Does anyone know about this thing?

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by clyon51

A tank of organics is just that, no matter what you call it. Rid-X does help in an RV since the tank is generally 65 to 90 degrees. A septic tank operates about 55 degrees. This added temperature makes the bacteria more active, eating and multiplying more.

Granted if you are in a CG using lots of water method and dumping every other day, it's useless.

I used Rid-X when boondocking and after 5-7 days conserving water, when I dumped there were little solids and no smell. The product I use now mentioned in my previous post, contains much more concentrated bacteria and enzymes. It just works better and faster.

I will certainly admit any full tank without any additives and enough water will eventually break down all solids. There will ways be enough naturally present bacteria. As you bring up though, enough time is needed.

Our previous RV club owned 10 acres on a river. We had to install a sand filter sewer system. Since I was president of the club I had a lot of time into the construction and operation (being a retired transportation enginner entered into it to) of the system.
One of the things we asked the licensed sanatation engineer we hired to approve the plans and the construction was about the use of formaldahyde in the system as well as Rid-X. He said the formaldahyde would not hurt the digestion process and Rid-X would help once it was in the tanks. As far as I know the system is still doing fine.

[4Knights]

Originally Posted by cfyanes

I use orange Tang in my toilet and sink, works great and smells good too

Just hope no astronauts find out, they may need some for the next mission and mistakenly remove it from the tank

[wa8yxm]

Originally Posted by Mr_D

The problem with Rid-X is that it's made for septic tanks and we don't have them in RV's. We have holding tanks and the tanks are dumped too often for the bacteria in Rid-X to work. I'm sure it's beneficial once you dump though.

Two comments on that.

1: I seem to recall that Rid-X is now selling an RV tank treatment, basically it is concentrated Rid-X.

2: It depends on how much you use, If you dump in the recommended amount for a couple of hundred gallon septic tank, into a 30 gallon Black tank, IT will work. Epically under the "parked for an extended period with little use" type.

I used to park mine long about halloween, then it might well be Independence day before I hit the road with it again. Over winter no toilet u se so noting in tank but some pink stuff.. Come spring I'd use the toilet in the RV on occasion (I used the RV every day, it's my "Shack" for my radios) and I had a home dump station) but since it was just me and just an hour or 3 a day.... Took months before I had to dump, so I used waste digester products.

[clyon51]

Originally Posted by Mr_D

One of the things we asked the licensed sanatation engineer we hired to approve the plans and the construction was about the use of formaldahyde in the system as well as Rid-X. He said the formaldahyde would not hurt the digestion process and Rid-X would help once it was in the tanks. As far as I know the system is still doing fine.

To me this doesn't make any sence. Formaldahyde is used to preserve dead amimals in a containment system indefinitly. It does this by killing any bacteria on the animal and killing any that may enter the vessel. This of course eliminates any decompostion.

The only way I see any use of formaldahyde in a septic system, would be in the drain field after it left the tank. This would kill bacteria leeching into the ground. That doesn't make much sence to me either since you can drink sewage water thats filtered through 20ft of sand. In Mich, you can put your water well within 50ft of your septic tank. Perhaps some special ordinance because you were close to a river, but I live on a lake and have no such restriction or use of formalahyde. After 20ft of sand filtration, bacteria exists no futher and our annual lake test shows no signs of bateria.

The biggest problem is chemicals such as phosphates from laundry and nitrates from fertilizers. These do not break down as formaldahyde doesn't either. So I hope I made my confusion on this clear.

[RickyBobby]

This stuff I'm ordering dosen't have any formaldahyde in it. I, personally, don't know why it would have it but, I've seen a good number of chemical treatments contain that stuff. This has actually been what tipped the scales towards ordering the stuff. Check the ingredidents if you want, www.bluestreakchem.com . I don't think I missed anything. Afterall, if it is safe to be in the bowl as well as the holding tank; that has to be a good start.

[Francesca]

Unless very greatly diluted, formaldehyde is bad for biological treatment systems of all kinds.

See: http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/water/az1233.pdf
And:
http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/PublicationsF...-Consumers.pdf

[RickyBobby]

I could certainly see/expect that formaldehyde would be determental not just to a septic system but more so for local watersheds. That's what is appealing about this thing. It adds chemical which is dosed by consumption and does not contain formaldehyde. So it seems to be less chemicals put into the sewage and a safer chemical compound. It just makes sense to me.

[menoble]

A septic tank works by settling out the 'solids' which sink to the bottom, where anerobic (no oxygen) bacteria digests the organic matter over a very long period of time, creating Hydrogen Sulfide gas (rotten egg smell) in the process. So in an RV tank, anerobic digestion is not a preferable situation. Thus the reasoning for formaldehyde 'preservatives' to stop bacterial growth.
However, in a wastewater treatment plant, aerobic bacteria is used to break down the organics and the formaldehydes are toxic, and utilities get real cranky when somebody kills their 'bugs'. Thus the most practical treatment for an RV holding tank is a product that keeps the solids in suspension, breaks down oils (detergents), breaks surface tension (surfactants), and smells nice too.

