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Old 11-18-2019, 05:16 AM   #1
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GFI Problems. a good read

Lot's of GFI problems and it's just gonna get worst if they require ALL RV services to be GFI protected. Read this.

https://www.rvtravel.com/30-and-50-a...n-campgrounds/
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:34 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavie View Post
Lot's of GFI problems and it's just gonna get worst if they require ALL RV services to be GFI protected. Read this.

https://www.rvtravel.com/30-and-50-a...n-campgrounds/
From the article
Quote:
And they’ll do the same thing that musicians have been doing for decades … breaking off the ground pin of their shore power cord. Now, if they’re still plugged into a GFCI-protected 30- or 50-amp pedestal outlet they should be safe from electric shock. But the next time they plug into a 30- or 50-amp pedestal WITHOUT a GFCI, then they’re putting themselves at risk for electric shock and possible death by electrocution.
Could you expound on the highlighted?

I thought the GFCI worked by measuring the leaked voltage to the grounding pin.

Could one just make up an adapter without the ground pin if this becomes a problem?
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:42 AM   #3
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RRR; RVTravel is a bunch of blogs, you know the usual outcome.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:53 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by RRR View Post
From the article
Could you expound on the highlighted?

I thought the GFCI worked by measuring the leaked voltage to the grounding pin.

Could one just make up an adapter without the ground pin if this becomes a problem?
NOPE. The actuating energy for standard breakers and fuses far exceeds the lethal amount, but most GFCIs trip at around 5 mA. A GFCI uses a current transformer to detect the difference between the line current supplied to the load and the neutral current returning from the load.

Voltage in Voltage out. That's why they work on a two wire system. If you plug that two wire adapter onto a 2 or 3 wire non GFI circuit you have NO ground protection. NOT good.
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Old 11-18-2019, 03:35 PM   #5
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NOPE. The actuating energy for standard breakers and fuses far exceeds the lethal amount, but most GFCIs trip at around 5 mA. A GFCI uses a current transformer to detect the difference between the line current supplied to the load and the neutral current returning from the load.
Thanks, got it. Had my ground and neutral confused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavie View Post
Voltage in Voltage out. That's why they work on a two wire system. If you plug that two wire adapter onto a 2 or 3 wire non GFI circuit you have NO ground protection. NOT good.
Yeah, I got this. I was trying to say make an adapter IF you run into problems with a 50 amp GFCI. NOT to use it under normal usage.
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Old 11-18-2019, 05:41 PM   #6
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Thanks, got it. Had my ground and neutral confused.
Yeah, I got this. I was trying to say make an adapter IF you run into problems with a 50 amp GFCI. NOT to use it under normal usage.
As cavie stated, the GFCI only measures the hot(s) and neutral wires. Removing the ground has NO effect on the operation of the GFCI and so making an adapter only puts you into a possible dangerous situation - DON'T DO IT!


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Old 11-18-2019, 10:16 PM   #7
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As Mike Sokel states, having a GFCI designed to trip with 5 mA leakage current feeding an electrical sub-panel in a RV with multiple branch circuits is not technically compatible with the current UL and NEC codes for allowable leakage to ground current on individual branch circuits of 5 mA for each branch circuit.

I think he's right that RVers will quickly figure out how to "fix" the pedestal trips by blocking the leakage current path back to the pedestal outlet ground. The easy but dangerous way to do this will be to open the shore cable grounding path all together by cutting off the ground pin on the shore cable or by making a male/female "bootleg ground" dongle. This will lead to more "hot skin" issues on RVs and people will get injured or killed.

If the feeder (pedestal) breaker GFCI requirement gets added to the NEC then the right way to address existing RVs that trip the feeder breaker will be to identify all the items that are generating leakage currents and eliminate or reduce the leakage on enough to get the total leakage below 5 mA. For new RVs the manufacturers will have to drive suppliers of subsystems to have near zero leakage current no matter how much the NEC allows.
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