My parents propane has stopped flowing

[dsbike]

My parents 2001 Journey is having heater issues. There are 2 seperate issues.

The first one is that the propane has stopped flowing the past 2 nights with temps below 32'F, not to sure just how cold it got here in Concord NC the last 2 nights. My dad has taken a heatgun and warmed the regulator & the tank shutoff valve and the propane begins to flow. I know propane does not freeze until -304'F, it boils at -44'F & is in a gas state when used in a normal situation. So any ideas as to why the propane is not flowing? I think it is the regulator not working properly. My dad replaced the regulator last winter because of the sencond issue I am going to tell you about. This is not to say the regulator can't be bad though. Today my dad wrapped the regulator & pipes with insulation foam. We will see if this helps tonight.

The second issue is, When the propane is working normal the heat part of the heater cyles on for 3 minutes then off. the fan continues to run for about 1 minute then the heat cycles back on. This continues & never does warm up the motor home. My Coachman cycles on & off but the heat stays on longer. We have cleaned out the duct work, there are no restrictions. We opened the return vent to as asked to do so by the manufacture tech desk last year. We also added one vent in the bedroom as asked to do. None of this has helped. They called a service tech last winter in FL and he sold them a inverter/converter for a ridculas amount and this did not fix it either. Does anyone have any thoughts as to what to do to fix this propblem? They can not keep thier MH warm without space heaters. Thier heater is a Suburban, I do not know the model off hand. I am at work.

[1ciderdog]

Just a thought but could there be some water in the propane tank? Just enough to freeze the valve and reduce or stop the flow of gas?

[dsbike]

Yea we thought about that, but how do you know or check for it? There is a drain on the bottom of the regulator & after warming it up there is no water coming out. But of coarse this would not be on the gas side of the diaphram.

[1ciderdog]

Dan
You could take the RV to a propane dealer and have the propane vacuumed out. That would pull the moisture as well as the propane but who knows if that will solve the problems. They also could verify the regulator is functioning correctly. You might try talking to a propane dealer to see if they have suggestions. When I added a propane freezer to my house last year I wanted to use a small tank but was convinced to go a bit larger. Reason being that summer time would be OK but cold temperatures reduce the rate that the liquid propane will turn into vapor. There are charts available that show the amount of propane produced by various size tanks at different temperatures. Do we presume the propane tank is original and large enough to provide vapor for the heater? I suspect your best choice would be to talk to the propane guys.

[GaryKD]

Hi dsbike,
Consider installing a new regulator. They are only about $25 and easy to install. If this fixes problem #1 it should fix problem #2. I bet the two problems are related. The furnace burns propane like water going over Niagara falls. All kinds of unusual problems occur when the propane flow is not enough to satisfy the furnace.

If the new regulator fixes the problems and then the problems return, one has a bad tank of propane. Then I'd do what 1ciderdog, posted.

My assumption is the propane source is the coach tank installed by the manufacturer. No external tanks or aftermarket devices.

Try the cheap and easy fix first.

[dsbike]

Thanks for the suggestions. I will pass them on to my Dad. The tank is 100 gal. They also have a 20 gal tank. It does the same on either tank. I think he should change the regulator again & see if that does anything. Then maybe go get the tank vacumned out & reserviced.
Is there any difference between propane bought in the winter & propane bought in the summer? Any different additives like gasoline does? Just curious.

[paz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsbike Is there any difference between propane bought in the winter & propane bought in the summer? Any different additives like gasoline does? Just curious.

What we commonly call propane is really liquid petroleum (LP) gas. It is a byproduct of oil refining. LP gas is usually mostly propane, but it is frequently a mixture of propane and butane. In summer and in the south, LP can contain much more butane. The boiling point of butane is right around 32º, which means it will tend to remain liquid when it's below freezing outside. Not only that, but as you draw LP out of the tank, the gas will expand further lowering the temperature inside the tank.

Some LP can contain remnants of heavier petroleum fractions called "heavies." Heavies are a dark, oily substance that can clog regulators and orifices.

The only additive I'm aware of in LP gas is the mercaptan that gives the gas it's characteristic odor.

[dsbike]

[QUOTE=paz;750394]What we commonly call propane is really liquid petroleum (LP) gas. It is a byproduct of oil refining. LP gas is usually mostly propane, but it is frequently a mixture of propane and butane. In summer and in the south, LP can contain much more butane. The boiling point of butane is right around 32º, which means it will tend to remain liquid when it's below freezing outside. Not only that, but as you draw LP out of the tank, the gas will expand further lowering the temperature inside the tank.

Paz, so if I read this correctly; if my Dad last filled his tank in Fl last May it could contain a higher amount of butane. If this is true under freezing conditions the flow would be much weaker and thus causing the low flow he is experiencing in the early morning 20' temps.
After talking to my Dad last night after I returned home from work, I had a slight misunderstanding on the propane flow. Correct my statement to this, when my Dad turns on a stove burner & then the heater kicks on the oven flame will cut out. There is not enough pressure to maintain both unless he heats up the valve & regulator outside. After reading Paz's statement this makes sense as to why it would do this. However the heater still cycles on & off even in warmer temps above freezing. I am not to sure they are related problems.
I suggested to my Dad that he have the tank emptied & reserviced with fresh propane. Not sure what he is going to do.
Thanks for your replies.
Dan

[38 Special]

I run into this some in the gas log business. The recently installed regulator does not push enough gas through. This is causing the regulator to freeze. Either lower the propane useage (probably not possible) or replace the regulator with one the same as originally speced on the coach.

[TN Bill]

I have a friend that had that problem and we fought it all winter last year in FL. Changed the regulator with 2 different ones and never fixed the problem. He has 2 furnaces and could sometimes enough gas to run one. He took it to a propane distributor and they put alcohol in it to mix with the water and burn it. That appears to have fixed his problem.

[autofish]

You could put an inline pressure gage on the tank side to see if the psi in the tank is too low.

[rebelone]

I had the same problem couple years ago,I filled tank in Brownsville Texas. When I got to Willams, Arizona it was cold. Fridge would only work on Generator or electric. Also my propane Generator also had running problems. When I returned home filled with propane here in Canada all worked fine. In my search up to that time I found that to check flow of propane you have to measure with water colume gauge. Not sure of spelling. This is only way to know if you have proper gas flow. Some one here on IRV2 will know? This gauge can be made up with few tools. If you google it you will find it. Hope this helps.
Good Luck

[Gary RVRoamer]

The proper propane pressure (after the regulator) is 11 water column inches (roughly 0.5 psi).

However, the problem here seems to be an inadequate rate of flow, not low pressure.

[dsbike]

I won't see my Dad until Sunday evening or Monday morning. I know he has an appointment on Wed for the Norcold recall & they are going to look at this problem also. I will post after that what the outcome, if any is. Thanks for all your advise.

My Dad is a retired heavy equipment mechanic & this thing is driving him crazy which in turn is driving my Mom crazy. Guess who gets to listen to her complain about it? Hint - they are parked in my driveway until Jan 1st when they head to FL. Until it operates correctly it will be a priority for my Dad.