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Old 08-28-2015, 12:57 PM   #57
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Sounds like Dometic has gone downhill is recent years which a shame. They use to make really rock solid products. I know I have been very happy with them.


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Old 09-03-2015, 10:06 PM   #58
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Not sure why you would single out Dometic there. The days of refrigerators lasting 20 years are long gone, for regular residential units as well as RV propane units. No one builds for the long haul anymore. Customers are just not willing to pay for the longer life, although they may complain loudly when things break.
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Old 09-04-2015, 07:12 AM   #59
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Not sure why you would single out Dometic there. The days of refrigerators lasting 20 years are long gone, for regular residential units as well as RV propane units. No one builds for the long haul anymore. Customers are just not willing to pay for the longer life, although they may complain loudly when things break.
we also complain loudly when a 5 yr old refer burns up our motorhome
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Old 05-03-2016, 06:47 AM   #60
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Norcold Class Action Suit Settled (Finally-Maybe)

Jeff,

Is this another false alarm or is it true? I also realize that it has NOT been approved by the court so that is still waiting in the wings.

https://www.norcoldclassaction.com/Home.aspx

If it IS true, 25 shares value yet to be determined from a company that could possibly fail or go bankrupt doesn't sound like a fair settlement.

You were the one to start this specific CAS, can you expand upon the terms of the settlement and whether this is true or false?

Dr4Film ----- Richard
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Old 05-03-2016, 07:13 AM   #61
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13 years after I laid out my first $707 cooling repair bill....I might see a penny on the dollar while the attorneys are yuking it up all the way to the bank. The attorneys get paid first and we get "shares" payable on the amount of shares claimed and issued. I have 15 shares coming, which might total 15 cents.
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Old 05-03-2016, 11:04 AM   #62
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fear not o brave souls in the norcold insanity. They have plenty of money and a backup to the backup of insurance. Yes I am involved but cant discuss it. Patience !!!!
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Old 05-03-2016, 04:58 PM   #63
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The settlement fund is $36M. The lawyers want 25% of that. Then there are bunch of administrative costs. 25 shares may get you $25.
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Old 05-04-2016, 08:03 AM   #64
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Jeff,

Is this another false alarm or is it true? I also realize that it has NOT been approved by the court so that is still waiting in the wings.

https://www.norcoldclassaction.com/Home.aspx

If it IS true, 25 shares value yet to be determined from a company that could possibly fail or go bankrupt doesn't sound like a fair settlement.

You were the one to start this specific CAS, can you expand upon the terms of the settlement and whether this is true or false?

Dr4Film ----- Richard
Richard,

Thank you for the email. First, I would like to thank you. In the last couple of years you have always been courteous in your comments and questions. Few people will ever understand the personal time, energy, resources and commitment to a cause that it takes to pursue an effort like this - and I guess that is possibly why some people respond in public forums the way that they do.

Also, I'd like to say that there are SOME attorneys who do not deserve to be lumped in with the disdain so often - and easily - voiced by some people. Frankly, the attorney representing the interests of the plaintiffs in this matter is someone who deserves the respect and admiration of the 1,000,000 Norcold owners who's interests he has been doggedly fighting for for the last four, or five years. Terrance Beard, Esq., is a guy that has put it all on the line for unknown and unseen Norcold owners. Yes, there are two other sets of attorneys who seem a whole lot more interested in their chance at a big payday for themselves and their firms than the people who's interests they were originally supposed to protect. My opinion, they and their firms, are the problem and reason why so many people have so little faith in the legal system and class action litigation. Personally, those firms, and the defendants in this case disgust me - that is a personal opinion and I do have a right to have a personal opinion. The problem is that there are 1,000,000 RV's out there that have a defective and dangerous product in them. A responsible company - a good corporate American citizen - would have done everything within their power to address, fix and resolve the defect to protect the lives and property of their customers without ever having to force customers to sue them. I find the corporate conduct in this whole matter to have been shameful and it highlights much of what's wrong in this country.

Now, the Court (incredibly, surprisingly, disappointingly) granted preliminary approval of the settlement that I and the other five original plaintiffs have objected to for the last couple of years. As a side note, the settlement ended up structured by the settling plaintiffs attorneys in a manner that eliminated a quite a number of the original plaintiffs from the ultimate settlement. Some very dirty stuff there.... again, that is a statement of opinion on my part.

The general terms of the proposed settlement that has received preliminary approval from the court is that it is $36 million, less 25% ($9 million) for legal fees and $2,000,000 for the claims administrator (the company that sends out the notices, advertises the settlements, and administers the claims). So, that essentially leaves $25,000,000 to be paid out OVER 4 YEARS to the people who opt-in to settlement. Additionally, the owners of the N6 and N8 (in lieu of cash) will receive (a virtually meaningless and worthless) extended warranty on their units.

