OP and sorta shake my head in wonder at the posters who say "the infrastructure is not here yet" - not trying to flame but that is completely wrong.

Shoot, our downtown park and greenway has 26mbps down 6 up free wifi, so don't tell me a CG can't do the same!
McDonalds have WIFI good enough to stream video, so don't tell me a CG can't do the same!
Virtually every hotel I travel to on business has MEGA fast WIFI, so don't tell me a CG can't do the same!

The sad fact is CGs are too cheap to invest in the couple $1,000 it costs to put up a quality WIFI net.

We stayed at a CG in KY - in Cave City, right outside of Mammouth Cave (Singing Hills to be exact ) that had a absolutely rock solid WIFI setup with repeaters. We were even able to log in with our Apple TV and stream content all evening.

SO, if a mom & pop camp in po-dunk KY can do it, there is no excuse for other CGs.

Like the OP, it is -3 stars for poor WIFI. In 2014, it is as critical a need as that 50AMP recepticle is
You can't compare a campground with only 40 sites in a small area, or a MacDonald's or a hotel to some campground with hundreds of sites spread out over many acres of land. If you think a couple of thousand will do it, then you probably won't believe your city spent hundreds of thousands of dollars(your tax dollars at work) to give you that "free WiFi".
The infrastructure is here only if you are wiling to pay for it. Ask yourself, why don't we have free WiFi in every major city? Because the cost is prohibitive.
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Old 09-09-2014, 05:55 PM   #53
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Actually, the cost of putting up the APs is not all that bad. But it does add up. Worse is the cost of securing the network, providing electrical to all the APs, etc. I typically use Cisco ISAs in most networks I have done. That alone is over $1000. But all in all you can do a decent network for $5K, more or less, if you do not have too many APs and other issues. Then add the price of the backhaul. And once you are done add the price for maintaining it. If there is no one there to do it that can be the largest ongoing expense.

And, after all the hassle, and expense, you will have a CONSTANT stream of customers at the front desk complaining about the network, or saying they cannot get connected. CONSTANT. Nine times out of ten the "non-connect" issue is the customers problem. Plus you will be running a network consultancy for your customers - as much as you will try not to. This is why some smaller parks remove the wifi, even though it is working just fine.
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Old 09-10-2014, 02:30 AM   #54
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Again Gordon we are on te same page.

Let me give you an example of the campgrounds I was staying. Treetops in Austin tx, and in arrlington tx, both those camp grounds are very nice. And I believe a couple hundred sights. Did I mention in town, oh and covered by both att as google fiber that offer 1 tb business service.
Let me do the math, 40 to 60 a night for 10 nights a month that averages 500 a month. Internet infrastructure is about 10k. One camper covers the cost in 2 years, that's one guy.

By the way what I do for a living is production manage large concert events. We bring in portable wifi to very rural places all the time. People like rhino and sky beam can direct line of site you enough band width to cover 10k people. People like time warner and att jump at businesses that are rural that will be there for 20 years. Shoot at our shop 26 miles outside of Austin, us and 5 neighbors signed a 6 year deal with them, at 300
Per month each and the ran 42 miles of cable to get us a guaranteed 100mb service each. So aside from really nice spots that are in the Rockies or Yosemite I don't see it really. And as far as covering acreage, the direct line of site stuff is pretty good at that. I know our nearest tower is 5 miles away and services hundreds of customers for a 15 down and 5 up service. I know the old owner and I know the smaller towers were under 10k and that's what covered us. So again if these line of site companies can cover the vast regions of texas I don't see how a cg is any different. 1 tower covers a county several hundred customer. And countless acres.

But I will say my knowledge of that is only in texas. And I'm not a pro that's why we hire contractors, but the guys who bring the service to festivals don't charge anything that outlandish. So the gear can't cost that much gaged on conversations with them and there rental rates, that also cover permitting fees and labor ect.
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:08 AM   #55
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Actually, the cost of putting up the APs is not all that bad. But it does add up. Worse is the cost of securing the network, providing electrical to all the APs, etc. I typically use Cisco ISAs in most networks I have done. That alone is over $1000. But all in all you can do a decent network for $5K, more or less, if you do not have too many APs and other issues. Then add the price of the backhaul. And once you are done add the price for maintaining it. If there is no one there to do it that can be the largest ongoing expense.

And, after all the hassle, and expense, you will have a CONSTANT stream of customers at the front desk complaining about the network, or saying they cannot get connected. CONSTANT. Nine times out of ten the "non-connect" issue is the customers problem. Plus you will be running a network consultancy for your customers - as much as you will try not to. This is why some smaller parks remove the wifi, even though it is working just fine.
I agree, Jack.

Remember the number of folks with flashing time on their VCR players, they couldn't figure out how to set the time? These are the same folks who now complain about bandwidth. There are CG's that have insufficient bandwidth, of course. If you don't have an antenna to augment your reception then you are not giving yourself a chance at good reception. Home work: Discover the properties of a Faraday Cage.

I stayed at hotels about 180 night a year, when I was working. Holiday Inns to Hiltons. Bandwidth was unrelated to the quality of the hotel.

Reality is the CG WiFi is usually farmed out and run by someone besides that CG manager. Many of these companies have little accountability, they are perfectly willing to accept payment for a service that is poorly provided. I use Verizon as they are accountable to me.

YMMV
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:24 AM   #56
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We were at Fairview-Riverside state park just north of Lake Ponchatrain and the wifi antenna was MAYBE 50 foot away ?

I used my company supplied Verizon air card because the wifi was horrible

When it comes time to give up the company stuff, I will get my own hotspot...
just wait though, in two weeks the technology will change...
we might even have have wireless electricity by then
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