Inverter/converter tripping GFI

[jwcgc629]

Update....

Wired 12g extension cord to the main breaker panel....Couple of observations.

If the main shorepower cord is connected to my 30a outlet, the GFI trips the moment
I try to connect the neutral of the "extension cord" to the neutral buss. I can wire directly to the inverter from the panel with no problem....I can connect the ground (green) of the extension cord to the ground buss and the hot and neutral to the inverter wiring and it functions.

If I disconnect shore power, I can then connect the neutral of the "extension cord" to the panel buss, green to the ground bus and the hot directly. Yet when I try to connect the neutral of the inverter to the neutral buss in the panel, GFI trips....

Im going to need therapy if I dont figure this out soon....Still open for suggestions...Voltages everywhere look fine.

Thanks

[wmcclain]

I have a similar problem. I have a Xantrex Freedom inverter. Things seem to work fine on shore power or on the genset, but when I disconnect, one of the GFCI circuits trip. The other side works fine. I'm usually connected to shore power so its not a big issue, but I will drydock once or twice a month and its really a pain. Have you had any success troubleshooting the problem?

P.S. As a note, the problem seemed to occur after we had discovered a rat in the MH. He was there a few days and chewed up the central vac hose. Could he have possibly chewed a wire?

[TQ60]

Inverters are switch mode devices and as such have high leakage currents.

Be certian it has large and clean grounds.

Grounded to ac load center safety ground buss.

[sholom770]

Similar issue here. Dedicated gfci 30amp circuit at house. All worked fine until new inverter install. Then gfci trip every time. RV guy called xantrex and was told that gfci cannot be used with inverter. Meaning an upstream gfci cannot be used. I called and was told the same by xantrex customer service.
Something about a floating ground in the inverter.
Does this sound plausible to the experts in the forum? thanks!
~sholom

[palehorse89]

Originally Posted by sholom770

Similar issue here. Dedicated gfci 30amp circuit at house. All worked fine until new inverter install. Then gfci trip every time. RV guy called xantrex and was told that gfci cannot be used with inverter. Meaning an upstream gfci cannot be used. I called and was told the same by xantrex customer service.
Something about a floating ground in the inverter.
Does this sound plausible to the experts in the forum? thanks!
~sholom

In most, the neutral and the ground are tied together........un- like a house.
Inverters/charger's will make a GFCI trip wire like this............un-balance sensed.......

[gtsum2]

Same issue with my fifth wheel. Trips gfi every time. Fine anytime else. Was told it won't work with gfi

[campgroundguy]

30 or 50 amp GFIs are trickier than 20 amp, because they must monitor current flowing through L1, L2, and neutral. Highly reactive loads such as those found in most modern converters often cause them to trip. If you are in a bind for power, try adapting down and connect to a 20 amp outlet, and it will usually work, even if the 20 amp outlet has a GFCI.

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by campgroundguy

30 or 50 amp GFIs are trickier than 20 amp, because they must monitor current flowing through L1, L2, and neutral. Highly reactive loads such as those found in most modern converters often cause them to trip. If you are in a bind for power, try adapting down and connect to a 20 amp outlet, and it will usually work, even if the 20 amp outlet has a GFCI.

30 amp service is L1 only. Same as 15 or 20 amp service, just more amps.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by sholom770

Similar issue here. Dedicated gfci 30amp circuit at house. All worked fine until new inverter install. Then gfci trip every time. RV guy called xantrex and was told that gfci cannot be used with inverter. Meaning an upstream gfci cannot be used. I called and was told the same by xantrex customer service.
Something about a floating ground in the inverter.
Does this sound plausible to the experts in the forum? thanks!
~sholom

Yes, It is proven by myself and others that sometimes GFI's in series do not play nice. I believe it has to do with the quality of the GFI's. Your RV has GFI circuits.

There is nothing in the NEC that says your 30 amp outlet must be GFI protected. Remove the GFI at the shore power and your problem will go away.

