Converter gone bad?

[Retired and Happy]

My coach batteries have gone DEAD even though the motorhome has been connected to shore power for several months. The coach batteries are new in June Energizer Golf Cart batteries. If I run the engine, I get alternator voltage at all batteries. When I kill the engine I get about 10 volts at the coach batteries, as if they took a little charge. I also get the same reading at the 12 volt output of the converter. If I remove the wire from the converter connector, I get the 10 volts on the wire, but only about 2 volts on the converter connector. It sounds to me as if the output of the converter is dead or dying. Agree?

To complicate things, my overhead lights work, but nothing around the stove/hood works unless the engine is running. My oversink light, hood light and fan, and generator start switch are all dead as is the panel that houses the water pump switch, the water heater switch and the tank indicator lights. I read this as part of the converter is working and the part including these items and the battery output are not. Agree?

I think I need a new converter. Any better ideas?

[hamguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retired and Happy My coach batteries have gone DEAD even though the motorhome has been connected to shore power for several months. The coach batteries are new in June Energizer Golf Cart batteries. If I run the engine, I get alternator voltage at all batteries. When I kill the engine I get about 10 volts at the coach batteries, as if they took a little charge. I also get the same reading at the 12 volt output of the converter. If I remove the wire from the converter connector, I get the 10 volts on the wire, but only about 2 volts on the converter connector. It sounds to me as if the output of the converter is dead or dying. Agree? To complicate things, my overhead lights work, but nothing around the stove/hood works unless the engine is running. My oversink light, hood light and fan, and generator start switch are all dead as is the panel that houses the water pump switch, the water heater switch and the tank indicator lights. I read this as part of the converter is working and the part including these items and the battery output are not. Agree? I think I need a new converter. Any better ideas?

Well, you need to check the water level in them.
Then, what kind of converter are you using?
A reading of 10V on the batteries means they are DEAD! They may come back but I doubt it.
The overhead lights working is confusing and I have no quick answer for that.

I suggest you invest in a PD-9260 converter. It is a 3-stage and will tenderly treat your new batteries without boiling the water out.

Let us know and good luck.

Dean

[Retired and Happy]

The water level is good. The converter is the original Paralax 30 A model (or Magnetek back then). I have several DC fuses for lights, but maybe the sink/stove stuff is fed from somewhere else. When I first checked the batteries they read 1 V. Dead!!!

[GaryKD]

Hi Ken,
Before making any purchases and if you are able, lets try to separate the batteries from the converter.
1. Disconnect the batteries from the coach.
2. Fully charge the coach batteries using a portable charger.
3. Take a VDC reading and let the batteries sit for a week (disconnected from the coach).
4. Take another VDC reading from the batteries. The reading should be the same as the first (or no less than .1 VDC less). If less, gut feel says the batteries are bad.
5. Take the batteries to your local auto parts store and have them do a load test on their machine.
The above mentioned process will tell you the condition of the batteries.

Now for the converter charger. To take a proper VDC reading, you'll need to have potential coming from the converter/charger through the meter to ground.
1.Turn the converter/charger on and connect one lead to the converter/charger output to the batteries (batteries are not connected).
2. Connect the other lead to a coach ground. You should read whatever the charge rating is for the charger. Probably 13.6 VDC.
3. If this checks out okay, do the same test using the wires that go to from the charger to the batteries.
4. If this checks out okay, the converter/charger should be okay.
5. If you loose VDC on step 3, check the wire connections to ground and to the charger/converter.

I know this sounds cumbersome, but it will provide the data for you to make a decision on what may or may not need to be purchased.

[a k]

They don't list your converter but this flow chart is typical troubleshooter


http://www.parallaxpower.com/7400/Flowchart7400.pdf

[Luv2go]

Quote:

I read this as part of the converter is working and the part including these items and the battery output are not. Agree?

Agreed. Your converter sounds like the old style that has an unfiltered output for lighting and a second output that connects to the battery and also connects to electronics (like indicator panel and generator start). It sounds like the second output is bad.

These converters have very wimpy charge capabilities on that second output (3 to 6 amps), even if you find it works I'd highly recommend replacing it with a 3 stage converter/charger as Dean suggested.

Have you had any luck with the excellent troubleshooting steps Gary and a.k. posted?

One step to add to Gary's list (it's in the flowchart a.k. linked to), insure (carefully) you have 120VAC power to the outlet/wire the converter is plugged or wired into.

Good Luck!
Stewart

[Retired and Happy]

I found the flowchart for the 6300 series on the Parallax site under "no longer manufactured". There was also an owners manual that describes how the thing is supposed to work. The flowchart says to check the converter output, shut off the breaker to the converter (labeled fridge on mine). Disconnect the battery wire (+) from the fuse block. Remove all fuses from DC dist. panel. Turn breaker back on and check voltage from blue (+) to white (-) converter wires. 12.3-13.3 vdc indicates good converter. I got 12.5 vdc. Ok so far.

Next to check the battery charger reconnect the battery (+) wire to the fuse block. Connect voltmeter across battery (+) and (-) and note voltage. Turn on the breaker and not any change in voltage, usually 0.5 v or more. A voltage increase indicates a good charger. I got no change. Charger is defective according to the flowchart.

I also noted the overhead lights were operating weakly, so they are likely operating off the batteries which are not fully charged. I plan to check tomorrow when it stops raining to see if the batteries will charge now that the engine has charged them up to around 10 volts.

