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10-21-2018, 06:12 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 93
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Elec brakes - are they acting correctly?
Hi folks,
Bought a 2014 Toyhauler tandem axel 2 months ago, still learning all the in’s and out’s. I’m wondering if my camper brakes are doing all they should to help with braking.
I wonder this because even with my truck brake controller set to Gain 10 (max) I feel like the stopping power is a little weak. In the past when pulling any trailer with elec brakes be it a car trailer or even a camper, I would usually set the controller to 6.5 or 7, but in this case I set to 10 and it still feels weak.
By feeling weak, I mean that when the Gain is 10 and I’m at a stop, if I pinch and hold the brake controller, I can still pull the trailer and the wheels aren’t locking up. Also, with past trailers and campers, at a slow speed, a pinch on the controller would lock the camper wheels. Not here though....
Another example... even when going slow (20mph or so) if I pinch the controller, I can feel the camper brakes engage and it gives me some drag but nothing very dramatic.
- Maybe this is how a heavy 5th wheel under braking acts?
- Maybe if I mash the brake in the truck I would get the reaction I’m expecting?
Naturally, more confidence on the road is good so determining if my brakes are operating at full potential is important.
Couple of data points:
- The pads on the drums look pretty good, I visually inspected.
- I tested the output on the elec brake signal and I’m getting a full 12v or higher when controller is pinched so I’m getting full signal.
- I’ve adjusted the camper brakes till I hear a slight drag on the drums when free wheeling.
- Truck is a 2014 F350 1ton dually.
Thanks for any advice given.
Hd.
__________________
2022 Heartland Milestone 370FLMB 44'
2016 Keystone Outback 210URS 26'
2014 F350 Dually / B&W Companion Hitch
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10-21-2018, 06:36 PM
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#2
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 93
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Found this post from EGWILLY and makes sense. Maybe they’re working and I just haven’t had the need to mash the peddle.
EGWILLY “Please keep this information in mind......the Ford system is proportional.....
An electric trailer brake controller is a device that installs in the cab of your tow vehicle and activates your trailer's electric or electric-over-hydraulic brakes when you hit the brakes in your tow vehicle. Many models are available, and they differ from how they look to the number of brakes they can power. But all of them can be divided into 2 main groups: proportional or time delayed. This includes factory installed tow systems.
A proportional brake controller senses how the tow vehicle is slowing or stopping and applies the trailer's brakes with the same intensity. So if you slam on the brakes in your tow vehicle, the controller will activate your trailer's brakes just as forcefully. With a proportional controller, you can adjust the initial braking power and aggressiveness based on your trailer's weight and your braking preferences.
With a proportional brake controller, you can get heavy-duty emergency braking, general braking, or slow-to-an-idle braking for your trailer automatically. The intensity with which your trailer brakes are activated and the rate at which they are applied are dependent on the deceleration of your tow vehicle. This means that, unlike time-delay controllers - which send the same amount of preset power to your trailer brakes every time - proportional controllers are able to adapt to every braking situation differently. So if you slam on the brakes in your truck, your trailer brakes will activate with the same extreme intensity. And if you merely slow down as you approach a red light, your trailer will gradually brake in the same manner.
Using a light braking, you are not going to feel much tug, but hammer the pedal, and your brakes will snap to attention!
Activation during flat towing of the switch only won't lock the brakes, and is not a great test. The fact the poster stated his trailer wouldn't move after activating the e-brake tells me his system is working as designed.
Adjust your brakes shoes 3-4 clicks off contact. Go have fun.
__________________
2022 Heartland Milestone 370FLMB 44'
2016 Keystone Outback 210URS 26'
2014 F350 Dually / B&W Companion Hitch
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10-21-2018, 10:54 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 26,692
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12 Volts just means brake controller output is working
Need to measure each wheel position amp draw when magnet is energized
Couple bad connections, couple bad magnets etc and brakes will NOT function even with FULL battery voltage
Should be 3A minimum at each wheel
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I took my Medication today. HAVE YOU?
