Generator cycling on and off (sporadic electricity) or maybe a ATS question?

[jumper bob]

Hi all,

First post (of course it is a --help me-- post LOL)

Also our first RV too! A highly exciting thing to have.2000 Holiday Rambler Admiral. We are the second owners. Bought it last May in south Florida. Coach only had 15,000 miles on it last year, so in reasonably good shape and was owned by a retired couple who took good care of it and good maintenance.

We are leaving in 8 days to drive up to Alaska for the summer, so need to get this problem resolved.

Current problem:
Generator is running but not producing electricity. Upon startup, gen will make AC for about 2 mins; then continue to run but no electric. After initial on/off, about every couple minutes (3 or 4, i guess) it will bog down a bit as if a big load is present, and after about 3-4 seconds will stop bogging down and rev up again. Whole cycle then repeats.

Last week, had it on and it made elec for about 30 mins, but then same cycle.

Genset is a Generac Q-55, with 512 hours on it. Had 403 hours when we bought coach last year. Worked fine for three months on road, both park-ing and a bit of boondocking. Then we lived in it for about a month parked outside a friends house, using genset about every couple days to charge batts. Put it away last fall; have started it sporadically over fall/winter. For a few months I started generator and coach for about two hours; ran all systems, heat, air conditioning, refer, etc, but then went to work up in Alaska for about three months so it's not been started. In January, *was* having some battery problems (i.e. they were dead and wouldnt seem to take/keep a charge) but then again its cold up here in Colorado at 7,000 feet in January.

Thought it might be the battery charger causing the electric cycling, as batteries were only semi-decent to begin with and perhaps the charger was trying to draw too much power to bulk-charge. Unplugged the charger from the AC outlet in the electric compartment, no change in problem. Genset Still cycles for 3-4 secs then no electric. (Even when it is running and I can hear it cycling for that 3-second period, there is no electricity in the coach.)

Parked it outside the house and plugged into a 20A outlet. Auto Transfer Switch ( a Todd Engineering PS-250 ) made the customary *clunk* but then was making a humming sound - the same sound a drill makes when the bit is stuck and it cant spin but you still push the trigger.

Pulled shore power out, plugged in a plug tester to my extension cord coming from house; it tells me "Hot and Neutral reversed".

Plug into different plug at house, tester tells me wiring is good now.

Opened up ATS cover to watch/listen/smell. All set-screws are tight; no burnt smell.

Plug back in shore power - a "clunk", saw the shore-power-relay click inward for a half second, and then breaker trips at other end (the porch receptacle I plugged extension cord into).

My thought is that the ATS is probably bad, or one or both of the relays are stuck? so maybe a stuck relay would draw too much current from the genny and the genny's onboard breakers would trip?

Is there any way to test this?

Alternatively, how do I test the genny itself? Can I simply unplug the generator input side from the ATS, turn on genny, and use multimeter to see if voltage is present? Also, I could open up the junction box in the genset compartment (very first junction from genset) and test for voltage in there.

Assuming that test is a yes, could I then bypass the ATS, wire-nut the genset output to coach input in electric compartment, thereby removing the ATS from the equation? (Only for testing purposes - I have no intention of running that way.)

And what about the breakers on the genset? A 20A and a 30A. Could those be bad from age / overuse / whatever? I know that happens on the boat I fish on; I assume the same applies to the RV.

I am guessing that the Hot/Neutral problem I just ran into today is not a great thing; but this generation problem predates that. (To clarify, the H/N problem was in the extension cord from the house, not my RV wiring - but I dont know if coach wiring is sensitive enough to be damaged by that)

Anyone know of where to get the RV-type switch-looking circuit breakers that reside on the genset itself? Are there any chain stores that carry those or am I looking at a specific RV supply store?

Ok I will quit rambling, thanks in advance for any input, suggestions, or letting me know what retarded things I have done and how to fix them heheh.

