Need Help Understanding Electrical Protection

[VLT]

Hi, I'm new to this site. I ordered a travel trailer (2012 Rockwood Ultra Lite 2104, 30amp) and it should be here in approx a month or so. I'm trying to get prepared for things before receiving it. I don't have a lot of knowledge about electrical protection for my camper. I've read up on some, but still don't understand. I will be camping at Ocean Lakes Campsite in Myrtle Beach where there are probably over 1000 campsites. I need to know if I need a autoformer, which I know nothing about...do I need a surge protector...or what else do I need to protect my camper from electrical problems. I've read some campsites don't allow surge protectors and if seen, they have to be taken down...plus, people steal them. I've read people keep them in their camper, but if it has to connect to the end of the plug to the campsite, I don't see how that can be done. Do I need both (surge protector and autoformer)? What does one do and not the other? Is this something I can do with no knowledge or should I have the dealer install, etc? Any help/advice would be great. Thanks, Vicky

[RottenRalph]

Vicky

I have never used anything other than one of these gizmos.

Home Electrical Guide: How To Test an Electrical Outlet - ACME HOW TO.com

They don't provide surge protection but it will tell you if the camp site is wired properly.

I first test the campsite outlet. If all is okay, I plug in my RV then retest any outlet in the RV.

[Ronnie Bledsoe 2006 Dutchstar 43']

I would for sure get a surge protector as it protects your electronics from low voltage..below 103 v and high above 132v. I like you am not real sharp about electricity, but I did install the surge protector myself following directions very closely and reading many posts on this forum, The install, in my case. in the electrical bay in front of the transfer switch was pretty easy. Some advice from the forum was to buy a length of wire for hookup rather than cutting the RV's cable. I have never heard or read anywhere that a campground had a rule against surge protectors, but I have heard of them being stolen. The surge protector has worked for me in RV parks for both high and low voltage. One park was very HAPPY that I reported a high voltage problem as it affected about 15 sites and could have resulted in some very unhappy campers.
Go on line to the Progressive Industries web site and read their manual for a 30 amp surge protector. If you are unsure find someone to do it for you.

["007"]

Welcome to irv2 Vicky.
Here is a thread that should help you, your electric bay in trailer compartment can acomedate the Surge Protector.
A Autoformer may not be needed at your Campground at MB. Most of them type CG's have ample power for their sites.

This thread will explain your two voltage systems in your trailer.
Enjoy the forums and do post often.

[wa8yxm]

Do you need:

Autoformer: Hard to say. At this point in my life I stay in normally five campgrounds and a couple of other places.. In ONE of them I need the Autoformer big time, the rest, not so much if at all.

Surge/Spike protection.. I have spike protection in the motor home.. Funny thing, Was at a campground that also spike protectes the main power panel.. Same protector I have (Guess it's big enough) Back to topic,, A Spike is a sudden brief increase in voltage.. Thing works good.

Surges are longer increases in voltage and would fry my spike protector fast (Been there, done that) I've only expierenced surges one time.. The popular RV Surge protectors are really very good units and I do recommend them. Are they necessary? Good question, but they can save you thousands in repairs if (When) Stuff happens.

With both Autoformers (Which is what many campgrounds do not allow) and Surge guards,, I recommend an "installed portable" type device. I realise that sounds strange but here ishow the Hughes Autoformer is installed.

This is sold only as a portable.. The "Install kit" consists for a short cord, plug and outelt, you remove the power feed from your transfer switch or breaker panel (Depending on if you have a transfer switch) and transfer it to the outlet.

Now you install the short cord in it's place.. Plug the autoformer into the outlet and the short cord into the autoformer. The Surge guard.. Same install.

[VLT]

Hi "007"...I went to that link, but didn't see where the hardwired surge protector would go in the camper bay. Is this something I can do or should I have it done professionally? Thanks much, Vicky

[jackrobinryan]

Hi Vicky,

I've done OK without an autoformer for years now, but won't leave home without protection for the incoming AC service.

Had good luck and support from progressive industries products. Assming you have a 30 Amp service on your trailer, I'd suggest :
EMS-PT30C and a cable lock to keep it secure.

if you have 50A service:
EMS-PT50C

These are both portable and require no space inside a bay or professional installation.

Costs a few bucks, but more than worth the damage avoided the first time it is needed.

jack

[AFChap]

Never heard of a campground prohibiting use of a surge protector/surge guard, etc. I HAVE heard of campgrounds prohibiting use of autoformers. I normally do test unfamiliar outlets with a multi-meter before hooking up, but I ALSO would not be comfortable without my SurgeGuard that protects me from both high and low voltage, in addition of mis-wired outlets. Mine is hardwired in the electrical bay. I bought it after I had ac damage from sagging voltage, and it has tripped many times since due to both very low and very high voltage.

[GaryKD]

Hi VLT,
Do you know how much room you have in your electrical bay? Until you understand that, there is not much you can do. A sample of a portable 30 AMP surge protector is at Technology Research Corp - Portable 30 amp Surge Guard - Surge Protectors - Camping World. A sample of a 30 AMP power transformer is at Technology Research Corp - 30 Amp RV Voltage Regulator - Surge Protectors - Camping World .