Dodge 3500 w/Tractor Motor
US NAVY---USS Decatur DDG-31
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10-22-2018, 09:59 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Nowhere, now here. Freedom!
Posts: 4,602
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Pull the emergency brake cable out, and tug on it. Brakes should be locked up. Then quickly replace the emergency brake cable pin, as it will draw down your trailer batteries pretty quickly. That's what I did. Trailer wouldn't budge. I didn't want to drag the tires. I like the proportional braking system, It's very smooth.
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ORV 19B Full Timer from '15 to '20, '14 Ram 2500 Diesel and a GSD. Vancouver, WA
de K7NOL 146.52Mhz Safety? (CLICK ME!)
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10-22-2018, 10:10 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Olympia, Wa
Posts: 2,772
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HAVE you pulled the drums and see if grease might be affecting the brakes? Or see if the shoes are glazed?
LEN
__________________
2004 Clss C 31' Winnebgo
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10-23-2018, 07:37 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: DFW
Posts: 578
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my Freedom Express 24RKS has wires to all 4 wheels and all 4 have drum like housing. is it possible that my trailer would have electric brakes on all 4 wheels ?
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10-23-2018, 08:14 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Nowhere, now here. Freedom!
Posts: 4,602
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Yes.
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ORV 19B Full Timer from '15 to '20, '14 Ram 2500 Diesel and a GSD. Vancouver, WA
de K7NOL 146.52Mhz Safety? (CLICK ME!)
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10-23-2018, 09:29 AM
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#8
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit
12 Volts just means brake controller output is working
Need to measure each wheel position amp draw when magnet is energized
Couple bad connections, couple bad magnets etc and brakes will NOT function even with FULL battery voltage
Should be 3A minimum at each wheel
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Thanks, I’ll have to take an amp measurement at each wheel this weekend.
__________________
2022 Heartland Milestone 370FLMB 44'
2016 Keystone Outback 210URS 26'
2014 F350 Dually / B&W Companion Hitch
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10-23-2018, 09:31 AM
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#9
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bigmess
Pull the emergency brake cable out, and tug on it. Brakes should be locked up. Then quickly replace the emergency brake cable pin, as it will draw down your trailer batteries pretty quickly. That's what I did. Trailer wouldn't budge. I didn't want to drag the tires. I like the proportional braking system, It's very smooth.
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This week the camper is at an RV repair shop getting some other minor work done and when I asked them to check the brakes they Pulled the pin as you described. They said they pulled the pin in it locked the wheels up just fine. They asked me if I thought the problem could have been at my truck.
__________________
2022 Heartland Milestone 370FLMB 44'
2016 Keystone Outback 210URS 26'
2014 F350 Dually / B&W Companion Hitch
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10-23-2018, 09:33 AM
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#10
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLYLEN
HAVE you pulled the drums and see if grease might be affecting the brakes? Or see if the shoes are glazed?
LEN
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I think I will do that when I get the camper back from the shop. I did repack the bearings a few weeks ago but this problem or perceived problem was happening before I did the brake bearings as well as afterwards. When I was in there the brakes look good and I did not see a big greasy mess so I assumed all was OK. The shoes even had a good bit of pad on them. I’m beginning to wonder if the proportional braking system on the Ford is just something that I’m not used to.
__________________
2022 Heartland Milestone 370FLMB 44'
2016 Keystone Outback 210URS 26'
2014 F350 Dually / B&W Companion Hitch
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10-23-2018, 09:53 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 3,722
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As long as the brakes are adjusted correctly, you have voltage to the individual magnets, they will work. If you don't have grease on the linings or drum or magnet surface, they will work - but wont stop you. With a Ford Super Duty truck, your braking 'feel' is minimal as their integrated brake controller is a 'proportional' control in that as you apply more brake pedal pressure, you will apply more voltage to the individual magnets and increase the braking power of the trailer brakes. You will feel minimal braking from the trailer up to about 20 or so mph. It's there, but you just don't feel like it's working.
