Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > RV SYSTEMS AND TECHNOLOGIES FORUMS > RV Systems & Appliances
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-30-2013, 03:06 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
IMDSailor's Avatar
 
Thor Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 871
Electrical Problems (Somewhat large)

Trying to understand the wiring to my Transfer Switch (Progressive Dynamics PD52, 50 AMP).
We are at a 30 Amp site. Yesterday I smelled burning wires. I found the Black, White, and Red wires, which come from the Shore connection, burning hot.
Here's where my stupidity comes in, I was running one AC unit and a toaster oven, as well the water heater was on electric, not sure if that was on at the time or not. In any event far to much draw for a 30 Amp circuit. My bad I know that. Once I saw what was going on I disconnected from shore power.
After thinking about it for a while it dawned on me that the site breaker should have popped long before my wires came into distress. After talking to the site manager he checked the post, it was fine, he said. He also told me that he had seen post go up in smoke and still not trip the breaker. I'm not a electrician but that just doesn't sound right unless perhaps the fire was caused by something other than electrical.
On trying to check other things out I found that the 6AWG wire from the shore plug fitting went into a 4x4 junction box, with no wire clamps, and connected to a 8AWG cable that went to the Txfer Switch, for no apparent reason. I can only think that the pervious owner had a surge protector in where the join is now and rather than run the 6 AWG back to the Txfer Sw he instead chose to join them. I have since removed that section of wire and run the 6AWG to the Sw. Problem is is that the wire, while running the AC still gets hot. It gets warm if you boil a kettle.
So my questions are;
1. Because the wire is still getting hot does the Txfer switch need to be replaced. When plugging the shore cable back into the post I hear the Sw making.
2. Is 6AWG heavy enough to carry a 50Amp load? My 50Amp shore cable is 8AWG so to my mind it should be 8 AWG straight to the Txfer Sw. No? My 30 AMP cable is 10.
3. Could the park power be frigged up. The place is packed this weekend. Not that I've had occasion to check these wires before but this hasn't happened before, I have been to other 30Amp campgrounds.
I've been plugged back in for about 1hour now and the wires, going into the Txfer Sw are warmish, or at least warmer than the rest of the wires coming out of the Txfer Sw box, they are not warm at all. None of the other wires or connections from the post into the coach are warm, they feel as you would expect them too. I addition the breaker for this site still hasn't popped. I'll be unplugging over night for sure. Also I've had no unusual temps when on the Genny.
Your thoughts please.
Thanks as always,
Stewart
__________________
Stewart & Kim. 2011 Serrano 31V, MaxForce 7 w/ Allison 6 Sp. Fiat 500 Sport Diesel Pusher.
Surge Guard 3450, TST 510, Sliverleaf VMSpc, RVND 7710. Blue Ox Tow. 2010 Arctic Cat 700 TRV.
Someday your life may flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.
IMDSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-30-2013, 03:13 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,654
Hot wire indicates overload.

Check voltage at each end, looking for excessive drop or difference.

Could be a low source voltage caused by crowded place, low voltage causes increased amp draw.

Clamp amp meter can verify loads.
__________________
Tony & Lori
1989 Country Coach Savannah SE
TQ60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 03:38 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
IMDSailor's Avatar
 
Thor Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by TQ60 View Post
Hot wire indicates overload.

Check voltage at each end, looking for excessive drop or difference.

Could be a low source voltage caused by crowded place, low voltage causes increased amp draw.

Clamp amp meter can verify loads.
Thanks, my knowledge of things electrical is a mile wide but only an inch deep.

I'm thinking its the Txfer Sw that's causing the overload condition. In that when I had all the stuff I mentioned in my OP I must have damaged it, now causing increased resistance, therefore causing the over heating.

While I'm leaning towards the Txfer Sw being the problem, I still think this may have been precipitated by the park breaker. Why would it not have popped when over loaded? I've popped breakers in other parks when being a dumba$$.