Thanks, Scott

["007"]

Seeing that it set a while during winter months would check your ground connections, battery feeds and #6 copper wires to chargers, ATS, BATTERIES,to frame of chassis. If you find loose dirty connections clean and use star washers to hold tight to frame and insulate with battery spray after cleaning.
You could clean off back side of control panel for Gen with electrical cleaning spray.
The ATS relay contacts maybe pitted and draw a dollar bill through them to clean out dirt and maybe iron filings.
When working inside ATS be careful and do not cross anything with control board use wood stick to operate contact closures on relays. Also power is off from all feeds please.
You could have a problem with fuel filter to Gen. If your pump keeps priming, you will hear it, could be problem.

Welcome Scott to irv2, by the way.

[jumper bob]

hi 007,

thanks for the reply.

i will check those in the morning when i go back out to the RV and will keep you posted as to results.

- scott

[RV Wizard]

Hello Scott and welcome to iRV2.com. We are glad to have you join us here and we look forward to reading of your adventures and experiences. I am sure you will enjoy the website and forums. Good luck and stay safe.
First off, if the generator circuit breakers are not tripping they are not bad.
I doubt the problem is the transfer switch; but I have learned that "nothing is impossible". I think the problem is the output of the generator itself and should be diagnosed. To do this, take a picture of the internal wiring of the transfer switch so you can refer to it if you forget how it is supposed to be wired.
With all power off, remove the wiring from the generator at the transfer switch. Separate the conductors were you can safely measure voltage from generator. Start generator and measure for voltage on the hot conductors (black and red, if you have a 10/3 NMC cable) to neutral. If voltage continues to hold the generator now needs to be loaded down. To do this turn the generator off. Now, remove the conductors feeding the distribution panel (load) from the ATS. Connect L1 of the generator to L1 load conductor. Connect L2 of generator to L2 load conductor. Connect neutrals and equipment ground in like manner. The shore power cable will be left connected to ATS. Make sure all loads are off before restarting generator. Start the generator and let it warm up for a few minutes and turn on some loads inside the motorhome. Does the generator fail to produce power? If so, the generator is the problem. If not, the problem could be the ATS. If the generator does not continue to produce voltage, the problem could be the brushes in the generator or the voltage regulator. Get a qualified Generac technician to diagnose and repair.
The wiring in the coach should not have been damaged from the reversed polarity of the one receptacle you plugged into. The receptacle that tripped the breaker in the house should be a GFCI and is very sensitive to current leakage to ground. This could mean that you may have a bad refrigerator or water heater element even though they do work when plugged into a 30, 50 amp shore power or when the generator was working properly.
Good luck and let us know what you find.

[jumper bob]

hi wizard and 007;

thanks for all the input. i went back out to the RV this morning, tightened and cleaned up a couple of connections that werent up to par (all in the 12V system however).

checked the onboard batt charger and it puts out 13.6V; looked at the ATS relays, and they are easily movable in and out with a wood stick, and dont seem to hang up at all. that seemed to eliminate all of those possibilities, so finally mustered up some nerve and started disconnecting 120V wiring and checking for voltage, at the ATS, coming from the generator.

turned the genset on, let warm up for a couple of minutes, hit the breakers, and Surprise Surprise, both of my hots (black and red) were showing 6.3V AC (tested each separately, between the hot and the neutral) but the REAL BIG surprise, to me anyways, came while I was holding the test leads to the wires, and the genset did its 3-second-cycle-business, the voltage shot all the way up to 160 volts!

heheh so that pretty much seals the deal for me, sounds like a voltage regulator or something that is beyond my pay grade, so its gonna be some phone calls in the AM (we have a Good Sam extended service plan, so am hoping that was not a complete waste of money and they might actually cover it) and probably a run in to a repair shop.

now lets just hope they can get it properly diagnosed and get some parts in, in time for me to make it up to Alaska and start work.

thanks much for the suggestions and directions, it is very nice to hear other's opinions.

regards, Scott

[RV Wizard]

Glad you found the problem and hope the shop has the part in stock for you. Keep us posted.

[RVhauler]

Check armature brushes for wear/residue build up