WIFI Extenders

[APhotoWizard]

Originally Posted by docj

WiFiRanger maintains an encrypted conduit with its devices in a manner similar to that used for firmware updating for many web-enabled products. Virtually any device, such as a Smart TV, that suddenly discovers it has an update available has been notified by its manufacturer through a similar such conduit.

This conduit also allows our Customer Support personnel the ability to assist customers who, for example, have forgotten their passwords or have otherwise made settings changes that make their systems inoperable, just as they did for you when you created a problem by changing the names of your SSIDs. To put it into perspective, it's similar to how On*Star unlocks a vehicle when the owner has left his keys inside.

But having this conduit has nothing to do with allowing not allowing customers access to all of the features of the device. In fact, I'm pretty sure that you could have done exactly what the Customer Support team did for you if you had connected your laptop to the indoor router via Ethernet cable. They simply saved you the trouble of doing that. Furthermore, they were operating in accordance with our policies by not providing you access to the conduit in order to ensure that you didn't have the capability of interfering with the operation of other people's Rangers.

As for the device being put out of operation by a "rogue" employee, I think that is a bit of a stretch. Any changes made by anyone, either the owner or our support team, can easily be reversed by following the procedure for performing a factory reset which can be done with no direct access to the equipment.

WiFiRangers currently provide secure, reliable WiFi communications for tens of thousands of customers and are available as OEM equipment on many lines of RVs sold in the US. We're sorry that our products didn't meet your needs.

Joel (AKA docj)

Joel - Thank you for your kind reply. You and I have very different opinions of security. I understand that a back door is a convenient method of helping people that really need help, but a simple switch on the side of the equipment the user could flip to allow access would have made me much happier. Then I could look at the device and be assured no unauthorized access was possible.

I have been developing networks since the 1980's and I have seen what happens with these helpful back doors and I will never run a system with such a "feature". Further, I can not recommend any one else do so either. Further, I am more worried about having a single key that fits every device made.

As for your Onstar example, I will never have one of those on my car either for the same reason. While Onstar is a brand name, Jeep has a similar system. Did you see the video where hackers broke into a Jeep and caused it to put on brakes, speed up and eventually run off the road? Jeep has since patched that problem, but when will the next one be found?

As for rogue employees, if an employee has a key that fits all devices and they decide to cause trouble, all they have to do is download bogus software then change the password. The device is broken until it is returned to the factory or the encryption is broken. I would never be party to creating a device with that capability. If you want to see what happens, look at the history of Cisco, the company that makes most of the large routers for the internet. They had a back door and they wished a thousand times over they had not done so. In their case it was a rogue engineer, in WIFIRangers case it is a corporate decision and it will not go well for the company when something finally happens, which if history is any indication, it certainly will.

I did have my computer connected with a ethernet cable. The problem required direct access to the external unit. Support told me that customer direct access to the external unit is not allowed. This is when I got into the security issue. As for me changing the SSID, I was following the instructions I was given. There was no warning about this problem in any documentation.

So a factory reset is available? Why was I not told of that feature and why did I not find it in the manual? I would have been delighted to solve my problem with a factory reset. Is it only available through the back door?

I understand there are many, many people who are very happy with the performances of the product. For that reason, I have kept my opinion to myself except for expressing it directly to the company. Apparently they have chosen to ignore me, as is their right.

I wish you and WiFI Ranger all the best. Further, I hope there is never any problem with any part of any installed system. As for me, I will look for a system I can secure with my own password, and one where I can access all features and correct problems without needing to call for support. I have seen companies go out of business and there are times when I will be where they have no access and I will still need my system to work.

[docj]

Originally Posted by APhotoWizard

So a factory reset is available? Why was I not told of that feature and why did I not find it in the manual? I would have been delighted to solve my problem with a factory reset. Is it only available through the back door?

Not that it matters to you any longer, but instructions for performing a factory reset are available on the WiFiRanger website, in case others were to need them:

https://wifiranger.com/images/guides...ults_Rev11.pdf

FWIW a factory reset can be performed by repeated rebooting of the device regardless of whether or not the user can communicate directly with the device.

As I did state in a subsequent post, a switch to turn off the encrypted "backdoor" access is planned for a future update to alleviate concerns of customers such as yourself.

[jlentz32]

Originally Posted by APhotoWizard

Joel - Thank you for your kind reply. You and I have very different opinions of security. I understand that a back door is a convenient method of helping people that really need help, but a simple switch on the side of the equipment the user could flip to allow access would have made me much happier. Then I could look at the device and be assured no unauthorized access was possible.



I have been developing networks since the 1980's and I have seen what happens with these helpful back doors and I will never run a system with such a "feature". Further, I can not recommend any one else do so either. Further, I am more worried about having a single key that fits every device made.

.

Quick question regarding this:
If the WiFi ranger was setup as wan with a secured lan behind a proper firewall like pfsense or unfi usg the backdoor in theory would not be an issue right?

[vsheetz]

Yes, they work.

