OTA antenna recommendation

[ladagobago]

we have the sensar amplified antenna and am very satisfied with reception. We had an omni antenna on our boat but truthfully was the worst reception. to much with reflected signals etc.

I have been OVA user of TV broadcast since 1979 when comcast went from $4.50 monthly to $4.75. Just could not see the value since we could pick up all the channels broadcast from either NYC or Philly. Never Went Back. No have the same Radio shack yagi on the mast for over 35 plus years and guess what --- Still picks up TV signals. Funny thing about antennas they just dont wear out.

The really funny story is that many of my younger relative can not figure out how I watch TV without CABLE. Best of all we record several channel at one time with our homemade Tivo computer with a 2.4 teribyte HD>

When at GE worked on parabolic antennas and also aegis development in Syracuse. man that was 50 years ago.

[gruelens]

Another vote for the King JACK antenna. Yes it is directional ..... yes it does an outstanding job!

[Winegard1]

Originally Posted by RonNBama

Thanks for the recommendations. Winegard1, when you say the new antenna will pick up signals from "the front and back", does this imply that the antenna must be "pointed" just like the existing wing-type?

I may have used improper terminology when I stated "omni" directional. I envisioned a 360-degree reception coverage.

The Rayzar Air is a flat antenna with two sides.




As you can see there, the "front" would be the side with the Winegard logo that would face forward when this antenna goes up. Obviously the "back" would be the opposing side facing the rear when the antenna goes up. If you are in the middle of towers to the east and the west, you should be able to pick up both groups of towers. As long as the front or rear of the antenna is facing the direction of the towers you are picking up, and they are in range, it should work. With the Sensar you would have to aim it at one group or the other. The Sensar is directional, and the Rayzar Air is bi-directional. The only dead spots on the Rayzar Air would be to the side directions that the antenna is not facing. Page 4 and Page 5 of the manual illustrate this well.

[Jim A]

I have the Rayzar Air antenna, and am very happy with it. It raises, lowers, and turns easier than the Sensar. I kept the Sensar IV in case I was not happy with the Rayzar, and I am not likely to put it back on.

Crude measurements I took with the Sensar IV before I removed it showed the Rayzar might be a little bit weaker, but not much. But less sensitive to direction. All my stations for my test were the same direction, so I rotated the antenna 180°, and got the same signal strength. So I believe Winegard1.

But I use OTA to supplement Directv when I want to get local stations while traveling, or when I am in the trees and can't get a satellite signal. So I am not "desperate" to get stations from extreme distances. If I get them, I get them. If not, so be it.

[RonNBama]

Ahhhhh, I did not look up an image of the Rayzr beforehand. Now I understand the "front/back, bi-directional" description. I agree with Jim. I use my OTA to supplement DTV. Even added a controller that allows me to watch/record the OTA signals. However, my primary issue is the inability to control (rotate) my perfectly fine wing antenna.

[SCVJeff]

Originally Posted by RonNBama

Thanks for the recommendations. Winegard1, when you say the new antenna will pick up signals from "the front and back", does this imply that the antenna must be "pointed" just like the existing wing-type?

I may have used improper terminology when I stated "Omni" directional. I envisioned a 360-degree reception coverage.

That is the correct terminology for an Omni. BUT, an Omni directional antenna is BY FAR the worst choice you could possibly make, otherwise they would be in common use in residential. They have no passive gain, they cannot reject reflections, and those are the two reasons that either the Batwing or the Jack will run circles around any Omni on the market. The Razor is inbetween these two classes and has an hourglass pattern, hence has slightly more gain then an Omni, and better multipath rejection, but again nothing close to a true directional antenna.

[wa8yxm]

Originally Posted by Winegard1

That is correct we will be releasing the new Rayzar Automatic here very soon. If you are looking for something omnidirectional, I would highly recommend waiting for this to come out. Should be in the very near future. As far as the Rayzar Air, it doubles your coverage. It is a bi-directional antenna meaning it will receive the towers in both the front and rear of the antenna. That doesn't necessarily mean its going to double your channels unless there are just as many towers in the rear as there were in the front of your Sensar. If you are looking to get the lo-VHF channels 2-6, the Rayzar Air would not be your choice. You would go with an antenna that can pick up the lo-VHF signal like the Sensar IV.

Ok you answered one of my questions about the Rayzar Air,, not many stations still live in the VHF Lo band but "Not many" is still more than ZERO

on VHF hi and UHF how does the new Rayzar compare with a Sensar II or III + Wingman (and I use a Sensar Pro too).

How do I tell a Sensar II from III?

And glad to see a corporate presence here from Winegard since Bill is gone.