[RVingNow]

All these difficulties with gfi have me a bit concerned. I'm having a 50A outlet installed by my driveway and I'm sure the electrician will want to install a gfi breaker. I'm not looking forward to that discussion to convince him it's a feeder circuit and not a branch circuit and hence gfi is not required.

I've been reading about ground/neutral bonding on RVs and have no idea how mine is setup. Some posters have indicated that they always trip a gfi shore power connection and so I've started to look at my equipment.

Much to my surprise, my Freedom 458 dynamically manages bonding. While inverting or off, ground and neutral are bonded. When connected to shore power, the bonding is lifted. This is the last thing I expected and should work perfectly.

We'll see.

[RVingNow]

So two quick comments regarding this bonding / gfi issue. 1. In none of the discussions I've been reading has anyone mentioned that the bonding is / might be dynamic based on the inverter mode and 2. The dynamic nature introduces another failure point which could unexpectedly go bad. Like after a few days boondocking. It worked when I left, but now...

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by RVingNow

All these difficulties with gfi have me a bit concerned. I'm having a 50A outlet installed by my driveway and I'm sure the electrician will want to install a gfi breaker. I'm not looking forward to that discussion to convince him it's a feeder circuit and not a branch circuit and hence gfi is not required.

I've been reading about ground/neutral bonding on RVs and have no idea how mine is setup. Some posters have indicated that they always trip a gfi shore power connection and so I've started to look at my equipment.

Much to my surprise, my Freedom 458 dynamically manages bonding. While inverting or off, ground and neutral are bonded. When connected to shore power, the bonding is lifted. This is the last thing I expected and should work perfectly.

We'll see.

The trick is to have the bonding relay open before the GFCI trips.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by RVingNow

All these difficulties with gfi have me a bit concerned. I'm having a 50A outlet installed by my driveway and I'm sure the electrician will want to install a gfi breaker. I'm not looking forward to that discussion to convince him it's a feeder circuit and not a branch circuit and hence gfi is not required.

I've been reading about ground/neutral bonding on RVs and have no idea how mine is setup. Some posters have indicated that they always trip a gfi shore power connection and so I've started to look at my equipment.

Much to my surprise, my Freedom 458 dynamically manages bonding. While inverting or off, ground and neutral are bonded. When connected to shore power, the bonding is lifted. This is the last thing I expected and should work perfectly.

We'll see.

If the electrician is a real electrician he will not want to install a GFI because it is not required. Feeders and branch circuits have nothing to do with it. The only GFI 240 volt circuits per the NEC at home is on a pool pump/spas. If you have a boat dock on the other hand 240 volt motors are GFI required. A 240 circuit for you motor home is NOT required to be GFI protected.

120 volt 30 amp receptacles are not require to be GFI protected. Only 15 and 20 amp outlets within 6' of a water supply and circuits in the garage area.

All RV's are wired with neutrals and grounds separate. RV's are a sub panels and are required to be separate. All rv's are "set up" as you call it the same.

RV's do not ALWAYS trip the GFI's. Some do some do not. It seams to be a crap shoot with no definitive answer that I have found. It it happens there are two fixes. either plug into a non-GIF circuit or turn off the GFI circuits in the RV.

Inverters do not change neutral and ground bonding.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by wa8yxm

A couple of issues with Inverters....

First: I have seen the connections in the terminal box on the inverter get a bit overheated.. A couple of times.

And many inverters have a "Bonding screw".. Now ideally when they are "Pass through" mode, all wires simply pass through, Other than tapping off a bit of power for battery charging and "operations" nothing happens.

but with the bonding screw in place. when it switches to INVERTER mode neutral and ground are bonded.

However, if someone messed in that box... They may have bonded neutral to ground "Full time' I did (And later fixed it)

There are other things that can cause it too.

This is the first I have heard of this. Please explain how this works. It is not NEC code compliant.