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Old 03-26-2017, 06:45 PM   #1
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Maiden Voyage - Tank Flush not Plumbed Right ???

2017 Thor ACE 30.3

So we made the maiden voyage to a KOA in Daytona for the Turkey Run at the Speedway.

Get ready to leave this morning. Finally, get to dump the tanks for the first time! Yeah I know, but we're newbies and everything is exciting now.

I have read the manual and watched the RV Geeks videos on flushing the tanks, I'm ready! Dump the black, all is good. Break out the green hose I bought so as not to confuse with the white (potable) hose and hook up to the tank rinse or San T Flush or whatever Thor calls it. Ease the water on and close the black valve to add some water back to the black tank to get a really good flush again. Turn the water full on, wait a minute and I have water running down from somewhere up above the wet bay door! OH Crap!!! Not literally, just clear water. Instantly I open the black valve because I think the tank can't be full but do it NOW anyway. Look to the stinky slinky and nothing coming out, not a drop. Turn off the water and run inside and sure enough, water in the floor near the shower wet wall, just a puddle, but still . Open the bathroom door and water in the floor there too, but later I guessed that it ran there from the shower wall area. Shower is on passenger side, toilet on the driver side. Mop that all up with towels and there is a little more there in a few minutes, with water off.

We had both taken showers twice before this, so all was good with the fresh water supply. No leaks.

Ok, so regroup and try again. Like all I have looked at, there is the disclaimer on the tank rinser hookup that says the black valve must be open whenever a hose is hooked to this....OK I broke that rule, but the RV Geeks close theirs. The tank is vented, so as long as you don't overfill it and blow sewage out of the roof vent we are good right? At least it verifies that water from here should go the the black tank. But wait, no water comes out of the previously dumped black tank even if the black valve was open while the rinse is on. Hmmm.

The manual is kinda generic, so I open the black and the grey just in case. Nice big whoosh of grey water down the hose, and let it clear. Try the tank rinse again, and still no water out of the sewer hose clear elbow, even with the black and grey open. I notice when you turn the water on to the tank rinse, that the garden hose seems to swell with the pressure like the water isn't going anywhere, at least not fast like you would expect. (40 psi BTW, I checked)

Not wanting to get any more water in the coach, I turned on the water in the kitchen sink and in the bathroom sink and held down the toilet foot pedal until both the black and grey tanks had at least 2/3 on the panel. Then I dumped the black again, glad I did, it needed it. Then I dumped the grey and packed up.

Confused. Even with the black valve open, the tank rinse doesn't go to the tank. ????
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Old 03-26-2017, 06:57 PM   #2
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How high is the water pressure? My black flush doesn't work when the water pressure is too high. I finally put a restrictor in the black flush hose.
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Old 03-26-2017, 07:08 PM   #3
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Well, we have a 2017 ACE 30.1, and we flush pretty much exactly like you tried. I hook my flush hose to the flush connector and turn it on and watch the clear connector. After a while it starts running sort of clear. Then I close the black handle (against all rules and regulations ) and wait a while before dumping again.

With what you're reporting, I'd say you're not doing anything wrong; somethings awry. ( I love using "awry" in a sentence)
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Old 03-26-2017, 07:55 PM   #4
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There is a vacumn breaker in the flushing system water line that has to be mounted somewhere inside the coach above the floor height - it has to be higher than the black tank. It is required by code to make sure if the height of the liquid in the black tank becomes higher than the flush spray inside the black tank that it can not siphon back out thru the flush connection.

In my RV it is mounted against the sidewall side of the bathroom sink cabinet under the sink. It sounds like that is where a connection came open when you pressurized it with your water, or the vacumn breaker is defective. If you can't see it you can locate it by putting air into the black tank flush water connection and listening for the air escaping inside the coach. It could be hidden in a dead air space somewhere depending on the design of your RV.

X2 on making sure you check water pressure and use a pressure limiter to keep the water pressure on hoses and going into any water connection including the black flush connection on the RV to 60 PSI or less. The solvent welded and PEX connections shoud in theory take a lot more than 60 PSI before leaking or failing but less is better in this case.
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Old 03-26-2017, 10:22 PM   #5
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I just had this same problem with my 2012 Keystone Cougar. I had used the black tank flush before with no problem. Last time out, I hooked up the hose and turned the water on. Sounded like water was entering the black tank...Wrong!!! Water was spraying inside the wall and leaking out the bottom of the trailer. Discovered I have a vacuum breaker under the sink vanity. My part number was a B&B 571 which I bought another. Fortunately I'm able to see it and replace it. I have read where these vacuum breakers are behind walls. I'm just guessing you have the same problem. You just need to find it and replace it with the same type or a newer more reliable one. Here's a link to a thread which shows a picture. http://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/blac...-a-192351.html You can find the install diagram by looking up the diagram here...http://www.bandbmolders.com/files/Ta...tructions2.pdf I'm pretty new at this trailering stuff but am an accomplished DIYer. You may have a completely different problem but it sounds familiar due to all the threads I found about this. Good luck.

Art
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Old 03-27-2017, 12:45 AM   #6
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'Anti-siphon vacuum breaker backflow preventer'

Whew---that's a mouth full.
Anyway. it is as described ...installed on black tank flush system to prevent cross contamination

Sometimes they get installed backwards...so water can't flow to tank nozzle and flows out open top inside RV
Sometimes they fail and water flows out open top






Cheap one--typically used by RV mfg


Better one....