[SCVJeff]

Actually its allot more than "not many", AND one of the options of the band repack coming up is to pay stations to relocate OFF UHF, and BACK onto the VHF band. That means its going to be way more crowded than it presently is. I have brought this up on other strings that a Winegard rep is part of with zero response, so ill continue to do it until I get someones attention.

This is one of those things that manufacturers don't follow because they are not broadcasters and have no vested interest in. TV's are obviously ready to go, but antennas are a different issue. But the fact if the matter is that this WILL happen, and any antenna manufacturer is taking a step backward by removing antenna performance on VHF. And that includes King Control's Jack antenna.

[SCVJeff]

BTW- where can we find real antenna test specs? Have they ever been done?

[Clayobx]

Originally Posted by mel s

Clayobx
I have my original 18 year old amplified Winegard batwing with a Wingman attached.
It gets hunderds of channels..... but I have to drive to, and park in. a lot of different cities and/or states to do that, (but I don't mind because I often travel anyway).

Are you saying you get 56 channels in one location?
Where might that be?

Mel
'96 Safari

Mel,

OTA King Jack antenna, new install. Just loaded the new LG TV. Fifty four stations +, location Titusville, Mims, FL. Zip area 32796,

[ladagobago]

this repack of channels may be very difficult as many other companies have migrated to this band and have licence to operate there. these include "little"??? international companies like sennhiezer and other who manufacture transmitters for microphone, security system, blue tooth, and other unlicensed transmitters.

this is just typical FCC and government MUCKUP They did the same thing about 15 years ago when they changed the frequency of security systems devices. made all the old stuff obsolete. my customers went mad when we had to tell them sorry but you have to change your entire system as the parts are no longer available because the FCC made rule changes.

Now they will mess up by packing channel three and four with licencees and there will be unlicensed transmitter out there operating interference.

[TomBr]

I have kind of picked up the understanding that the Sensar is most demanding in being pointed exactly at a station but will pick up distant stations best if pointed exactly at them, things like the Jack and Razar have more latitude in aiming but pick up weak signals less well, and omnidirectional versions art only good for short distances and with few reflecting sources around them but don't have to be aimed at all. Is that reasonably accurate? The Sensar Pro box, I understand, greatly helps with aiming exactly.

[SCVJeff]

Originally Posted by TomBr

I have kind of picked up the understanding that the Sensar is most demanding in being pointed exactly at a station but will pick up distant stations best if pointed exactly at them, things like the Jack and Razar have more latitude in aiming but pick up weak signals less well, and omnidirectional versions art only good for short distances and with few reflecting sources around them but don't have to be aimed at all. Is that reasonably accurate? The Sensar Pro box, I understand, greatly helps with aiming exactly.

Everything is a tradeoff. You don't need to be pointed “exactly” at the transmitter provided it’s strong enough in the 1st place. Using an example with the Jack, it has less gain on UHF, and significantly less gain on VHF than the Batwing. So apples to apples signal wise I would say that the perceived beamwidth should feel about the same. Now if you are working with a really weak station, accuracy counts on both of them. Because you really do need to find that peak, and yes the Batwing is sharper because it’s a higher performance antenna on both VHF and UHF. If all you want is urban TV reception, get a Razor, or a Jack. If you’re trying for the distant stations, no RV antenna beats the Batwing. Personally I want the highest performing system I can build and KNOW that if I can’t receive it, nobody else can either. I’ve done the testing with real instruments under real world conditions, and have the numbers to back it up. The Razor might be next, but it’s really not in the same class as the other two.

BTW- After watching what a nice coastal breeze does to a Razor antenna, there is no way I would ever install one. All 3 of these antennas were facing the wind and getting banged around to the point that all were finally retracted, where all the Batwings and Jack antennas hardly noticed.

[SCVJeff]

Originally Posted by ladagobago

this repack of channels may be very difficult as many other companies have migrated to this band and have licence to operate there. these include "little"??? international companies like sennhiezer and other who manufacture transmitters for microphone, security system, blue tooth, and other unlicensed transmitters.

this is just typical FCC and government MUCKUP They did the same thing about 15 years ago when they changed the frequency of security systems devices. made all the old stuff obsolete. my customers went mad when we had to tell them sorry but you have to change your entire system as the parts are no longer available because the FCC made rule changes.

Now they will mess up by packing channel three and four with licencees and there will be unlicensed transmitter out there operating interference.

The band is still clear as the sacrificial lambs ARE the wireless Mic/ IFB/ PL industry and will have to move into whatever’s left open in any given city they reside, but it aint gonna be easy. There is very little, if any representation within that industry with the exception of 3 or 4 manufacturers, users for the most part have no clue, or could care less what the rules say. Probably the same or worse in the security industry.