Winegard Roadtrip Mission --False advertising

[Statgeek]

Ok folks.. I have a new RV that came with a Winegard RoadTrip Mission satellite. This is an in-motion satellite system that is wired into two locations in my coach--the living room and the master bedroom.

I am sharing page 5 of the manual to illustrate what I believe to be misleading at best, or possibly false advertising depending on how you interpret "advertising." Sorry that it is sideways.. don't know how to rotate it on this forum.

Here's my problem.. This product (see bottom of page 5 picture) is clearly sold as a two-room unit. There are two co-ax cables pictured to come out of the satellite, and it the picture shows that each gets connected to its own receiver and television, and (look at that picture!) can each tune to different programs. Sounds awesome, right?

... Winegard does state in point #3 of the installation steps (something that is usually/often done by the RV companies, not us consumers) slightly above that picture that the secondary receiver will not "toggle."

Anyone know what that means? I surely didn't until I called Winegard.

That means that the Winegard "two-room" satellite system will not rotate the satellite to a different position for that second room. So, they say, the second room will only bring in channels that the primary TV has already positioned the satellite for! I do not interpret that as two independent rooms/systems, so at best, they are being misleading. I would call this false advertising. BTW, I haven't verified that the second room will work this way yet (see below), but I'll check it tonight. Now that I know what "toggle" means though, I suspect that this information is accurate.

Now.. if you have one of these systems, I can tell you that even installing that second receiver by walking through the steps in the Winegard manual will probably not work--because it depends on where the satellite happened to be pointing after you installed the primary unit! Let me tell you, I discovered this completely by accident after several hours of frustration.

I did get some helpful info from Winegard to share. Basically, you need to set up each receiver using the PRIMARY coax line. So set up your first receiver for the family room, get it all working, then disconnect it entirely and set up the secondary receiver, but do so in the FAMILY ROOM again. This is the only way that the Dish receiver (possibly DirectTV too?) will be able to install the necessary software that it needs, because it needs to be able to rotate the WineGard dish in order to do so. Once the installation is successful, remove that receiver and put it in the other room, and you are better off, but STILL not fully functional.

Winegard tells me that if you go through the above calisthenics, now that secondary receiver has the software that it needs to recognize signals from multiple satellites.. but it still cannot toggle (move) the Winegard dish. So for that back room to get channels, the front room must first point the Winegard dish accordingly. Then both TV's can watch a program from the same satellite.

I politely suggested that the Winegard documentation needs to be more clear about the limitations of their "two-room" system, but their counter argument was that both rooms could be watching different programs, as long as they are both received from the same satellite. True. But that's a far cry from two independent systems. The front TV has command of the pointing, so if that one switches channels, the back TV looses signal. Furthermore... who wants to get out of bed to watch a BEDROOM TV and then change channels in the living room to match the bedroom? Particularly with IR remotes that require line of site, which is what comes with the only Dish receivers that work with Winegard?

Now... I did not choose the Winegard product--it came with my RV. But for those of you considering buying a satellite, do so with this piece of knowledge. If there are other products out there that can have true two-room capabilities (both rooms can "toggle" the dish), then I would buy that product over a Winegard. Even if one room "takes over" if the two rooms compete for a satellite, at least you know that when you are using the secondary TV alone, it can have full functionality.

Not being one to roll over and die quickly, I also asked if I used a CoAx splitter on that primary line, would both of the units share the toggle capabilities. WineGard said no because use of a splitter would render both signals dead.

Rant complete. Use or ignore the info... If anyone found a workaround yet, please share it.

[Harry B]

This problem is not unique to Winegard. All the dome manufactures have this problem due to the physical restrictions of the domes.
The Winegard SK series does not have this problem but is not an inmotion antenna.

[firedoc]

We have a WG traveller dish system. It is not a in motion unit! But it picks up all three satellites at the same time and does not have to 'toggle'. We have a VIP211k in both the living area and bedroom and have true '2 room function'. Can watch different channels on different satellites at the same .