To be part of the settlement people will have to file a claim to the Administrator. If the owner's don't file a claim, they don't get to be part of the settlement. Then their claim has to be vetted and approved to be shown to be part of the settlement. If their claim is approved, then they will be paid some sum of money over a 4 year period. For this paltry and inadequate settlement that does NOTHING to reduce the risk of fire, property damage and death to 1,000,000 RV owners Norcold, Theteford and DKM will get blanket immunity against future claims from these 1,000,000 owners.

The five "non-settling plaintiffs" in this matter strongly object to the terms of this settlement. As it has been from the beginning the issue HAS NEVER BEEN ABOUT PERSONAL GAIN for those of us who have become the "non-settling plaintiffs" and are now prepared to become formal "objectors" to the settlement.

The five us of DID NOT ACCEPT - eg REJECTED - the "incentive payments" that were offered to the original named plaintiffs as an inducement to settle this matter almost three years ago against the interests of the class. We thought those special side deals were wrong and immoral. Turns out that we were right, and it now appears that those original people who accepted those offered incentive payments have now been removed from the case as named plaintiffs (e.g. - just an example of the filthy conduct / deals that sometimes happen in these types of cases).

Those of us who have objected have done so because this settlement DOES NOTHING to alleviate the danger unknowingly faced by the owners of these products. A few dollars, or a few hundred dollars, will not change the fact that there is a substantial and real danger that at some point these cooling units will fail, and that when they fail, the can cause an explosion and fire that could cause the RV to be destroyed and a potential loss of life.

We are very surprised, and sad, that the Judge ruled in the manner that she did. In prior rulings it very much appeared that she recognized and understood the salient facts of this case. Her preliminary approval of this case does not reflect that. A close friend - a long term attorney with much federal class action experience - told me that the Judge's ruling simply indicated to him that the Judge wanted / needed to clear her calendar and thus this ruling. I don't know. I do believe in the justice system and that ultimately it will be done right.

So, the "non-settling" plaintiffs are now evaluating with our legal counsel the options available. All owners who are part of the "Class" will soon have the chance to send the court their WRITTEN opinions on the settlement. I will provide the address and information on this forum for doing so for anyone who is interested in writing the court to either support, or object to the settlement.

I've attempted to attach a .PDF document to this post that is a copy of the notice that was received in the mail. It is interesting when you look at this card. The HEADLINE POST is 7 point type, and the BODY TEXT is 5 point type - far to small for the average person to be able to read without a magnifying glass. In the securities industry (stock brokerage) this notice would be against the law as the courts have said that using type this small prevents people from reading the terms (e.g. -"the small print") and understanding their rights and obligations. Like so much else in this case, this mailer has been designed to keep people from knowing their rights, keep them from being informed, and just hoping that they will throw the notice in the mail and then repeat the message "my brother in law got a check for $0.36 cents - it ain't worth it."

My message - you can either accept it, or you can stand up and be counted....

Thanks for asking Richard. The above is just my opinion, but I believe it is a relative and fair opinion of the facts.
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Old 05-04-2016, 10:35 AM   #65
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ours is in the kentucky court system and hoping for a verdict this dec. Been 3yrs.
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Old 05-04-2016, 11:35 AM   #66
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While I agree with most of the opinions of this settlement, this is the problem with class action lawsuits - the attorneys get rich and the people personally affected get very little. If you think anything different is going to happen, you are living in a fantasy world. The defendant pays out some cash, denies being at fault and everybody moves on. It's far from being fair, but that is what happens in class actions.
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Old 05-04-2016, 11:51 AM   #67
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While I agree with most of the opinions of this settlement, this is the problem with class action lawsuits - the attorneys get rich and the people personally affected get very little. If you think anything different is going to happen, you are living in a fantasy world. The defendant pays out some cash, denies being at fault and everybody moves on. It's far from being fair, but that is what happens in class actions.

I do not intend any offense, but it is this kind of reasoning and acceptance that has allowed class action lawsuits to be gutted in terms of their effectiveness.

Companies - like Norcold, Theteford and DKM - anticipate that people will roll over and act like a beat dog. That is why they fail to act with integrity - they are pretty sure that no one will stand up and take action, or that they can't find an attorney who will dedicate the years of time - totally unpaid - and many tens of thousands of dollars worth of expenses, travel, filing fees, costs, etc... on the chance that they might prevail at trial. It they don't win, then they lose everything they have risked. Lawyers being paid is not the problem. Lawyers being paid handsomely is not the problem. Lawyers being willing to sell out the interests of the class to assure themselves a good payday is the problem, specially when they have a highly winnable case worth much more to the class. Its a game between the plaintiffs lawyers and the defendants - figure out what they'll take as a sure thing to get them to all of the sudden decide that a bad settlement is the best that they can get. It is a total disservice to their clients.... Again, my opinion.

