Inverter troubles

[boneyard51]

I got a 1994 Monaco Windsor. It has had the inverter replaced with a 2000 watt unit by the previous owner. It has two 30 amp breakers on it. A while back I lost 1/2 my circuits while plugged into a 50 amp shore line. After a lot of searching I found one of the inverter circuit breakers tripped. I reset and had everything working again. If I trip both breakers, while plugged in, the coach is completely dead. I always turn off the inverter while plugged in. Is this right? Seems wrong to me. Any help will be appreciated. Bones

[TonyDi]

I always keep my inverter turned on, except when I put it in storage for the winter.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f106/shou...me-194758.html

[MSHappyCampers]

Hi ! Welcome to IRV2! We're sure glad you joined the gang!

It sounds like all 120VAC circuits are being powered from the inverter, even though you are connected to shore power. I don't know it that would be normal for your rig or not

Good luck, happy trails, and God bless!

[RVinsurance]

Originally Posted by boneyard51

I got a 1994 Monaco Windsor. It has had the inverter replaced with a 2000 watt unit by the previous owner. It has two 30 amp breakers on it. A while back I lost 1/2 my circuits while plugged into a 50 amp shore line. After a lot of searching I found one of the inverter circuit breakers tripped. I reset and had everything working again. If I trip both breakers, while plugged in, the coach is completely dead. I always turn off the inverter while plugged in. Is this right? Seems wrong to me. Any help will be appreciated. Bones

Not sure what you mean by 'completely dead'... can you expand?

the Magnum ME2000 series of inverters can come with either two internal circuit breakers on the inverter itself, or a single circuit breaker, depending on the model. These breakers are part of the inverter and protect it from overload/output. If you have two, then it stands to reason that you have two 'circuits' of outlets that they power, i.e, one circuit for 12 outlets, and the other for the other 12 outlets, etc.
If one circuit breaker trips, you would lose '1/2' of your outlets.

Now, if you are referring to 'tripping' both of these inverter circuit breakers, then YES, you will lose 'all' outlets in your coach... but NOT your 12v lights, fans, etc.
You also would NOT lose your Air Conditioners or Water Heater(elec), etc., since they are powered ONLY by the generator or shore power.

Does this sound like what you are experiencing?

As for leaving on the Inverter, many of us do. Why? Because, it's your 'back up' power if you lose Shore or Generator power. It doesn't hurt anything to leave it on.
The inverter, when not in 'use', is simply passing thru Shore or Generator power to your Inverter Circuits(outlets) while you are plugged in or running the gen. But, it is also the fail-safe for when you un-plug, or turn off the generator.
Many items, like the microwave, satellite receivers, and computers may not like it when they 'lose' power, since they have to reset or repower up. It's best to let the inverter keep them all running and available, without missing a beat!

[docj]

First of all, don't turn your inverter off when you are plugged in! It almost assuredly has an internal transfer switch that bypasses the inverter when it senses it is connected to AC power. You're doing nothing by turning it off.

Secondly, have you considered that 2000 watts at 120V is <17 amps. There's no reason for the output side of your inverter to have a pair of 30A breakers. Normally the input side of an inverter of that size will have a 30A breaker. The output side should have a pair of 15A breakers or at most a 15A and a 20A. Almost certainly the wiring in your coach on the output side is 12 gauge or 14 gauge. Under no circumstances should wires of those size be fused with 30A breakers. The good news is that the breaker ahead of the inverter will limit overall current to ~30A but that means that one leg of the output could pull a full 30A before anything trips. That's a potential fire hazard!

FWIW it sounds as if my MH is wired much the same as yours. Some manufacturers were building coaches where the primary lighting sources inside the coach were 120V served by the inverter. We have standard household lighting fixtures with very few 12V lights. All our outlets are fed from the inverter. If the inverter breakers are tripped we would be dark inside as you describe.

[vsheetz]

Inverter pass through for inverted circuits when shore or genny power is available. When shore or genny are not available the bypass drops out and the inverted circuits are powered via the inverter.

Just leave the inverter on - it will sense and disable itself appropriately if shore/genny power is available.

