Power Drain and Charging issues

[chapdog]

We are about to hit the road for a few years, have had our rig out 4 times now, want to add solar for boondocking, but it seems we have other more fundemental issues with our electrical system to get figured out before worrying about adding solar.
First let me admit that an electrician, I am not. I've read alot from this forum and related links about how the systems work but nothing seems to fully explain (to my electronically simple mind) what we have found.




Issues:

• Hate generator
• Generator seems to switch to absorbtion mode @ 60-65%. Can I change that from the inverter/charger somehow? Shouldn't it be in bulk charge mode to closer to 95+%
• @ 67% we ran the gen. for an hour and it only got to 70%, turned it off and came back 10+ minutes later and it's (only) up to 80%. This is typical that several minutes after the gen. (or engine) is turned off the reading jumps up 10+%.
• When reading 100% in the late afternoon with refer on propane, virtually no lights for the evening and nothing else running we know of 'cpt main power switch we'll get up in the morning and the batteries are back to 60ish%.
• Get back from an extended trip @ 100%, park it, turn off main power and everything we know to turn off including propane sniffer, come back 2 days later and I'm back in the 60's%
• I've tried turning off the Inverter @ the inverter as well as at the inside display but that doesn't seem to help/matter.
• When power switch is on an LED in my dash radio, T'stat for fridge, and display of tank and battery status are on. I can't figure out what else might be draining the batteries.
• Batteries new and water levels fine

I appreciate that if I knew what I was doing and with the right equip/devices I could test everything but it just seems like there is something obvious I'm not doing or trying. I'm willing to have an electrician take a look but was hoping I could either solve it or narrow it down with your help.

Thank you in advance.

[Conquest102]

My first question is how old are the batteries?
Gens SUCK as chargers!
Who makes your inverter?
Are contacts clean?
Have you checked water level in batteries?
How many batteries do you have?
Are the house batteries true deep cycle or are they cross breeds?

[chapdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conquest102 My first question is how old are the batteries? Gens SUCK as chargers! Who makes your inverter? Are contacts clean? Have you checked water level in batteries? How many batteries do you have? Are the house batteries true deep cycle or are they cross breeds?

What I can tell you is that the batteries are less than 2 months old and are 4 golf cart 6 volts. I'll have a look and get back to you on the rest of it. I'm on my way back to the rig shortly to turn off the generator after running it for close to 3 hours.

[chapdog]

Inverter is a Xantrex RV2012
Contacts clean on Inverter and batteries
Water levels good all batteries all cells.
4 - 6 Volt Battery Direct Golf and Scrubber Commercial Golf Industrial batteries is what it says on the side of them.

Edit: Also, generator is a Cat PTS 8CSINM. 8KW

[chapdog]

Also, the 4 batteries are dedicated coach. 2 separate chassis batteries have solar charger on them with no issues.

[Conquest102]

Long shot question on my fridge there is a switch that controls a climate control system to prevent icing around the doors. It draws 12v all the time unless turned off.

[chapdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conquest102 Long shot question on my fridge there is a switch that controls a climate control system to prevent icing around the doors. It draws 12v all the time unless turned off.

Don't recall that having read the fridge manual not long ago but I'll double check. I do know that when I turn the main off the LED light on the fridge and the fridge itself do go off so I suspect that if there is that climate control feature it would be going off at the same time. I clearly seem to be having these battery draw down issues with the power off as well.

["007"]

If your batteries are low you need a good 12v battery charger to get them up to full charge.
The Gen, inverter/converter will only maintain them for a charge.
Have you ever read this thread?
Where ever you are parking the coach do you have at least 120V outlet?
If you did than your BIRD System would maintain your batteries first fully charging your house batteries than charging your engine batteries.
When your traveling the alternator will be charging the engine batteries and also your house batteries through the Bird System.
Are all your battery ground cables to your chassis frame ever been checked for cleanliness plus your Gen, inverter ground cables to frame also.

[chapdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 007";929213]If your batteries are low you need a good 12v battery charger to get them up to full charge. The Gen, inverter/converter will only maintain them for a charge. [B][URL="http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm Have you ever read this thread?[/URL][/B] Where ever you are parking the coach do you have at least 120V outlet? If you did than your BIRD System would maintain your batteries first fully charging your house batteries than charging your engine batteries. When your traveling the alternator will be charging the engine batteries and also your house batteries through the Bird System. Are all your battery ground cables to your chassis frame ever been checked for cleanliness plus your Gen, inverter ground cables to frame also.