[texnet]

The small size of all in-motion satellite antennas (dishes) limit the ability to receive mutliple satellite signals at the same time. However, BOTH of your receivers will receive different channels on the SAME satellite at the same time.

Example using Directv... Dish would work the same way. If I am watching the History channel on channel 269 which uses Sat 101, then I can watch Fox Business on channel 359 since both use the same satellite.

Maybe the documentation needs to be refined but IMHO it is not misleading advertising.

[RickO]

Yeah, sorry that the misunderstanding caused frustration for you but, as mentioned, this is a function of your antenna being a dome... and not unique to Winegard.

Although a bit of a pain, so long as you don't need to watch different programming, from different satellites, on both sets at the same time... you might use a work around.

If your front/primary receiver needs to be on a certain channel(s) for the BR receiver to receive the desired channel, you could set up the front receiver with an RF remote and just change the channel on the front receiver to toggle the dish when you want to watch a channel in the BR requiring a toggle. Yes it means two remotes and no you can't get unlimited flexibility to watch different programming on the two sets at the same time but it might beat having to pony up $1500/1800 for a Slimline open face dish.

I use a single receiver to feed all three of my sets and use RF remotes in the BR and outside. They work great but I have DirecTv. I don't know if Dish offers this capability.

Best of luck.

Rick

[SarahW]

Originally Posted by texnet

The small size of all in-motion satellite antennas (dishes) limit the ability to receive mutliple satellite signals at the same time. However, BOTH of your receivers will receive different channels on the SAME satellite at the same time.

Example using Directv... Dish would work the same way. If I am watching the History channel on channel 269 which uses Sat 101, then I can watch Fox Business on channel 359 since both use the same satellite.

Maybe the documentation needs to be refined but IMHO it is not misleading advertising.

Exactly. We have the KVH TracVision "slimline" dome and have the same limitations. It says "supports 2 receivers" but the fine print is that both receivers have to be on the same SATELLITE.

We decided not to bother with a second receiver, but simply use campground cable for the bedroom TV.

[DSL417]

Had In Motion...exactly the problem. DW wanted one channel on a different satellite than I had on in the front. Bounces her into the signal loss mode...10 mins sometimes to get it back.

Solution...Winegard Traveller. Now happy DW, no problems. Left the In Motion on the roof in case we want to switch back someday because there is something high priority on that we want to watch on the road...unlikely.

[Ed-Sommers]

Your understanding of the limitations of a Done type dish is limited, thats the real problem.

Ed

[Wayne M]

Originally Posted by Ed-Sommers

Your understanding of the limitations of a Done type dish is limited, thats the real problem.

Ed

Ed said it, not me.

However, it is pretty much common knowledge on this forum that there is no dome antenna on the market that will receive more than one satellite at a time. So if you are on DirectTV you will get all of their programming off of DirectTV satellite 119. However, if you are on DISH network you need to receive 3 satellites, 110, 119, and 129 for full reception off of a dome mounted antenna. It is possible to watch 2 different channels on 2 different receivers as long as the two signals are coming off of the same satellite.

Do not confuse DUAL LNB with DUAL Output LNB. A DUAL LNB has 2 horns, where as a DUAL Output LNB has one horn and two (splitter if you may) outputs. Only one of those outputs is a control output. That is why the second TV will not toggle the antenna.

Get a Traveler antenna (open faced) and put it in place of the dome for full receiver coverage.

Happy trails.

[Statgeek]

I'm glad to see such activity here.. My point was to help inform people that the Winegard Mission In-Motion dish does NOT fully operate two independent rooms, as I was led to believe both by the sales guy who explained it to me, and the Winegard documentation, especially the picture, the use of "toggle" language without explaining what it means, and the fact that "toggle" is only mentioned in the INSTALLATION part of the manual, which some of us may never see or pay attention to because we don't do the install. (I also didn't read the installation instructions for my microwave oven, stove, or any other appliance that came pre-installed on my coach.)

