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07-06-2013, 11:43 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Buxton, North Dakota
Posts: 3,940
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When using the 30 amp adapter all the current for both 120 volt legs goes through the neutral. It should be more than adequate but, seems to be the weak link.
__________________
2003 Winnebago Adventurer 38G F53/ V10 605 watts of Solar
1999 Winnebago Brave 35C F53V10 Handicap Equipped
1999 Jeep Cherokee, 1991 Jeep Wrangler Renegade and 2018 Chevrolet Equinox Diesel
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07-06-2013, 12:14 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Thor Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Hilley
When using the 30 amp adapter all the current for both 120 volt legs goes through the neutral. It should be more than adequate but, seems to be the weak link.
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We never had this problem before last weekend. I'm just doing what I can to figure out my end as the CG manager last weekend refused to see if the problem started at their end, in that the breaker to the site didn't break when it should have in an overload condition. This, I believe, may have ruined the Txfer Sw so that it is now causing problems for me. I don't know. My electrical knowledge is a mile wide but only an inch deep. Just doing what I can.
__________________
Stewart & Kim. 2011 Serrano 31V, MaxForce 7 w/ Allison 6 Sp. Fiat 500 Sport Diesel Pusher.
Surge Guard 3450, TST 510, Sliverleaf VMSpc, RVND 7710. Blue Ox Tow. 2010 Arctic Cat 700 TRV.
Someday your life may flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.
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07-06-2013, 12:51 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Thor Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 871
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So this is what I bought. Pro Point Autoranging Digital Multimeter with Clamp. From Princess Auto in Canada. We don't have Harbor Fright here.
Ummmm errrrr so ahhhhh now what do I do?
__________________
Stewart & Kim. 2011 Serrano 31V, MaxForce 7 w/ Allison 6 Sp. Fiat 500 Sport Diesel Pusher.
Surge Guard 3450, TST 510, Sliverleaf VMSpc, RVND 7710. Blue Ox Tow. 2010 Arctic Cat 700 TRV.
Someday your life may flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.
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07-06-2013, 01:10 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Buxton, North Dakota
Posts: 3,940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMDSailor
So this is what I bought. Pro Point Autoranging Digital Multimeter with Clamp. From Princess Auto in Canada. We don't have Harbor Fright here.
Ummmm errrrr so ahhhhh now what do I do?
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Set the meter to the appropriate current range, clamp around one of the black wires in the transfer switch. Note the current reading. Turn on the Ac and read the meter again. The difference will be what the AC draws. Also watch while the AC starts, you will see a large current draw as it starts. Have someone else start the AC so you can read the meter.
__________________
2003 Winnebago Adventurer 38G F53/ V10 605 watts of Solar
1999 Winnebago Brave 35C F53V10 Handicap Equipped
1999 Jeep Cherokee, 1991 Jeep Wrangler Renegade and 2018 Chevrolet Equinox Diesel
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07-06-2013, 01:10 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMDSailor
It is a 50 Amp coach but I'm, again, at a 30 Amp site. My potential problem started last week at another CG. Not to rehash that story, but I think that through one thing or another my Txfer Sw was damaged. As indicated I'm at a different CG this weekend and I'm still burning up my neutral wire when I have the AC on with nothing else running. It's about a billion deg F right now and it would have been nice to have atleast one AC working.
I have a new Txfer Sw on order but I'd still like to check the draw of the fwd AC to ensure its not drawing to many amps. It's rated at 20.
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While measuring current is a good idea under any circumstance, as you propose to do, as someone mentioned, if you have an EMS it should show current draw. If it does, and you could see the current and when you shut the AC off you could calculate the delta. The same applies to measuring with the clamp on meter.
You noted the transfer relay was faulty and was being replaced and the neutral wire gets hot right near the transfer switch. This could indicate a poor connection caused by bad relay contacts. You could bypass the relay by moving the connections so the relay is out of the circuit and then see if the wire still heats up. If there is enough slack in the wire you could just put them on the same terminal, or put a jumper across the relay wire of sufficient size to take the current.
One caution if you do bypass the relay, you must ensure the line from the Generator is disconnected at the relay so it does not connect to the pedistal power. VERY Important. Also very important no power is present when doing this but that is obvious I would think.
I did this once when I had a bad transfer relay and it was an expedient fix until I got a new relay. Of course when you leave the CG, you can put the genny wire back and operate of it, but do not plug back in to shore power until you have either put the new Switch on or disconnected the Genny wire again.
Oh you might want to measure the voltage also. While Ohms Law is absoulte wherein the current is directly proportional to the Voltage and inversly proportional to the resistance. In inductive loads such as a motor, if the voltage drops then the motor turns more slowly and less back EMF is produced hence the Impedence (resistance on a pure DC load) is reduced. This reduction in load impedence, causes and increase in current. So while on the surface it would seem that the reduction in Voltage causing a current increase would contravene Ohms Law, actually this is not the case because the resistance is decreased markedly in this scenario, thus causing an increase in Current as the voltage is dropped. So Low Voltage will cause increased current if the load impedance is reduced. (This should actually pop the circuit breaker on the AC.
Good luck on whatever your do, hope this info helps.
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07-06-2013, 01:26 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Thor Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libero
While measuring current is a good idea under any circumstance, as you propose to do, as someone mentioned, if you have an EMS it should show current draw. If it does, and you could see the current and when you shut the AC off you could calculate the delta. The same applies to measuring with the clamp on meter.