I don't have a clamp Amp meter but you can be sure ill be adding one to my kit.
__________________
Stewart & Kim. 2011 Serrano 31V, MaxForce 7 w/ Allison 6 Sp. Fiat 500 Sport Diesel Pusher.
Surge Guard 3450, TST 510, Sliverleaf VMSpc, RVND 7710. Blue Ox Tow. 2010 Arctic Cat 700 TRV.
Someday your life may flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.
IMDSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 04:50 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
BFlinn181's Avatar
 
Gulf Streamers Club
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 19,925
The transfer switch is just a switch, with time delay start, I don't think it's your problem. On 30 amp service, you only get 120 v from one leg of the 50 amp service in your RV. If your shore cord is 6AWG, then it should be that all the way to the transfer switch. The pedestal circuit breaker should trip it you are trying to pull more than 30 amps. The hot wires could be from low voltage, (causing higher amps) common in campgrounds when everyone is using air conditioning. Can you measure voltage with a multimeter? That will tell the tale. Other problem might be burnt or loose connections at your shore cord plug or in junction box or transfer switch.
__________________

Bob & Donna
'98 Gulf Stream Sun Voyager DP being pushed by a '00 Beetle TDI
BFlinn181 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 04:51 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
CampDaven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Fulltime, USA
Posts: 16,706
Blog Entries: 1
Stewart,

I would still suspect the shore hookup. I have a PI PT50-C that has sensed low V, and one time a pedestal neutral that was going bad. Both times it shut down power to the rig.

Just for the heck, try another pedestal?

Also, one time while on 30A, the 30A plug in adapter got hot. Replaced it, was okay then.

Other than that, you may be on the right track. Prev owner may have taken his PI unit with him and cheaped on the jumper wires.

Dave
__________________
Dave and Nola, RVM1
The Journey is Our Destination!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
https://davenola.blogspot.com/
CampDaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 05:06 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Sammie's Avatar
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,808
IMDSailor, Where are you camping? Whats the outside temperature? If it's hot and everybody in the campground is running their air conditioning, I can almost guaranty that there is a low voltage condition at the park connection. Been there,. Done that.

Just my HO
Sammie
__________________
2015 Tiffin Bus 37AP
2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee
"A Job Begun is Half Done"
Sammie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 06:17 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
IMDSailor's Avatar
 
Thor Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by CampDaven View Post
Stewart,

I would still suspect the shore hookup. I have a PI PT50-C that has sensed low V, and one time a pedestal neutral that was going bad. Both times it shut down power to the rig.

Just for the heck, try another pedestal?

Also, one time while on 30A, the 30A plug in adapter got hot. Replaced it, was okay then.

Other than that, you may be on the right track. Prev owner may have taken his PI unit with him and cheaped on the jumper wires.

Dave
Thanks guys. All the parts from the post to the coach are fairly new, <3 yrs old and in good condition.
I have a surge protector wired in AFTER the Txfer Sw. I did that in order to protect the coach from both Shore and Generator power. I did that knowing I would be sacrificing the Txfer Sw if a serious problem occurred. Seemed like a good idea at the time. I have a 50Amp TRC SurgeGuard protector, it didn't do what I was expecting it to do if indeed it is a low voltage problem. It could still be a low voltage problem just not low enough to kick out the SG, but low enough to cause a problem even with the AC on, and that doesn't make sense even to me.
I'm going to rethink the position of the SG. Putting after the Sw made sense at the time but I'm thinking that the odds of a bad park connection are far greater than the Genny running amuck, therefore no real need to protect both sides.

I appreciate the feed back,
Stewart
__________________
Stewart & Kim. 2011 Serrano 31V, MaxForce 7 w/ Allison 6 Sp. Fiat 500 Sport Diesel Pusher.
Surge Guard 3450, TST 510, Sliverleaf VMSpc, RVND 7710. Blue Ox Tow. 2010 Arctic Cat 700 TRV.
Someday your life may flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.
IMDSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 06:21 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
IMDSailor's Avatar
 
Thor Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammie View Post
IMDSailor, Where are you camping? Whats the outside temperature? If it's hot and everybody in the campground is running their air conditioning, I can almost guaranty that there is a low voltage condition at the park connection. Been there,. Done that.

Just my HO
Sammie
Thanks Sammie, I'm at a park in Nova Scotia, Canada. Been raining like a son of a gun, but not hot. I only ran the AC to try and dry the air in the coach a bit. Nobody else running AC that I can tell.

Stewart
__________________
Stewart & Kim. 2011 Serrano 31V, MaxForce 7 w/ Allison 6 Sp. Fiat 500 Sport Diesel Pusher.
Surge Guard 3450, TST 510, Sliverleaf VMSpc, RVND 7710. Blue Ox Tow. 2010 Arctic Cat 700 TRV.
Someday your life may flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.
IMDSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 06:25 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Sammie's Avatar
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,808
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMDSailor View Post
Thanks Sammie, I'm at a park in Nova Scotia, Canada. Been raining like a son of a gun, but not hot. I only ran the AC to try and dry the air in the coach a bit. Nobody else running AC that I can tell.