Anyway, you can't change the unfair system if you just choose to accept it and do nothing. I do know how you feel, but I am pleased that a group of us have chosen to stand up and fight the battle.
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Old 05-04-2016, 01:58 PM   #68
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I do not intend any offense, but it is this kind of reasoning and acceptance that has allowed class action lawsuits to be gutted in terms of their effectiveness.

No offense taken as I hope you won't take any to my opinion. My reasoning is based on the real world and the confines of a class action lawsuit. I've yet to witness a single class action lawsuit go far enough. Personally, I would love to see Norcold replace every single affected refrigerator and pay every affected owner for their troubles, but in the real world, that isn't going to happen. Norcold would just file for bankruptcy and the case would be dead in the water. Their parent company would then open up another "Norcold" under a different name and continue with business as usual. Fair? No, but again, that is reality.

I definitely applaud your ethics and your stance, and I certainly think the class action could have gone farther. After reading the court docs however (a lot of reading), it doesn't appear as though the judge agrees with either of us. In the meantime, I support you in your efforts to change the system.
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Old 05-05-2016, 08:20 AM   #69
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No offense taken as I hope you won't take any to my opinion. My reasoning is based on the real world and the confines of a class action lawsuit. I've yet to witness a single class action lawsuit go far enough. Personally, I would love to see Norcold replace every single affected refrigerator and pay every affected owner for their troubles, but in the real world, that isn't going to happen. Norcold would just file for bankruptcy and the case would be dead in the water. Their parent company would then open up another "Norcold" under a different name and continue with business as usual. Fair? No, but again, that is reality.

I definitely applaud your ethics and your stance, and I certainly think the class action could have gone farther. After reading the court docs however (a lot of reading), it doesn't appear as though the judge agrees with either of us. In the meantime, I support you in your efforts to change the system.
Thank you. A very nice, pleasant and respectful response. Probably realistic, as well. It is nice to have a courteous discussion.

Just as a note, Norcold could have replaced every cooling unit. According to documents provided in discovery, Norcold's actual cost of manufacturing of their cooling unit is $282 (info in a written email statement made by one Norcold executive / manager to another when discussing how it was cheaper just to ignore most customer complaints because they would just end up going away - only pay the ones that are the squeeky wheels). If I am not mistaken, the manufactured cost of their entire refrigerator is under $800 - although it has a retail price of almost $5,000.

It is sad - in sworn court documents and depositions, the claims made are that the cooling units cost $700, while in internal memos / emails their executives / managers know that the actual cost is $282.

Sadly, they are going to get by with this... because not enough people cared.

This problem isn't going to go away. As time goes on more and more accumulated corrosion in the boiler tubes is going to result in more and more cooling units rupturing, exploding and some of them will in fact catch on fire. Some fires will be minor. Others will be catastrophic. I've talked personally to people - elderly people - who were sleeping in the back when the coach exploded in the middle of the night. The escaped with only their pajamas and a dog. Away from home. No money, no clothes, surrounded by strangers in the middle of the night. They ended up losing more than $70,000 that wasn't covered by insurance, or re-imbursed by Norcold. They were traumatized - essentially PTSD.

At least one person has died. It is reasonable to assume that in the future more will. And as a company, Norcold, Theteford and DKM don't care enough to take care of the problem. (Stated as a well founded opinion)

You say that there is a danger that they might go out of business..... Frankly, I don't believe that and that was pretty well documented by financial expert testimony and analysis provided to the Court in discovery and depositions. But regardless of that, my question is "So what?" This is a company that knowingly manufactured a defective products after they knew it was defective. They've failed to fix the problem. And they have endangered the lives of hundreds of thousands of people - including my grand children who slept on the pull out bed next to the Norcold refrigerator.

There are companies that are wonderful corporate citizens. Problems - they face them, fix them and take care of their customers.

And then there are companies like Norcold.

It wasn't about money... It never has been... It is about the fact that people, their families and their lives are at danger. And I thought that was worth standing up for. And worth putting Norcold out of business if they refused to do the right thing. (Again, stated as my opinion).
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Old 05-05-2016, 11:43 AM   #70
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I couldn't agree with you more. All extremely valid points.

It's sad that not enough RV owners see these ticking time bombs as a threat. I've talked to many Norcold owners during my travels and the vast majority of them are either uninformed or they don't seem to care. There are many right here in this forum. I replaced my ticking time bomb after the second recall. Best decision I've ever made. I love my residential fridge.
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