You noted the transfer relay was faulty and was being replaced and the neutral wire gets hot right near the transfer switch. This would indicate a poor connection and could be caused by bad relay contacts. You could bypass the relay by moving the connections so the relay is out of the circuit and then see if the wire still heats up. If there is enough slack in the wire you could just put them on the same terminal, or put a jumper across the relay wire of sufficient size to take the current.
On caution if you do bypass the relay, you must ensure the line from the Generator is disconnected at the relay so it does not connect to the pedistal power. VERY Important.
I did this once when I had a bad transfer relay and it was an expedient fix until I got a new relay. Of course when you leave the CG, you can put the genny wire back and operate of it, but do not plug back in to shore power until you have either put the new Switch on or disconnected the Genny wire again.
Good luck on whatever your do, hope this info helps.
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This seems to answer what I was just noodling around. Can I take the switch right out of the loop. Based on your post it would seem so. Thanks for that.
On edit. I don't have EMS, but I do have a SurgeGuard surge protector. Not the same beast I know.
__________________
Stewart & Kim. 2011 Serrano 31V, MaxForce 7 w/ Allison 6 Sp. Fiat 500 Sport Diesel Pusher.
Surge Guard 3450, TST 510, Sliverleaf VMSpc, RVND 7710. Blue Ox Tow. 2010 Arctic Cat 700 TRV.
Someday your life may flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.
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07-06-2013, 01:30 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Thor Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Hilley
Set the meter to the appropriate current range, clamp around one of the black wires in the transfer switch. Note the current reading. Turn on the Ac and read the meter again. The difference will be what the AC draws. Also watch while the AC starts, you will see a large current draw as it starts. Have someone else start the AC so you can read the meter.
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Thanks John.
__________________
Stewart & Kim. 2011 Serrano 31V, MaxForce 7 w/ Allison 6 Sp. Fiat 500 Sport Diesel Pusher.
Surge Guard 3450, TST 510, Sliverleaf VMSpc, RVND 7710. Blue Ox Tow. 2010 Arctic Cat 700 TRV.
Someday your life may flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.
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07-06-2013, 01:31 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Buxton, North Dakota
Posts: 3,940
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Just wire nut shore power to load center.
__________________
2003 Winnebago Adventurer 38G F53/ V10 605 watts of Solar
1999 Winnebago Brave 35C F53V10 Handicap Equipped
1999 Jeep Cherokee, 1991 Jeep Wrangler Renegade and 2018 Chevrolet Equinox Diesel
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07-06-2013, 01:36 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Thor Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 871
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Libero, please see the post I started last week called Electrical Problems (somewhat large) . I'm on my phone so I can't copy and paste the link, but you can search for it if you want the whole sorted tale.
Thanks for your input.
Stewart
__________________
Stewart & Kim. 2011 Serrano 31V, MaxForce 7 w/ Allison 6 Sp. Fiat 500 Sport Diesel Pusher.
Surge Guard 3450, TST 510, Sliverleaf VMSpc, RVND 7710. Blue Ox Tow. 2010 Arctic Cat 700 TRV.
Someday your life may flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.
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07-06-2013, 01:37 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,526
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That will work, and may be a quick fix. Important to disconnect the Genny circuit, however if you move the coach side wire to the pedistal line side and leave the Switch terminal to the coach empty, this will disable the genny line. But I encourge you to double check this before you plug the cord back into the pedistal. I modified my post to correct typos and put a bit more info on it just as that Info about ohms law etc just in case you might not be all that familiar with basic electrical laws.
Good Luck.
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07-06-2013, 01:39 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMDSailor
Libero, please see the post I started last week called Electrical Problems (somewhat large) . I'm on my phone so I can't copy and paste the link, but you can search for it if you want the whole sorted tale.
Thanks for your input.
Stewart
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will do, thanks.
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07-06-2013, 01:45 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Thor Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Hilley
Just wire nut shore power to load center.
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I think for a short term fix that's what I'm going to try.
__________________
Stewart & Kim. 2011 Serrano 31V, MaxForce 7 w/ Allison 6 Sp. Fiat 500 Sport Diesel Pusher.
Surge Guard 3450, TST 510, Sliverleaf VMSpc, RVND 7710. Blue Ox Tow. 2010 Arctic Cat 700 TRV.
Someday your life may flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.
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07-06-2013, 04:07 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Thor Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 871
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Ok pit crew, I've removed the shore connection and load centre wires from the Txfer Sw. Ive connected them through the Surge Guard. I've had the front cabin AC on max for about 15 mins now and there is NO HEAT from any of the wires. Now I know 15 mins isn't a long time but before they were hot in less than 5.
I think this defiantly proves that the Sw is the root of the problem.
Once again, thanks for all the help.
Stewart
__________________
Stewart & Kim. 2011 Serrano 31V, MaxForce 7 w/ Allison 6 Sp. Fiat 500 Sport Diesel Pusher.
Surge Guard 3450, TST 510, Sliverleaf VMSpc, RVND 7710. Blue Ox Tow. 2010 Arctic Cat 700 TRV.
Someday your life may flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.
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07-06-2013, 05:23 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Buxton, North Dakota
Posts: 3,940
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Did you measure the current in the two hot legs and the neutral?
__________________
2003 Winnebago Adventurer 38G F53/ V10 605 watts of Solar
1999 Winnebago Brave 35C F53V10 Handicap Equipped
1999 Jeep Cherokee, 1991 Jeep Wrangler Renegade and 2018 Chevrolet Equinox Diesel
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