PEX Plumbing

[Hooligan]

Recent trip to South Carolina, we had several PEX fittings fail. (Luckily while we were there) The fittings connecting the tubing in my motorhome are plastic. Initially a tee fitting cracked under the vanity, slight leak until I moved it and it fell apart. I had several "Flair-it" and"Watts" waterpex repair fittings with me, (similar to the "Sharkbite" parts) But as I repaired the "T", the next elbow in line broke and then another "T". Repairs then held until our return.
The RV service mgr here said most RV's mfgr's use those plastic fittings and that chlorine at high levels is detrimental to the PEX and the fittings. Levels above 4ppm are not recommended. Instructions with my filter say to sanitize with 6ppm....Apparently it is not a good idea to leave the chlorine in the system for a long period. Sanitize and then flush the system. A big factor also is stress on the fittings. Tubing that does not line up puts the fittings under constant pressure and they seem more likely to break when moved.
At home now, I have now replaced all the PEX fittings with brass fittings and used the "Apollo" brand clamps and clamp tool. This clamp is stainless steel and seems to work quite well. Lowe's had the fittings, clamps and the tool (about $40). I left the system overnight at 75lbs air pressure with no loss of pressure. And today, no water leaks....
I was suprised at the access to the plumbing, I was able to reach all but 3 fittings.
Apollo does not have a website but The PEX fittings and the Hydropex s/s clamps on this link look the same as the Apollo parts.
http://www.pexsupply.com/HydroPEX-Crimp-Fittings-365000

BTW Chasfm11 found a one hand Apollo PEX tool on e-bay. The tool I have gets tough out at arms length..
The "Flair-it" and waterpex/ "Sharkbite" fittings are easy to use, good additions to the tool box, a "Sham-wow" came in handy. Always a good idea to remember to turn the hose and water pump off when leaving the MH...

[AFChap]

True about the high concentration of chlorine being bad for the pex fittings. Do you use a good water pressure regulator whenever connected to shore water?? We have been in more than one RV park with extremely high water pressure -- in excess of 100psi. That too can cause lots of leaks!!!

[Indian Creek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooligan Recent trip to South Carolina, we had several PEX fittings fail. (Luckily while we were there) The fittings connecting the tubing in my motorhome are plastic. Initially a tee fitting cracked under the vanity, slight leak until I moved it and it fell apart. I had several "Flair-it" and"Watts" waterpex repair fittings with me, (similar to the "Sharkbite" parts) But as I repaired the "T", the next elbow in line broke and then another "T". Repairs then held until our return. The RV service mgr here said most RV's mfgr's use those plastic fittings and that chlorine at high levels is detrimental to the PEX and the fittings. Levels above 4ppm are not recommended. Instructions with my filter say to sanitize with 6ppm....Apparently it is not a good idea to leave the chlorine in the system for a long period. Sanitize and then flush the system. A big factor also is stress on the fittings. Tubing that does not line up puts the fittings under constant pressure and they seem more likely to break when moved. At home now, I have now replaced all the PEX fittings with brass fittings and used the "Apollo" brand clamps and clamp tool. This clamp is stainless steel and seems to work quite well. Lowe's had the fittings, clamps and the tool (about $40). I left the system overnight at 75lbs air pressure with no loss of pressure. And today, no water leaks.... I was suprised at the access to the plumbing, I was able to reach all but 3 fittings. Apollo does not have a website but The PEX fittings and the Hydropex s/s clamps on this link look the same as the Apollo parts. http://www.pexsupply.com/HydroPEX-Crimp-Fittings-365000 BTW Chasfm11 found a one hand Apollo PEX tool on e-bay. The tool I have gets tough out at arms length.. The "Flair-it" and waterpex/ "Sharkbite" fittings are easy to use, good additions to the tool box, a "Sham-wow" came in handy. Always a good idea to remember to turn the hose and water pump off when leaving the MH...

I've never seen anything as slick or as easy as the "Sharksbite" fittings. Carry a couple with you for emergencies and it's smooth sailin'. The only tool you'll need is a tubing cutter. Dave

[Jackm]

Flair-it fittings are used extensively by the industry because they're cheap and easy to install. However, I replace them with Quest fittings or other higher quality fittings whenever I make repairs. As a full-time RVer, I'm always looking for ways to reduce maintenance and system failures. Looks like you folks take the same approach. Good post.