How well they work depends on the CG wifi, which is often working poorly and/or overloaded.

I have used several. I like the Alpha Camp Pro for simplicity of setup, good performance, and good feature. Buy from TechnoRV for good support.

We use a cellular hotspot nearly all the time. Unlimited dara plan.

[docj]

Originally Posted by jlentz32

Quick question regarding this:
If the WiFi ranger was setup as wan with a secured lan behind a proper firewall like pfsense or unfi usg the backdoor in theory would not be an issue right?

There's very little need to "protect" your network from the encrypted conduit that exists between a WiFiRanger and its server, but you can add as many layers of protection as you wish. The conduit is used to send some data to the Ranger and it facilitates functions such as the SafeSurf VPN but it doesn't provide access to data flowing to and from the Ranger nor does it contain location information which might disclose your whereabouts. It's all a question of what degree of concern you wish to exercise relative to such things.

[jlentz32]

Originally Posted by vsheetz

Yes, they work.

How well they work depends on the CG wifi, which is often working poorly and/or overloaded.

I have used several. I like the Alpha Camp Pro for simplicity of setup, good performance, and good feature. Buy from TechnoRV for good support.

We use a cellular hotspot nearly all the time. Unlimited dara plan.

Apparently the sky4 can take a cell modem as well. I was hoping that could handle things when the campground WiFi sucks. Or boondocking.

Verizon unlimited sounds to be the way to go.

[Brecklundin]

i think though the issue was somewhat different it goes to the arbitrary erosion of privacy....same rules could be used to justify electronic intrusion into a private network.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ap...=mmx&PC=EMMX20

It's an interesting situation worth follow i think.

Im sure we all remember the original PGP dust up because the US powers that be couldn't hack the encryption. PGP was strong armed into providing a lower grade encryption (or something similar) in the US version. To me that was the start of what's being discussed here.

[docj]

Originally Posted by jlentz32

Apparently the sky4 can take a cell modem as well. I was hoping that could handle things when the campground WiFi sucks. Or boondocking.

The SkyPro can have, as an option, an LTE modem with SIM. I believe the option must be specified at purchase and cannot be added later.

[jlentz32]

Originally Posted by docj

The SkyPro can have, as an option, an LTE modem with SIM. I believe the option must be specified at purchase and cannot be added later.

Damn. That sucks.

[jlentz32]

Originally Posted by Brecklundin

i think though the issue was somewhat different it goes to the arbitrary erosion of privacy....same rules could be used to justify electronic intrusion into a private network.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ap...=mmx&PC=EMMX20

It's an interesting situation worth follow i think.

Im sure we all remember the original PGP dust up because the US powers that be couldn't hack the encryption. PGP was strong armed into providing a lower grade encryption (or something similar) in the US version. To me that was the start of what's being discussed here.

Encrypt everything.

[jlentz32]

Originally Posted by docj

The SkyPro can have, as an option, an LTE modem with SIM. I believe the option must be specified at purchase and cannot be added later.

Upon thinking about this a bit more, that’s the dumbest choice I could think of for oem installs. Not being able to upgrade the modem card locks the rv buyer in with the only choice of upgrade being to tear it off and buy a brand new one. Probably from another vendor...

Which I guess I’m looking at anyway unless I can get a wired connection into the coach. Security issues aside, not everything has WiFi. (Specifically the media server with all the kids movies and shows on it.)

[docj]

Originally Posted by jlentz32

Upon thinking about this a bit more, that’s the dumbest choice I could think of for oem installs. Not being able to upgrade the modem card locks the rv buyer in with the only choice of upgrade being to tear it off and buy a brand new one. Probably from another vendor...

Which I guess I’m looking at anyway unless I can get a wired connection into the coach. Security issues aside, not everything has WiFi. (Specifically the media server with all the kids movies and shows on it.)

I don't think anyone said that the SIM can't be changed out after purchase, simply that the choice of having a modem and a slot for a SIM isn't something that can be retrofitted. If you buy an RV off of a dealer's lot it's most likely that its WiFiRanger will not have the LTE option.

[jlentz32]

Originally Posted by docj

I don't think anyone said that the SIM can't be changed out after purchase, simply that the choice of having a modem and a slot for a SIM isn't something that can be retrofitted. If you buy an RV off of a dealer's lot it's most likely that its WiFiRanger will not have the LTE option.

So, If I want cell service in my brand new 2019 Thor equipped with an oem wifiranger I need to rip it off and buy a new one.

That’s stupid.

[docj]

Originally Posted by jlentz32

So, If I want cell service in my brand new 2019 Thor equipped with an oem wifiranger I need to rip it off and buy a new one.

That’s stupid.

Does your Thor have both an inside Ranger and one on the roof? If so you can tether your cellular hotspot or phone to the inside router using a USB cable. If you don't then use WiFi to connect between your hotspot and the Ranger.

Having an LTE SIM on the roof isn't really such a big deal; there's no amplification associated with it; it receives a slightly stronger signal because of placement but that's all.