OR-do away with it. Remove and hard pipe it.
Then just use a vacuum breaker device on garden hose.
No more water flooding inside RV------vacuum breaker device on garden hose preforms same function and is OUTSIDE.,,,,just saying



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Old 03-27-2017, 05:44 AM   #7
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I did away with the stupid vacuum breaker.

From B&B website: http://www.bandbmolders.com/pdf/B_BC...terSection.pdfATMOSPHERIC VACUUM BREAKER/
CHECK VALVE
(571 Vac Chk) must be 6” above flood
rim of the highest fixture connected
to the wasteholding tank. (ASSE
1001-02; device shall not be installed
where the venting of water from the
device during normal functioning will
cause damage.)

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Old 03-27-2017, 06:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UFO Pilot View Post
How high is the water pressure? My black flush doesn't work when the water pressure is too high. I finally put a restrictor in the black flush hose.
According to my pressure regulator that I added to the fresh water hose (screw on hose type) the camps water pressure was 40 psi.

Should have been reasonable I assume?

Larry W.
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Old 03-27-2017, 06:02 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdInArk View Post
Well, we have a 2017 ACE 30.1, and we flush pretty much exactly like you tried. I hook my flush hose to the flush connector and turn it on and watch the clear connector. After a while it starts running sort of clear. Then I close the black handle (against all rules and regulations ) and wait a while before dumping again.

With what you're reporting, I'd say you're not doing anything wrong; somethings awry. ( I love using "awry" in a sentence)
LOL.

Thanks. The procedure seemed correct to me, but what do I know. It does seem something is not right.

Larry W.
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Old 03-27-2017, 06:07 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powercat_ras View Post
There is a vacumn breaker in the flushing system water line that has to be mounted somewhere inside the coach above the floor height - it has to be higher than the black tank. It is required by code to make sure if the height of the liquid in the black tank becomes higher than the flush spray inside the black tank that it can not siphon back out thru the flush connection.

In my RV it is mounted against the sidewall side of the bathroom sink cabinet under the sink. It sounds like that is where a connection came open when you pressurized it with your water, or the vacumn breaker is defective. If you can't see it you can locate it by putting air into the black tank flush water connection and listening for the air escaping inside the coach. It could be hidden in a dead air space somewhere depending on the design of your RV.

X2 on making sure you check water pressure and use a pressure limiter to keep the water pressure on hoses and going into any water connection including the black flush connection on the RV to 60 PSI or less. The solvent welded and PEX connections shoud in theory take a lot more than 60 PSI before leaking or failing but less is better in this case.
Thanks,

I will look for it, and I do have what I need to use air in the system instead of water. Regulated of course. Funny thing is I did actually buy a screw on vacuum breaker to use on the flush hose, but forgot to use it.

Larry W.
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Old 03-27-2017, 06:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renoman View Post
I just had this same problem with my 2012 Keystone Cougar. I had used the black tank flush before with no problem. Last time out, I hooked up the hose and turned the water on. Sounded like water was entering the black tank...Wrong!!! Water was spraying inside the wall and leaking out the bottom of the trailer. Discovered I have a vacuum breaker under the sink vanity. My part number was a B&B 571 which I bought another. Fortunately I'm able to see it and replace it. I have read where these vacuum breakers are behind walls. I'm just guessing you have the same problem. You just need to find it and replace it with the same type or a newer more reliable one. Here's a link to a thread which shows a picture. http://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/blac...-a-192351.html You can find the install diagram by looking up the diagram here...http://www.bandbmolders.com/files/Ta...tructions2.pdf I'm pretty new at this trailering stuff but am an accomplished DIYer. You may have a completely different problem but it sounds familiar due to all the threads I found about this. Good luck.

Art
Thanks,
I will look for this and see if I can test it without flooding the coach. I should be able to bench test with air or water if it is where I can get to it.
Under the bathroom sink does seem likely since it is basically right above the tanks.

Larry W.

Larry W.
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Old 03-27-2017, 06:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit View Post
'Anti-siphon vacuum breaker backflow preventer'

Whew---that's a mouth full.
Anyway. it is as described ...installed on black tank flush system to prevent cross contamination

Sometimes they get installed backwards...so water can't flow to tank nozzle and flows out open top inside RV
Sometimes they fail and water flows out open top






Cheap one--typically used by RV mfg


Better one....




OR-do away with it. Remove and hard pipe it.
Then just use a vacuum breaker device on garden hose.
No more water flooding inside RV------vacuum breaker device on garden hose preforms same function and is OUTSIDE.,,,,just saying



Great post, Thanks. I will go hunting. Hopefully it is under the bathroom sink and not buried in the shower wall. I think I would rather use the one on a garden hose also, as long as it will have the same effect.

Larry W.
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Old 03-27-2017, 06:27 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnmor View Post
device shall not be installed [/FONT]
where the venting of water from the
device during normal functioning will
cause damage.)

Boy if this is the issue and it is in the wall or under the bathroom sink then they install them in the wrong places.

You would think that RV builders would want one that has a tube that vents it down through a tube through the floor in case it overflows. Like a car radiator overflow from back in the day.

Larry W.
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Old 03-27-2017, 06:40 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by mrf1002u View Post
Great post, Thanks. I will go hunting. Hopefully it is under the bathroom sink and not buried in the shower wall. I think I would rather use the one on a garden hose also, as long as it will have the same effect.

Larry W.
Here is a question though.

If it is the vacuum breaker that is the issue and I hard pipe bypass it and use the screw on breaker on the hose instead, will I have an issue? I ask this because the connection for the tank flush is in fact well below even the bottom of the black tank, much less the top of the black tank.

Larry W.
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