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11-18-2019, 04:16 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 3,165
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GFI Problems. a good read
Lot's of GFI problems and it's just gonna get worst if they require ALL RV services to be GFI protected. Read this.
https://www.rvtravel.com/30-and-50-a...n-campgrounds/
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2011 Keystone Sprinter 323 BHS. Port Charlotte Fl/Hinsdale MA. Retired Master Electrician. All Motor homes are RV's. All RV's are not Motor homes.
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11-18-2019, 09:34 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavie
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From the article
Quote:
And they’ll do the same thing that musicians have been doing for decades … breaking off the ground pin of their shore power cord. Now, if they’re still plugged into a GFCI-protected 30- or 50-amp pedestal outlet they should be safe from electric shock. But the next time they plug into a 30- or 50-amp pedestal WITHOUT a GFCI, then they’re putting themselves at risk for electric shock and possible death by electrocution.
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Could you expound on the highlighted?
I thought the GFCI worked by measuring the leaked voltage to the grounding pin.
Could one just make up an adapter without the ground pin if this becomes a problem?
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2016 Bounder 34T Anniversary Edition
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11-18-2019, 09:42 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North America somewhere
Posts: 30,982
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RRR; RVTravel is a bunch of blogs, you know the usual outcome.
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2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD , ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG 11B5MX,Infantry retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA. " My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy
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11-18-2019, 10:53 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 3,165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRR
From the article
Could you expound on the highlighted?
I thought the GFCI worked by measuring the leaked voltage to the grounding pin.
Could one just make up an adapter without the ground pin if this becomes a problem?
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NOPE. The actuating energy for standard breakers and fuses far exceeds the lethal amount, but most GFCIs trip at around 5 mA. A GFCI uses a current transformer to detect the difference between the line current supplied to the load and the neutral current returning from the load.
Voltage in Voltage out. That's why they work on a two wire system. If you plug that two wire adapter onto a 2 or 3 wire non GFI circuit you have NO ground protection. NOT good.
__________________
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323 BHS. Port Charlotte Fl/Hinsdale MA. Retired Master Electrician. All Motor homes are RV's. All RV's are not Motor homes.
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11-18-2019, 02:35 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavie
NOPE. The actuating energy for standard breakers and fuses far exceeds the lethal amount, but most GFCIs trip at around 5 mA. A GFCI uses a current transformer to detect the difference between the line current supplied to the load and the neutral current returning from the load.
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Thanks, got it. Had my ground and neutral confused.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavie
Voltage in Voltage out. That's why they work on a two wire system. If you plug that two wire adapter onto a 2 or 3 wire non GFI circuit you have NO ground protection. NOT good.
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Yeah, I got this. I was trying to say make an adapter IF you run into problems with a 50 amp GFCI. NOT to use it under normal usage.
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2016 Bounder 34T Anniversary Edition
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11-18-2019, 04:41 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRR
Thanks, got it. Had my ground and neutral confused.
Yeah, I got this. I was trying to say make an adapter IF you run into problems with a 50 amp GFCI. NOT to use it under normal usage.
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As cavie stated, the GFCI only measures the hot(s) and neutral wires. Removing the ground has NO effect on the operation of the GFCI and so making an adapter only puts you into a possible dangerous situation - DON'T DO IT!
Stay cool
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11-18-2019, 09:16 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Solo Rvers Club
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,834
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As Mike Sokel states, having a GFCI designed to trip with 5 mA leakage current feeding an electrical sub-panel in a RV with multiple branch circuits is not technically compatible with the current UL and NEC codes for allowable leakage to ground current on individual branch circuits of 5 mA for each branch circuit.
I think he's right that RVers will quickly figure out how to "fix" the pedestal trips by blocking the leakage current path back to the pedestal outlet ground. The easy but dangerous way to do this will be to open the shore cable grounding path all together by cutting off the ground pin on the shore cable or by making a male/female "bootleg ground" dongle. This will lead to more "hot skin" issues on RVs and people will get injured or killed.
If the feeder (pedestal) breaker GFCI requirement gets added to the NEC then the right way to address existing RVs that trip the feeder breaker will be to identify all the items that are generating leakage currents and eliminate or reduce the leakage on enough to get the total leakage below 5 mA. For new RVs the manufacturers will have to drive suppliers of subsystems to have near zero leakage current no matter how much the NEC allows.
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