Stewart
Hmmmm. Oh well, scratch that idea. Still I would suspect low shore voltage.

Sammie
__________________
2015 Tiffin Bus 37AP
2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee
"A Job Begun is Half Done"
Sammie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 06:30 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
IMDSailor's Avatar
 
Thor Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammie View Post

Hmmmm. Oh well, scratch that idea. Still I would suspect low shore voltage.

Sammie
Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at now. I'm hoping an electrician will stop by tomorrow. He may be able to she'd more light (as it were) on the situation.
__________________
Stewart & Kim. 2011 Serrano 31V, MaxForce 7 w/ Allison 6 Sp. Fiat 500 Sport Diesel Pusher.
Surge Guard 3450, TST 510, Sliverleaf VMSpc, RVND 7710. Blue Ox Tow. 2010 Arctic Cat 700 TRV.
Someday your life may flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.
IMDSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 06:39 PM   #11
Registered User
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Varies Depending on The Weather
Posts: 8,517
50 amp rigs should have 6 gauge wire for the shore cord and for all cables going to the transfer switch.

30 amp rigs can use 8 gauge wire for the shore cord and all cables going to the transfer switch.

As stated previously, usually hot wires or hot cord connectors means low voltage or overloading or high resistance.

Your wires should be 6 gauge and should handle 30 amp service easily without any over heating. If you are drawing TOO many amps for the 30 amp service, then your dog-bone connector should be getting hot or the service box outlet and CB but not your 50 amp shore cord or wires in your transfer switch.

Something is not Kosher in Denmark!

Dr4Film ----- Richard
Dr4Film is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 06:42 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Auburn, CA, Havasu, AZ & Mulege, BCS
Posts: 5,385
Low shore volts in crowded camps is very likely in old parks, sometimes even in new ones.
Before spending money on a new xfer switch check the contacts to see if they are pitted or look burnt. Also check out the terminations for the cords coming in & going out. It is common for mfgr's to order cords w/the wires splayed & ends stripped, but the strip length may have been too short and the mfgr used them as is anyway; that causes insulation to get trapped in the connection making the torque seem good when you are really grabbing a fat piece of insulation & some copper (high resistance, causes heat, melts insulation & loosens connection causing higher resistance & more heat).

Another problem that causes resistance & heat is poorly fitting plug ends in receptacles. Could be bad fit of either, tho the receptacles in old parks (and in the dog-bone 30/50A splice cord) can frequently get hot when the spring clips in the receptacle don't hold the spades of the cord tightly enough. Inspect the cord ends & receptacles for indications of heat.
__________________
Baja-tested '08 2-slide 36'
Alpine: The Ultimate DIY'er Project
EngineerMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 07:12 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
IMDSailor's Avatar
 
Thor Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 871
Thanks guys, the only point of warmth is where the wires go into the Txfer Sw. None of the other connections or points of contact are warm or even close to it.
I've been plugged back into the post for about 3hrs now and the only source of warmth, yesterday with the AC on it was smoking hot, remains where the wires enter the Sw.
So I'm thinking two things right now, low park power, but not low enough to trip the SG, that still doesn't make sense to me, and/or the Txfer Sw is causing resistance and causing the heating condition, which was exasperated when I overloaded the circuit, but then why didn't the park breaker pop or the SG trio.
A conundrum indeed, well at least to me.

Thanks again,
Stewart
__________________
Stewart & Kim. 2011 Serrano 31V, MaxForce 7 w/ Allison 6 Sp. Fiat 500 Sport Diesel Pusher.
Surge Guard 3450, TST 510, Sliverleaf VMSpc, RVND 7710. Blue Ox Tow. 2010 Arctic Cat 700 TRV.
Someday your life may flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.
IMDSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 07:22 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
CampDaven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Fulltime, USA
Posts: 16,706
Blog Entries: 1
I have seen breakers fry before they trip Stewart. Might be as rare as frog hair, but....
__________________
Dave and Nola, RVM1
The Journey is Our Destination!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
https://davenola.blogspot.com/
CampDaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.