Norcold 1200 LRIM Defrost Cycle

[Dr4Film]

Al,

At those temps and times, something is more seriously wrong with your unit, I believe. You can try the fan, I have one and it really helps in circulating the cold air and keeping the frost off of the fins at least where the fan is located. However it will not correct a faulty problem situation such as yours. It will only help in making a good situation better.

I am beginning to think it may have something to do with your specific control board, the brain so to speak. I am not an electrical engineer by no means but was wondering if there are methods to troubleshoot whether the electronics and the brains of the board are working correctly versus buying one just to try? I know these are expensive. It appears that when you force the refer by manually resetting the unit, power off/on, it seems to work better until the next defrost cycle, aren't you basically resetting the logic on the board?

Only a thought.

Dr4Film ----- Richard.

[al.m]

Originally Posted by RV Wizard

Al, a fan across the evaporator will do a couple of good things.
1. A more uniform fresh food compartment temperature will be achieved.
2. When unit goes into defrost the ice can be melted off more quickly and the cool air circulated so as to not raise the compartment temperature as much.

That's my thinking exactly. Lacking a heat source to warm the fins, waiting for the box temperature to rise when the ambient room temp is in the low 60's is going to take a while. I have checked with an ampmeter that the control board is actually shutting off both electrical elements and one of the relays is not hanging up.

The good news is that the cooling unit does not have a problem making the box cool. Since I started measuring the interior temp of the box I found that what my wife had been doing to 'get more cooling' by turning up the temp setting to nine was actuallycausing the box to perform worse due to the heavy icing of the fins which reduced cooling capacity and needing more time to defrost. At a setting of 4 the box maintains an interior temp right around 34-35 degrees and there is minimum frost on the fins. Freezer temp runs 6-8 degrees.

I think that the performance is worse when the ambient temperatures are low. I recall a previous coach that had a Dometic refrigerator that had a switch that activated the internal lamp for heat when the ambient temperature was low. This improved the freezer temperature. I have considered a modification to the Norcold that would allow the light to run when the door is closed. I'll see how the fan unit works first. I ordered a 12V unit. I checked that there is a 12V circuit to power it from the lamp circuit when the door is closed.

Regards, Al

[al.m]

Originally Posted by Dr4Film

Al,

At those temps and times, something is more seriously wrong with your unit, I believe. You can try the fan, I have one and it really helps in circulating the cold air and keeping the frost off of the fins at least where the fan is located. However it will not correct a faulty problem situation such as yours. It will only help in making a good situation better.

I am beginning to think it may have something to do with your specific control board, the brain so to speak. I am not an electrical engineer by no means but was wondering if there are methods to troubleshoot whether the electronics and the brains of the board are working correctly versus buying one just to try? I know these are expensive. It appears that when you force the refer by manually resetting the unit, power off/on, it seems to work better until the next defrost cycle, aren't you basically resetting the logic on the board?

Only a thought.

Dr4Film ----- Richard.

I wish I could figure out what is wrong (other than the Norcold design). It appears to me, based on what I have learned, that it is working as designed.

If the design requires a specific temperature to exit the defrost cycle and start cooling, and the fin temperature (and I have verified that the thermistor temperature reading is within a degree +/-) does not reach that temp, then there is no way, other than resetting the board by power off / on that I can think of to cause cooling to restart. I am a retired electrical engineer with 35 years in the computer business and I have done all that I can think of doing to isolate the failure mode without specific logic specs and diagrams.

To me the Norcold 1200LRIM design is flawed and unfortunately they are on of the companies in the RV industry who won't talk to people with a problem. Their "take it to an authorized dealer" is less than helpful.

Al

[wagonmaster2]

I've been re-reading this thread as my 1200 No-Cold is doing about the same as all the problems talked about here. The worst part about the defrost cycle is when it happens during the day with the sun shining on that side of the coach and outside temps at 100 or above. Instead of the frig temp being in the 33-38 degree range it will rise to almost 50, very undesirable when it may take all night to regain the desired temp.

Has anyone had any luck by-passing the defrost cycle by turning the frig on/off every day, and if so is this constant daily on/off doing any damage to other parts of the electrical system of the frig?

It's been a couple years now, has anyone come up with more information?

[dwhit]

I do what you said...I "cycle" the on/off daily to avoid the defrost cycle. But, after several days of doing that the ice is thick enough that the fins JOIN TOGETHER with ice...and this will lower cooling efficiency as well. When the ice becomes too thick then it takes forever to defrost AND the heated bowl next to my boiler overflows with the drain condensate and now I have 1/4" of unwanted water where it will eventually rot the wood and rust the mechanical area. It's an official CATCH 22.

But yes...I make a decision everyday whether to defeat the defrost or allow it to proceed. I've seen no consequence to on/off control of the defrost cycle...other than the water problem. It's the ice cream and beer that is the priority.

Maybe I should jus' extend the condensate tube to drain outside? I dunno...more important things somewhere here....