[tinkerreknit]

Originally Posted by menoble

A septic tank works by settling out the 'solids' which sink to the bottom, where anerobic (no oxygen) bacteria digests the organic matter over a very long period of time, creating Hydrogen Sulfide gas (rotten egg smell) in the process. So in an RV tank, anerobic digestion is not a preferable situation. Thus the reasoning for formaldehyde 'preservatives' to stop bacterial growth.
However, in a wastewater treatment plant, aerobic bacteria is used to break down the organics and the formaldehydes are toxic, and utilities get real cranky when somebody kills their 'bugs'. Thus the most practical treatment for an RV holding tank is a product that keeps the solids in suspension, breaks down oils (detergents), breaks surface tension (surfactants), and smells nice too.

There is a lot of good information in these posts. menoble's post seems to put things in proper perspective. The RV holding tank isn't supposed to work like an anaerobic system such as a house might have. Seems to me that the best way to control odor associated with RV tanks is simply to use enough water. However, I am usually limited to maybe 4-night trips every several weeks and I might not have the same problems other RVers have.

[menoble]

Originally Posted by tinkerreknit

There is a lot of good information in these posts. menoble's post seems to put things in proper perspective. The RV holding tank isn't supposed to work like an anaerobic system such as a house might have. Seems to me that the best way to control odor associated with RV tanks is simply to use enough water. However, I am usually limited to maybe 4-night trips every several weeks and I might not have the same problems other RVers have.

The simplest solutions are often the best, flush vigorously and often. You're correct, a long term dry camper's problems are exponentially greater than the 99% of us that can dump and flush the tanks every week or so. And their contributions to the conversation certainly are interesting.

[clyon51]

Menoble, I will have to respectfully disagree based on my 40 years dealing with septic and RV holding tanks.

When a septic tank is working properly, it produces no smell and this is how I check my tank periodically. With the proper strain of bacteria, it will digest FOG and all complex organic material into water and CO2, a non odor gas. When an improper strain takes over a tank, that's when the smell begins. This happens to folks who do not periodically add "good" bacteria to keep the bad strains in check.

To add "chemicals" to an RV holding tank is completely beyond my comprehension for several reasons. To suspend solids is just asking for a clog. Seems a no brainer to only have water come out when dumping. The use of chemicals to just mask odors (which most don't work anyway or you keep adding way beyond what mfg call for) doesn't make any sence when you don't need to use chemicals and keep them out of our ground water.

There can be a big difference staying at a CG vs boondocking. In a FHU CG you have unlimited water and dumping. Many people here use no additives because it isn't even necessary.

It's a whole lot different in the middle of nowhere when you are conserving all the water you can. That's where you want all those solids turned into water and non smelling CO2 without using any more water than rinsing the toilet.

I look at it this way. When in a CG you can choose to have a holding tank or a septic tank. When boondocking, if you choose holding tank, you're going to be pulling up stakes often looking for water and dump stations.

I don't know if I have already said it in this thread or another, but it's worth saying again. Everyone out there is trying to make a buck. Many of them prey on fears, mis-information and inexperience to peddle their wares. The RV accessory industry is no different.

So, can't sleep at night knowing all those killer bacteria are in your tank.So you must fill it with chemicals to kill them. Then you better take a bath in it and drink a quart because at any time of the day you have litterally billions of them on you and in you.

Then these life killing chemicals go into the ground water which feeds the CGs water system. Do these chemicals eventually make it back to your RV, I don't know and neither do you.

People can choose to educate themselves or believe what they hear from peddlers or even people like me. I have always chosen education or personal hands on experimentation.

[RickyBobby]

There is some validity to that and this may be a case of "to each their own," But:

If you are using a non-formaldehyde base than I don't see where that would solidify the mass to cause a clog.

How is excessive water consumption a better solution for any local water shed than a non-formaldehyde detergent type treatment? It seems that this logic is perhaps nearsighted in its own way. As an outsdoors enthuisist and advid fishing family I have seen modifications over the past 30yrs due to industrial pollution, pesticides, vehicle emissions and so on... also I have seen the decrease in available water as well with diminishing lake levels and water tables.
Anyhow, my point is this: I use shampoo, soap, deodorant, laundry soap, dish soap and so on. You probably do as well. It is fair to say that we both have rationalized the use of these daily products. We both consume some degree of water and probably consideer our own respective amounts of consumption to be fair and reasonable... My two cents worth... I would rather use a detergent based treatment which is not viewed as a hazardous ground water containament w/ significantly less water use as opposed to consuming far more ground water (which is not magically appearing at the faucet.) In my eyes it seems rational.

[Perry White]

When a septic tank is working properly, it produces no smell and this is how I check my tank periodically. With the proper strain of bacteria, it will digest FOG and all complex organic material into water and CO2, a non odor gas. When an improper strain takes over a tank, that's when the smell begins. This happens to folks who do not periodically add "good" bacteria to keep the bad strains in check.

Is it STRAIN or did you mean when your really STRAINING? What produces the smell?

[Francesca]

Originally Posted by Perry White

Is it STRAIN or did you mean when your really STRAINING? What produces the smell?

Clyon refers to "strain"(s) of bacteria, and I think that part of his post refers to the bacteria in the living septic tank where the contents of the RV holding tank may end up.

I used to work for the Dept of Environmental Health here, and I too have some experience with septic systems. While I don't exactly agree with his assertion that a properly functioning tank has no smell, it's definitely my experience that such a tank's odor is relatively benign- certainly nothing like the smell of "raw" sewage.