For me, both are mandatory. For you, the surge protector yes. The power transformer, it all depends. I have needed both of these devices West of the Mississippi River. West of the Rocky Mountains I have needed both of these units quite a bit. East of the Mississippi only needed both at Tropical Palms RV Resort in Kissimmee, Florida.

If you'd like to see how they fit in my electrical bay go to:
Electrical Bay With Components - iRV2.com RV Photo Gallery there is a short narrative of how the power flows if you scroll down to below the photo. For a better look at the surge protector go to Electrical Bay Better Picture Of Surge Protector - iRV2.com RV Photo Gallery

What do they do?
Surge protector looks at electricity in black and white. Good or not good. If not good, cut power to the RV. Each manufacturer looks at different things and has slightly different specs.

Power Transformer (most call this an AutoFormer but there are different brands). This device is really a power transformer. It looks at electricity with an eye for correcting what is wrong. Without getting into details, the power transformer tries to keep the proper relationship in the incoming electrical between WATTS, Volts and AMPS. Way too many CGs are not buying enough power from the power company. When everyone turns on their high use appliances there are not enough WATTS to go around. Any electrical appliance will try to draw its' rated WATTS or die trying. Within the specs of the unit, the power transformer will adjust the WATTS and AMPS so the current will be enough to power whatever you have turned on. Once the units specs are exceeded, the unit will freely pass power to the RV as it comes from the site power pedestal. For me, my surge protector will see this and shut the power off to the RV.

As to CGs not liking power transformers, urban legends die hard. They have the reputation of "stealing" power from other RVs on the same circuit. In reality nothing could be further from the truth. My 50 AMP power transformer uses 1 AMP of power when at full usage. Most of the time it just sits there monitoring the incoming electricity. Since I paid for a 50 AMP (in reality 100 AMP) site, my power transformer, using 1 AMP, should make me well within my rights to have it. In addition it is impossible for the power transformer to "steal" electricity from the CG or other RVs. The power transfer unit only looks at incoming electricity and then takes what it gets and adjusts it for proper use in my RV.

This is, most likely, more than you wanted to know, but I hope it is useful.

[VLT]

Thank you ALL, for your help...I really appreciate it! Vicky

[alvinc]

In a CG with chronically low voltage, RVs with autoformers will draw more power than RVs without a autoformers.

Personally I have no guilt when using an autoformer. The power pedestal that I rented is supposed to supply 30 amps at a nominal 120 volts. As long as I don't exceed 30 amps I am within my rights. The autoformer protects the RV appliances I paid for.

Details:

The purpose of an autoformer is to maintain a nominal 120 Volts output within its operational limit. The word nominal means that it will try to maintain 120 volts, if the voltage goes too high or too low it will give up.

Detour into Physics: "amps x volts = watts" Amps is the count of the number of electrons flowing (6.241 x 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 electrons flowing past a give point in 1 second, that is supposed to be 18 zeros), voltage is the electrical driving force behind the electrons (kinda like water pressure, but not the same) and watts is the amount of power. From this you can see that increasing either/or amps or volts increases the amount of power available.
Return from Detour.

For this example lets assume the RV wants to draw 20 amps (at 120 volts), or 2400 watts. Unfortunately the CG only has 105 volts available.

Without the autoformer electronic devices like computers, TV, etc will draw what they need regardless of voltage (within their voltage operating limits). For example the power supply of your laptop is designed to work between 90-130 volts to produce 18 volts for the laptop. It is already designed to handle varying voltages.

Without the autoformer non-electronic devices such as lights, heaters (both resisitive) and motors will run slower, work less efficiently, and have a slightly shorter lifespan. Because of the voltage derating (105 volts) the RV might only consume 2000 watts of power or 19.1 amps

With the autoformer the appliances will work efficiently as designed at 120 volts. The autoformers job is manipulate the "Amps x Volts = Watts" equation to maintain a nominal 120 volts. The autoformer achieves this by increasing its amperage draw from the CG to 22.9 amps. 2400 watts / 105 volts = 22.9 amps (just plain algebra).

Without the autoformer the RV draws 19.1 amps, with the autoformer it draws 22.9 amps.

There is a limit to what the autoformer can do. If the amps exceeds the rating of the circuit breaker in the pedestal, the circuit breaker will trip.

The net result is that RVs with autoformers will increase their amperage draw during low voltage and decrease their amperage draw during high voltage. Their main purpose to give your appliances the longest life possible.

See next post for what electronic devices and autoformers mean to the power company.

[alvinc]

Over the years the power utilities have used voltage to help maintain power to the most people possible. These are called brownouts.

A brownout is when the utility purposely reduces the voltage to is customers. The alternative to a brownout, if insufficient power is available, is to turn the power off to some sections of the power grid; your neighborhood maybe.

If you compare the types of appliances we use now with the appliances used in the mid 20th century (1950's). There are a lot more electronic types of devices that must maintain a constant voltage internally and regulate this regardless of the incoming voltage (within reason). Example include: computers, audio equipment, TV's, etc.

As more and more devices contain electronically regulated power supplies the ability to use brownouts as a load balancing technique will diminish.

[puttin]

The best surge protector is the Progressive...and I would get the portable one. Autoformers are big and heavy, costly, and most of the time- not necessary. If you need it, I'd consider going somewhere else.

[VLT]

Puttin...I see the Progressive has 2, the SSP30 Smart Surge and the EMS PT 30 C...which one? Thank you