[wagonmaster2]

Thanks for that information. I don't mind the defrost cycle on normal temperature days but nice to know that during these 98+ temperature days I do have some control over what the frig is automatically doing. Especially while on the road with no shade and unable to use the awning.

[Dr4Film]

It's been over 3 years since posting to this thread. My NotSoCold progressively had gotten worse to the point where I was turning it off and back on every morning to reset the logic. That was only a temporary fix.

Back in April of 2012, I had finally had it with the NotSoCold and tossed it out the curb side window and used the same window to bring in our Samsung RF197 residential fridge.

No more temperature fluctuations or throwing out spoiled food. No more ice cubes that form one solid block of ice, AND no more defrosting the freezer or the fins in the fridge.

NO MORE NORCOLD !!!

Dr4Film ----- Richard

[Sky_Boss]

Tongue firmly in cheek...

I thought my Norcold 1201 was always in a defrost mode.

[Muddypaws]

For Richard:

And apparently no more boondocking.

[Dr4Film]

Actually, Muddypaws, I can Boondock with the best of them especially with my larger on board tanks.

The amount of time anyone can stay at one location without shore power is actually determined by the size of the Fresh Water Tank, which in my case is 90 gallons. And if I had a way to schlep more fresh water i could stay longer.

My Grey is 60 gallons and the black is 40 gallons. With being conservative using the existing fresh water, I could go well over a week to ten days easily.

Whenever stopping for any length of time I always make sure that I have a full tank of diesel or at least 3/4 of a tank. That way I can run my Aqua-Hot and generator till the cows come home.

When your coach is FULLY self-contained there are no barriers. I am always ready for any disaster that may happen where we could be without power and water for a very long time.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

[Muddypaws]

How many hours a day do you have to run the genset? And do you have solar?

Three time a year we go to music festivals run
by a bunch of old hippie wanna be Eco-terrorists. Can't run a generator there for more than a few minutes before someone comes over and starts whining about diesel exhaust and mother Gaia etc. We've gone as much as 10 days without running a generator with only a small (15W) solar panel.

I've read many posts on this site that lead me to believe that with a residential 'fridge one has to run the generator for several hours a day. That is not acceptable to me.

That's one of the reasons why I've put so much time & energy into making our Norcold work. And it works better than the rather high end and expensive refer in our stick house.

I'm keeping an eye on the Attwood Helium absorption system as well as the 12V compressor refers. Nothing big enough for my interests yet......

We're contemplating a new coach sometime in the next year or so and many of the ones we're looking at come with compressor driven refers. Usually the coach builder installs 2 extra t-105 batteries only for the refer. But realistically, how long will a Samsung 197 or whatever run on two batteries? (Serious question)

[nodine]

Originally Posted by Muddypaws

How many hours a day do you have to run the genset? And do you have solar?

Three time a year we go to music festivals run
by a bunch of old hippie wanna be Eco-terrorists. Can't run a generator there for more than a few minutes before someone comes over and starts whining about diesel exhaust and mother Gaia etc. We've gone as much as 10 days without running a generator with only a small (15W) solar panel.

I've read many posts on this site that lead me to believe that with a residential 'fridge one has to run the generator for several hours a day. That is not acceptable to me.

That's one of the reasons why I've put so much time & energy into making our Norcold work. And it works better than the rather high end and expensive refer in our stick house.

I'm keeping an eye on the Attwood Helium absorption system as well as the 12V compressor refers. Nothing big enough for my interests yet......

We're contemplating a new coach sometime in the next year or so and many of the ones we're looking at come with compressor driven refers. Usually the coach builder installs 2 extra t-105 batteries only for the refer. But realistically, how long will a Samsung 197 or whatever run on two batteries? (Serious question)

We have owned 7 RV's over the years and everyone had an absorption refrigerator. Some worked better than others but all but the Norcold got the job done. The four door Norcold is not only a piece of junk but a fire hazard and a death trap for the family and pets. Our Norcold was working about as good as a Norcold 1200 can work on the day I removed it and sent it to the trash pile. When my friend could not get in his coach because the ammonia smell was so strong I knew it was just a matter of time before I would kill my dogs and perhaps my wife and myself.

As I look back I remember the smaller absorption refrigerators worked better than the larger two door and four door units we have owned. If your desire is to stay with the absorption refrigerator because they will operate from propane then I suggest you purchase an RV with a smaller refrigerator and stay away from the large four door units.

The Samsung RF197 averages about 300 watts of power. If you go the expense to install 300 watts of solar on the roof you could get by without a generator.

Bob

[Dr4Film]

Originally Posted by Muddypaws

How many hours a day do you have to run the genset? And do you have solar?

I've read many posts on this site that lead me to believe that with a residential 'fridge one has to run the generator for several hours a day. That is not acceptable to me.

That's one of the reasons why I've put so much time & energy into making our Norcold work. And it works better than the rather high end and expensive refer in our stick house.

I'm keeping an eye on the Attwood Helium absorption system as well as the 12V compressor refers. Nothing big enough for my interests yet......