[boneyard51]

Originally Posted by RVinsurance

Not sure what you mean by 'completely dead'... can you expand?

the Magnum ME2000 series of inverters can come with either two internal circuit breakers on the inverter itself, or a single circuit breaker, depending on the model. These breakers are part of the inverter and protect it from overload/output. If you have two, then it stands to reason that you have two 'circuits' of outlets that they power, i.e, one circuit for 12 outlets, and the other for the other 12 outlets, etc.
If one circuit breaker trips, you would lose '1/2' of your outlets.

Now, if you are referring to 'tripping' both of these inverter circuit breakers, then YES, you will lose 'all' outlets in your coach... but NOT your 12v lights, fans, etc.
You also would NOT lose your Air Conditioners or Water Heater(elec), etc., since they are powered ONLY by the generator or shore power.

Does this sound like what you are experiencing?

As for leaving on the Inverter, many of us do. Why? Because, it's your 'back up' power if you lose Shore or Generator power. It doesn't hurt anything to leave it on.
The inverter, when not in 'use', is simply passing thru Shore or Generator power to your Inverter Circuits(outlets) while you are plugged in or running the gen. But, it is also the fail-safe for when you un-plug, or turn off the generator.
Many items, like the microwave, satellite receivers, and computers may not like it when they 'lose' power, since they have to reset or repower up. It's best to let the inverter keep them all running and available, without missing a beat!

Ok, what I mean by completely dead, is all the 120 plug ins won’t work. Ac still works, 12 volt lights work. Sorry about that. I guess I wasn’t clear. It just seem wrong to me that the two inverter circuit breakers can shut the system down. Why have the distrubtion box with ten circuit breaker. Seem redundant too me.

[powerboatr]

ok new wrench
two days agao we had a huge surge or power from dancing squirrels on the power line
all coach power tripped out then reset.
the inverter of course picked up load on coffee pot which was in use at time.


then it tripped off when power was restored and i received the AC BACKFEED

on the magnum remote panel.
so we shut down all power, unplugged shore power cord, disconnected ALL 12v and did a hard reset of the inverter/charger


turned everything on and SMOKE out of the led light over the sink, this outlet is on a gfci outlet that is powered by the inverter if power fails.
so we did another hard reset.
and everything was ok, inverter was still in the OFF mode. called magnum tech line on thursday and we walked through everything to make sure all was good.
then today BAM we had another major power flicker from a storm.
i assume inverter picked up because the micro stayed lit and no screen shut off.
then we had one more and the outlets running off the inverter picked up and micro shut off, as did the other items around it, they are on separate breaker
so once power came back on from the delay timer on the surge gaurd, i had higher than normal amperage on one leg, 117 volts 41 amps. so i turned off stuff until amps dropped to 1 .

then turned stuff back on and amps stabilized to normal.
so then i start one by one turning off breakers and checking outlets and as i turned off the 30 amp inverter outlet, and then turned it back to on, i got a clicking noise from the surge guard.
then it stopped.
so i then flipped sub panel one off and it killed the micro and outlets in kitchen.
i then turned it back on and SMOKE holy crap the convection oven smoked and made a locked motor noise, as in the sound when two wires both are hot or out of phase.
so now we have inverter OFF, battery charger on. micro is toasted and i call the warranty folks in the morning.
so what the heck is going on? i get no faults on the remote panel for the inverter, but it really acts like its sticking or something to apply power to both legs of the power cord to the micro.
i am leaning towards replacing inverter as well,

i went out ad shined a bright light in the ventilation holes and could not see any burns or melted insulation, and no burning smells.....
HELP

[powerboatr]

shut down all power this morning and started inspecting wires
found the neutral wire to be ...well burnt the fluck up, this is on the wire that leaves the surge guard and goes to the main breakers in the bus.
so we definitely had flipping power going back out or at least doing its darndest to wreak havoc.


did a cold reboot of the whole bus and have pretty equal power inputs of 119 to 118 volts both lines pulling 12 to 13 amps
both a/c are on

[boneyard51]