Others may disagree with me, but in my book, this is somewhere on the continuum between misinformation and false advertising. Even if you disagree though, what I like about this forum is that it enables us to share the information with others who agree, disagree, or are ambivalent.

Bottom line: Using the Winegard Mission in-motion hardware, combined with two Dish receivers, the "secondary" receiver/TV (often the master bedroom) will not be fully functional without also operating the "primary" receiver. You may get lucky, as others have pointed out, and want to watch two programs that share the same satellite. But since that's a "maybe" and not a "will be," it's not fully functional. That's what I'm hoping to make loud and clear, since Winegard is choosing not to do so.

[RickO]

Originally Posted by Statgeek

I'm glad to see such activity here.. My point was to help inform people that the Winegard Mission In-Motion dish does NOT fully operate two independent rooms, as I was led to believe both by the sales guy who explained it to me, and the Winegard documentation, especially the picture, the use of "toggle" language without explaining what it means, and the fact that "toggle" is only mentioned in the INSTALLATION part of the manual, which some of us may never see or pay attention to because we don't do the install. (I also didn't read the installation instructions for my microwave oven, stove, or any other appliance that came pre-installed on my coach.)

Others may disagree with me, but in my book, this is somewhere on the continuum between misinformation and false advertising. Even if you disagree though, what I like about this forum is that it enables us to share the information with others who agree, disagree, or are ambivalent.

Bottom line: Using the Winegard Mission in-motion hardware, combined with two Dish receivers, the "secondary" receiver/TV (often the master bedroom) will not be fully functional without also operating the "primary" receiver. You may get lucky, as others have pointed out, and want to watch two programs that share the same satellite. But since that's a "maybe" and not a "will be," it's not fully functional. That's what I'm hoping to make loud and clear, since Winegard is choosing not to do so.

And I think you've done a service to our members to point out the need to really take some time to understand equipment limitations when designing an AV system for our RVs.

I read through the Winegard model on your unit and agree that it should be much more clear on these limitations.

Thanks,

Rick

[Bill Davey]

I have the Winegard Mini-max dome antenna and Direct TV. Because Direct only uses one satellite for 90% of the USA, we can watch any channel on either of the 2 TV's served. HOWEVER, this antenna will not receive HD signals so neither TV will get channels that only broadcast in HD (such as the Velocity channel).

[InfinityJim]

Basically you're using a flip phone - domed satellite!

First off it sounds like your salesman didn't fully understood what he was selling you or didn't care and just wanted to move inventory. The only way or only person I've sold a dome to in the last few years (probably since 08') was if they really wanted In-motion and fully understand how it would work and what the limitations are. Dish-net has always been a problem for domes, directv was considered for many years the primary choice of providers for RV'ers by the industry. When 8 out 10 rv'ers where using directv everyone (SAT manufactures) where trying to build a better mouse trap - shoot I remember when every year about this time the reps would be in telling me "You just wait, when our next blah, blah, blah, dome hits the market, you'll be selling these like hotcakes because their so much better because of blah, blah, blah" - My reply was always the same, give me a demo unit to put on my coach, if it works as good as you say & I can watch tv while raining and stationary then yes, you're right, I will sell your unit. (stationary because the domes always work about the same In-motion, rain or shine) So needless to say, I have had almost every dome that has been built in the last 15 years on one of my coaches. Now since the pop-up was reintroduced, in about 08', problem solved. With a pop-up dish it solved all the issues except In-motion, and with dvr's and dvd's - I'm sure the kids can find something to watch while traveling and when we get there as long as an obstacle isn't blocking me then I'll have rock solid tv viewing no matter what the weather does while we're there

Yes flip phones still work and can do a fine job for what they where designed for, take them beyond that and it might work, might be really slow, but might work?

[Ed-Sommers]

I would think that IF you had purchased your satt system yourself, rather than having to just use what came with the RV, you would have been knowledgeable of the Dome's limitations.

I'm sure that some people that have a pilot lite type hot water heater, and expected an spark type automatic have been disappointed also, and may have so disillusioned so as to whine about it, it's just human nature I suppose.

Ed