Jack

[MFortie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackm Flair-it fittings are used extensively by the industry because they're cheap and easy to install. However, I replace them with Quest fittings or other higher quality fittings whenever I make repairs. As a full-time RVer, I'm always looking for ways to reduce maintenance and system failures. Looks like you folks take the same approach. Good post. Jack

Quest? As in the old gray polybutylene piping that has had so many lawsuits? I wouldn't touch that stuff with a ten foot pole -- I just replumbed my entire house with Uponor ProPEX tubing because I had about ten leaks since Jan. 1! House was built in '85 with Quest PB and we thought we escaped all the catastrophic failures -- nope; the piping decided to wait until the lawsuit deadlines passed! It's evil, I tell ya, evil!

Run and don't look back if anyone mentions Quest piping!!!!

[smlranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFortie Quest? As in the old gray polybutylene piping that has had so many lawsuits? I wouldn't touch that stuff with a ten foot pole -- I just replumbed my entire house with Uponor ProPEX tubing because I had about ten leaks since Jan. 1! House was built in '85 with Quest PB and we thought we escaped all the catastrophic failures -- nope; the piping decided to wait until the lawsuit deadlines passed! It's evil, I tell ya, evil! Run and don't look back if anyone mentions Quest piping!!!!

We also have Quest in our vintage 1995 stick home. It is my understanding (and confirmed by a local, trusted plumber) that the Quest pipe did not fail but the plastic crimp fittings that were used on many installations did fail. Mine has metal elbows, etc. metal crimp clamps. We've had no problems.

[MFortie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smlranger We also have Quest in our vintage 1995 stick home. It is my understanding (and confirmed by a local, trusted plumber) that the Quest pipe did not fail but the plastic crimp fittings that were used on many installations did fail. Mine has metal elbows, etc. metal crimp clamps. We've had no problems.

Count your blessings (and knock on wood!) Your plumber is correct; the majority of the failures were at the fittings and ours also were copper, not plastic.

MY experience was multiple axial breaks in the tubing itself. We bought the house new and didn't have any problems until after 2001 or so, then we had a couple of minor leaks. Only one was at a fitting.

This year however, we experienced ten different leaks (splits) along the hot water feed from the water heater, starting a couple of feet from the water heater. I would splice in a section of copper and no more than 3 or 4 days later the pipe would split a few more feet down the line.

Finally I demo'd the hallway ceiling (two-story, stick house) and replaced a 25' section with PEX (no more leaks); this spring I opened the rest of the walls/floors/ceilings and repiped with the ProPEX -- no leaks so far!

According to the plumbing reps I spoke with (we're an MEP firm so I have access to some pretty good info), San Diego's water is somewhat alkaline (pH 8 or so) and is harsher on the PB tubing. Maybe your water in VA isn't quite as bad...

Regards,

Mark

[EngineerMike]

I've used the John Guest type o-ring seal "push" fittings extensively for repairs & upgrades. They have a u-shaped keeper that maintains compression of the metal grips against the pex pipe O.D., which should be installed right at the end of a job in all fittings, or in any partial work where you don't want to crawl into again for this chore. Never had one separate or break in 4 years, and I run my RO input >100psi (w/a booster pump for faster tank fills) every time I fill the tank. I have had connections separate where I didn't use the keepers (duh).

I think the piping failures referenced above were from faulty tubing when PEX was new-ish to home construction. I haven't heard of any recent problems w/PEX tubing, and it has become very common throughout the country with many contractors converting to it exclusively wherever possible. In my 30 years of experience w/contractors, such conversions are rare; usually once a guy learns one thing, he's resistant to change of this sort, doesn't want to buy the tool set to convert, etc.

The OEM fittings used by almost all MH & TT mfgrs are the cheap way to go. The valves especially leak internally past their seal under high pressure. To cure problems w/that, I installed inline check-valves in the direction of flow (I think I now have about 4 in my coach) so there is no slow back-bleed of pressure thru these cheap OEM valves.