We're contemplating a new coach sometime in the next year or so and many of the ones we're looking at come with compressor driven refers. Usually the coach builder installs 2 extra t-105 batteries only for the refer. But realistically, how long will a Samsung 197 or whatever run on two batteries? (Serious question)

When camping off the Grid, the generator runs for a couple of hours in the morning when making coffee & breakfast and then again for a couple of hours in the evening around dinner time. During the sunny part of the day, my one panel of solar helps a little but it's not 300 watts worth.

In addition to what Bob has written, I would not use two dedicated batteries for the fridge unless you have a huge solar array to support them. Which means that you also need a dedicated inverter and transfer switch for the fridge. Those are all added expenses that are not necessary.

I would recommend using that money to install additional batteries to the existing House Battery Bank thereby increasing the number of AH's for TOTAL use throughout the coach. The additional AH's will reduce the frequency of having to run the generator.

WRT people who always complain about the smell of diesel when running the generator, I wonder what those same people say when someones Aqua-Hot fires up? Do they still complain? If so then you can eliminate that by using a Gen-Turi which puts the fumes well above the roof of your coach. I have one but have not had to use it yet because when dry camping I park far enough away from others so I won't be bothering them with my noise or air pollutants.

BTW, those same people who always complain about something would not do well at some of the Dog Shows around the country where generators are running 24/7.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

[al.m]

Originally Posted by Muddypaws

How many hours a day do you have to run the genset? And do you have solar?

Three time a year we go to music festivals run
by a bunch of old hippie wanna be Eco-terrorists. Can't run a generator there for more than a few minutes before someone comes over and starts whining about diesel exhaust and mother Gaia etc. We've gone as much as 10 days without running a generator with only a small (15W) solar panel.

I've read many posts on this site that lead me to believe that with a residential 'fridge one has to run the generator for several hours a day. That is not acceptable to me.

That's one of the reasons why I've put so much time & energy into making our Norcold work. And it works better than the rather high end and expensive refer in our stick house.

I'm keeping an eye on the Attwood Helium absorption system as well as the 12V compressor refers. Nothing big enough for my interests yet......

We're contemplating a new coach sometime in the next year or so and many of the ones we're looking at come with compressor driven refers. Usually the coach builder installs 2 extra t-105 batteries only for the refer. But realistically, how long will a Samsung 197 or whatever run on two batteries? (Serious question)

A couple of comments.
1. When a coach manufacturer installs two additional batteries they are (or should be) part of the existing battery bank bringing the total capacity up to 650+ AH capacity assuming 6V GC2 batteries. The inverter/charger sees them as a single source. The inverter/charger should be sized to provide a bulk charge rate of 100 amps or more. Generally a 2000 watt will provide 100A charge and a 3000 watt unit 150A. This is important to bring the batteries back quickly. A 12V converter/charger won't hack it.

2. Choosing the particular refrigerator is important. Low energy consumption is of utmost important. All models are not created equally. Check the yellow tab for a relative efficiency.

3. As for diesel exhaust smell. First make sure that the diesel is running properly. NO black smoke. Second get a Genturi to get the exhaust over the top of the Coach. We got one when we started taking the coach to NASCAR races. No more smell and a good neighbor. Most coach owners with diesel generators at the races have one.

4. I just replaced our Norcold 1200. Four failures of the piece of junk was enough. I chose a Samsung RF197 based on low power consumption and Modified Sine Wave friendly. According to Samsung, the internals of the RF197 are 100%DC, rectified from AC input so the sine wave or modified sine wave don't mater since RMS energy.

We have had four RVs with Absorption refrigerators in different RV's and not one of them has offered the cooling performance that the RF197 does. After the installation it was turned on and down to set temp in a couple of hours. Sure is nice to be able to depend on holding our chosen set temperature of 2 / 38 degrees.

With the defrost cycles that take the Norcold freezer up to 20 degrees and the refrigerator up to 50 degrees every 49 hours there is no way that it can compare.

We have not dry camped with the new refrigerator yet but my back of the envelope calculations say that with my 650AH capacity battery bank I should be able to easily run a day between charges if necessary. Our normal operation when dry camping is to fire up the generator in the morning and again in the evening for a bit. With 100 amps charge capacity I don't see a problem with 2-4 hours charge time. We have dry camped in many places and have never run into a place that would not allow this much time.

Also, from an energy consumption perspective it will consume less energy than the Norcold 1200 when it is running on electric. The 1200 consumes 450 watts constantly (2x225W per element) and runs 24x7 during the hot summer days. The RF197 provides control over the heaters that further reduce external condensation. When not needed they can be turned off. The Norcold 1200 provided no user control of the 12V door heaters other than putting a piece of black tape over the contact buttons.

Fire hazards from the Norcold and repeated recalls were less than convenient.

The additional 50% capacity of the RF197 will be enjoyed by us. No more need to remove a bottle or two of beer to fit some groceries after a trip to the WalMart

From a cost perspective the installation of the RF197 in our coach was a couple hundred $'s more than the last Norcold 1200 cooling unit replacement that we had done two years ago.

Al