I bought a load tester and hydrometer so I can play around with the batteries in the MH and my golf cart. We'll see what shows up.

Will post results.

[Luv2go]

I'm glad you found the charger problem.

Just in case you want to upgrade to a your 6300 series with a PD9260, here is a great howto article on the subject: http://home.comcast.net/~rabarber/magnetek.htm

Of course Parallax now sells an upgrade which is a direct fit: Converter Upgrade for RV from Magnetek

If you have way to charge your coach batteries, you should do so, the longer the batteries stay discharged the greater the chance of permanent damage.

Stewart

[Retired and Happy]

In replacing a converter if I don't plan on adding any new circuits, is there an advantage to going to a higher amp rated converter?

Is there more, or appreciable more, heat buildup in the higher rated converters?

Is the advantage of the PD 9200 series the built in Charge Wizard for 3 stage charging?

Is the Charge Wizard capability also the advantage over the Parallax 7300RU?

Will any of the PD 9200's fit into the empty cavity of a 6300?

I've read several installation guides/samples. It looks like the main physical difference in installing a PD instead of a 7300RU is in fastening the PD in the space. Wiring is the same for either?

[Luv2go]

Quote:

In replacing a converter if I don't plan on adding any new circuits, is there an advantage to going to a higher amp rated converter?

The only advantage may be quicker charging when your batteries are discharged. Any 3-stage charger will charge your batteries more quickly then your existing charger did.

Quote:

Is there more, or appreciable more, heat buildup in the higher rated converters?

Yes, but the switching technology used in the newer converters actually makes them more efficient than the one you are replacing, thus heat buildup will be less for the same rating converter.

Quote:

Is the advantage of the PD 9200 series the built in Charge Wizard for 3 stage charging?

Yes, 3 stage charging is much better for the batteries, gives you faster and more complete charges, and does not boil the batteries.

Quote:

Is the Charge Wizard capability also the advantage over the Parallax 7300RU?

Yes, Parallax does offer a "T" version with 2 stage charging capability, but IMHO 3-stage chargers are better (and they are cheaper than the Parallax, too).

Quote:

Will any of the PD 9200's fit into the empty cavity of a 6300?

I'd check the mfr website to make sure, a quick check shows they did not change the dimensions on the 9260 from the 9160 David Dressler used in his conversion, so at least that one would fit.

Quote:

I've read several installation guides/samples. It looks like the main physical difference in installing a PD instead of a 7300RU is in fastening the PD in the space. Wiring is the same for either?

Disclaimer: I'm an electrical engineer, so this stuff is in my blood. For good information on how to wire the converter, I'd refer to David's article. The existing AC wiring will be fine no matter what converter you choose. Just make sure it is not worn or brittle (not usually a problem with modern PVC wiring).

If you replace with the 45A version the DC wiring will be adequate as you are replacing your converter with one with the same current rating.

For 60A DC wiring, if I remember correctly from my 6345 converter, the red and white wires (feeding the battery and ground) are on the small side for 60A so I'd replace them with 8ga or parallel them with 10ga. The blue wire feeding your lighting circuits should be fine. Also I'd make sure the wiring from your converter to the batteries is adequate for 60A. 8 ga would be barely adequate for the 9260, 6 ga would be better IMHO. It looks like David's pictures show two 10 ga, that would be OK too.

Stewart

[Retired and Happy]

Stewart,

Thanks for the reply and the wire size considerations. I'm a retired electrical engineer, too (Auburn '64), so the wiring part doesn't bother me. I will check the dimensions to be sure the one I select fits. It looks like reusing the old housing is the way to go for relatively easy mounting. I'll probably make a selection today and get it ordered. We're leaving for Disney for three weeks on Dec 12th and I still have a LOT to do. My wife has had seven back surgeries since mid-August and we have three special needs wheelchair children (two teens and one wants to be), so the work never ends. I'm looking forward to relaxing at Ft Wilderness for a while.

[GaryKD]

Hi Ken,

You plan on relaxing at WDW with three kids! Living 170 miles from Mickey, I know better. Buy extra of whatever you take for a boost in energy. You'll need it.

[Retired and Happy]

I just flip the rear seat down on the golf car, put the car seats on the rear, and we tour the campgrounds. The kids love it and I don't have to fight the crowds in the parks. And DW just had 7 back surgeries since mid Auigust, so she will want to go slow.

I found a PD 9245 on eBay last evening and ordered it for $127. It should be in on Dec 3rd. I decided on replacing 45 A with 45 A so as not to have to change any wiring sizes. And i get the advantage of the 3-stage charger w/ pendant. We'll see how it does next week.

I also found a site where someone describes reworking his 6300 converter. Seems the power resistor always goes bad and prevents the charger circuit from working. But if that's not my problem, and it's 13-14 years old...so a new one goes in.

Now I'm off to have two new MH front tires installed and the front end aligned. Never a moment's rest around here. Company arriving tomorrow for the weekend. or

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

[Luv2go]

Thanks for the kind words, Ken. We are blessed with two special needs children and we have found WDW to be very accommodating. The holidays are a great time to be at Ft Wilderness, we were there last year, it is an experience we won't forget soon! We are planning to go to FL over the holidays again this year (a non-optional vacation from work), but we will probably visit WDW after Jan 1, when the crowds thin out.

Good luck, and Happy Holidays!
Stewart