Originally Posted by powerboatr

shut down all power this morning and started inspecting wires
found the neutral wire to be ...well burnt the fluck up, this is on the wire that leaves the surge guard and goes to the main breakers in the bus.
so we definitely had flipping power going back out or at least doing its darndest to wreak havoc.


did a cold reboot of the whole bus and have pretty equal power inputs of 119 to 118 volts both lines pulling 12 to 13 amps
both a/c are on

Powerboats, I think your posting on the wrong thread. Bones

[boneyard51]

Originally Posted by docj

First of all, don't turn your inverter off when you are plugged in! It almost assuredly has an internal transfer switch that bypasses the inverter when it senses it is connected to AC power. You're doing nothing by turning it off.

Secondly, have you considered that 2000 watts at 120V is <17 amps. There's no reason for the output side of your inverter to have a pair of 30A breakers. Normally the input side of an inverter of that size will have a 30A breaker. The output side should have a pair of 15A breakers or at most a 15A and a 20A. Almost certainly the wiring in your coach on the output side is 12 gauge or 14 gauge. Under no circumstances should wires of those size be fused with 30A breakers. The good news is that the breaker ahead of the inverter will limit overall current to ~30A but that means that one leg of the output could pull a full 30A before anything trips. That's a potential fire hazard!



FWIW it sounds as if my MH is wired much the same as yours. Some manufacturers were building coaches where the primary lighting sources inside the coach were 120V served by the inverter. We have standard household lighting fixtures with very few 12V lights. All our outlets are fed from the inverter. If the inverter breakers are tripped we would be dark inside as you describe.

Well, went back out to check things, my inverter has two 20 amp circuit breakers, not two 30 amp as I previously stated. My lighting is mostly, if not all 12 volt.

Went I trip the breakers on the inverter, all plug ins go dead. When they are set, I can go to the main disturbution box and trip each circuit and kill various plug ins. Being familiar with electricity, but not a guru on AC current, I though multiple circuit breakers on the same line was a no-no? Just trying to understand the wiring and be sure it’s right as the inverter was replaced by the previous owner and increased in size.

Bones/ Steve

[docj]

Originally Posted by boneyard51

Went I trip the breakers on the inverter, all plug ins go dead. When they are set, I can go to the main disturbution box and trip each circuit and kill various plug ins. Being familiar with electricity, but not a guru on AC current, I though multiple circuit breakers on the same line was a no-no? Just trying to understand the wiring and be sure it’s right as the inverter was replaced by the previous owner and increased in size.

On my coach, the outlets that are "fed" by the inverter are protected by the two 20A breakers after the inverter. The inverter itself is protected by a 30A breaker in the main distribution box. If I trip that 30A breaker, the outlets stay on as long as the batteries are charged and the inverter is turned on.

The appliances and outlets that have their own breakers are not fed by the inverter. In no case are there two breakers controlling the same outlets. That's the way it should be.

[boneyard51]

Originally Posted by docj

On my coach, the outlets that are "fed" by the inverter are protected by the two 20A breakers after the inverter. The inverter itself is protected by a 30A breaker in the main distribution box. If I trip that 30A breaker, the outlets stay on as long as the batteries are charged and the inverter is turned on.

The appliances and outlets that have their own breakers are not fed by the inverter. In no case are there two breakers controlling the same outlets. That's the way it should be.

Well, that how I thought it should be wired, BUT, I trip my two 20 amp breakers on the inverter, ALL my plug ins go dead. AC still works, Micro wave/ water heater still works. If I leave the inverter circuit breakers on, I can shut down various plug ins at the distrubtion/ breaker box in the rear of the coach while plug into shore line. The way I see it I have two circuit breakers on one circuit.

Bones

[netjam]

Bones....mine is exactly like yours. A/C, hot water, and dryer work on shore/ gen power, everything else thru inverter. Have 2 20 amp breakers on inverter which feeds breaker panel for most of the rv. Have a 2000 watt inverter....plug in 2 1500 watt devices (micro and hair dryer) and inverter breakers blow leaving rv without power even when plugged in.