If you manually pull the lever on the dash, you will apply full power and lock up the wheels. If you pull the emergency pin, again full power and locked brakes.
No matter what you feel is poor braking, they are probably working as designed.
Now, with all that said, a disc barke mod is the best way to go with that heavy trailer. Even though the OEM magnet brakes are mostly standard on towed RVs, they are really pretty bad vs what the $1500 buck disc mod can do. I found very quickly that they were an accident preventer on an emergency stop where a semi rear ended another on PAs I-81 and the big 5er in front of me went into the guard rail but I was able to easily stop (within 5 feet of the crashed trucks)
__________________
Dave W
2011 Ford F250 6.7 Lariat CCLB, Gone but not forgotten
2014 Montana High Country 343RL (sold it!)
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10-24-2018, 08:29 AM
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#12
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC2
If you manually pull the lever on the dash, you will apply full power and lock up the wheels. If you pull the emergency pin, again full power and locked brakes.
No matter what you feel is poor braking, they are probably working as designed.
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Thx IC2. Pulling the manual lever on the dash is what got me curious about this whole thing. I was always under the impression that pinching that lever was like you said, putting all 12 V to the wheels and therefore I thought it should simulate a lock up or emergency braking situation. But in my case when I pinch I feel a good tug back there but nothing too dramatic. It may just be my ignorance on how electric brakes work with heavy trailers but all the other electric brake trailers that I’ve hauled in the past including campers did in fact lock up when I pinched those levers. Now I do understand that we don’t want to go around locking those wheels up, but it sure does build your confidence that you can and they are working so I’ve had a habit of checking the brakes back they’re in this manner one new trailers. This rig does not lock when pinched and that is what raised my concern. It’s quite possible that because of the weight of this particular Camper it’s simply will not lock up. I’m just not sure.
__________________
2022 Heartland Milestone 370FLMB 44'
2016 Keystone Outback 210URS 26'
2014 F350 Dually / B&W Companion Hitch
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10-24-2018, 09:43 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 3,722
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Your Fuzion has the same 12x2 brakes as our Montana High Country (and the long gone '1970s 30 foot Kountry Aire 5er or the '06 35' Titanium) and probably weighs a bunch more then ours at 12,000 pounds. Our Montana would just barely lock up the wheels and why I went with the disc brakemod. It did stop before but took a lot longer distance at the same speeds then now. This is a saftey concern and one that RV builders will have to consider some day. If I activate the dash lever with the discs, I'll leave a long pair of black marks on the road along with a cloud of blue smoke. Then have ro rearrange the furniture which is now crammed towards the front of the 5er. Instead of a 9.5/10 setting, now at 6/6.5.
One more check you can make - are the brake linings (shoes) assembled correctly with the short, primary shoe on the leading, forward side. Dexter has had a habit of assembling them wrong and braking ability suffers. These are a 'Bendix' design and are for all intent, full floating vs the 'Lockheed' design which are anchored at one end.
__________________
Dave W
2011 Ford F250 6.7 Lariat CCLB, Gone but not forgotten
2014 Montana High Country 343RL (sold it!)
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10-25-2018, 05:52 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Citrus Springs, Fl.
Posts: 798
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Let's make this simple. Get a hand held magnetic compass, even a cheep one. Have someone step on your trucks brake. Hold the compass close to each wheel. It the individual brake magnets are working, the compass needle will swing toward the wheel.
When I had my 5th wheel, braking seamed to be getting weaker and I started to run my controller from +6 to +9. The compass trick pointed to one faulty magnet. I replaced it and fixed the problem.
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2017 Thor Freedom Elite 29fe
2015 Jeep Wrangler Toad
Making a smooth transition to senility for over 70 years
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