Printed the first thread you linked to this morning but haven't read through it yet. Will also look at the BIRD system. Have no power available at storage currently. House/Chassis batteries always seem to be fully charged with the dedicated solar panels.
Will also have to look at the grounding suggestions you mentioned.

Really appreciate any and all suggestions.

[Dave78Chief]

As far as battery drain on your Newmar rig, even though this information is related to 2006-2007 units, I suspect the yours is simular. On page 22 of this pdf file (http://comnet2.newmarcorp.com/instan...s/elect12v.pdf) it shows that the steps, Hydro unit, LP detector and clock radio are all connected to the house battery side of the Battery Disconnect Relay. I would pull the fuses indicated for those devices after charging and see if the discharge symptoms change.
There are dwaings for several models starting on page 23 however they all seem to have simular loads connected to the house battery that are not disconnected by the Battery disconnect switch.

On page 35 several battery configurations are shown. The inverter connects directly to the battery so that to could be the source of your drain.

Dave

[chapdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave78Chief As far as battery drain on your Newmar rig, even though this information is related to 2006-2007 units, I suspect the yours is simular. On page 22 of this pdf file (http://comnet2.newmarcorp.com/instan...s/elect12v.pdf) it shows that the steps, Hydro unit, LP detector and clock radio are all connected to the house battery side of the Battery Disconnect Relay. I would pull the fuses indicated for those devices after charging and see if the discharge symptoms change. There are dwaings for several models starting on page 23 however they all seem to have simular loads connected to the house battery that are not disconnected by the Battery disconnect switch. On page 35 several battery configurations are shown. The inverter connects directly to the battery so that to could be the source of your drain. Dave

Thanks Dave,
I'll definitely check out those "leads".
LP detector does have a dedicated switch which I do turn off when in storage.
I've tried turning off the inverter at the inverter in addition to at the interior control panel (the Hydro unit?) but that hasn't seemed to make a noticeable difference.
The clock radio I assume is the dash radio. It does (appear to) go off when power is turned off but certainly may also be part of the draw down symptoms over night while boondocking. I was hoping to not have to resort to pulling fuses but I'll try that too.

It's sounding like my inquiry might have been better suited to the Newmar forum.

["007"]

Your OK in this forum we will find you where ever you go.

[chapdog]

OK....
I've checked and implemented several of the suggestions offered.
· Finished reading the links and threads (and others) related to RV electrical systems and specific to my (approximate) vintage Newmars. Some of it is starting to sink in...
· Double checked all battery, inverter, and grounding to frame terminals as well as all fuse boxes I could find and they are all pristine. (the guy who owned my DSDP before me kept the rig inside most of the time and took great care of it although he admits he's no electrician either)
· Triple checked all battery water levels armed with distilled water but while I could not find any mark to check against as to what is full they all were +- 3/8" above the plates. Could the bottom of the sides of the water opening throat that protrude into the cells be the full level? my water levels are about 1/2" below that but still well covering the plates so I did not put any additional water in given warnings not to over fill.
· Read carefully the Newmar tech manual (a few times) for the 2006 and 2007 provided then checked it against my '05 Dutchstar. While there certainly are many, many fuses they definitely are not in the same places as indicated. All I have located is a major panel(s) outside under the driver’s door, and 2 (12,120V) panels on the starboard inside rear above the Master bed window. Based on all I’ve read and looking for it seems I’m missing one. Went back to the Newmar Website and tried to find the technical manual for my year but to no avail. Could not lacate any breakers or fuses on the rear port side, in the outside front compartment or up under the dash driver’s area as suggested possible.
· I did locate and remove 2 fuses. 1/10 Amp for the “Monitor Panel/H2O pump” (which did not turn off my Intellite Remote panel) and 1/5Amp fuse marked "Step Power Switch". For the life of me even after reading all those tiny labels carefully 2x I could not find the “Radio Clock” or “LP Detector” or “Hydro Hot”.
· I also turned off the circuit breaker for the inverter in the back bedroom. Not sure if that will do anything being apparently on the 120V side of things but thought it was worth a try since inverter is hooked directly to battery.

That’s it. All charged up Again and we’ll see if any of those small changes has an effect. Does anyone know where I can get the applicable tech manual for my rig or have other ideas? Sure seems I’m missing a panel somewhere.

[Dave78Chief]

I take it you did try contacting Newmar for documentation available that is not on their website?

Quote:

I also turned off the circuit breaker for the inverter in the back bedroom.I also turned off the circuit breaker for the inverter in the back bedroom.

Don't forget that todays 12VAC radios, TV's, Microwaves, clocks, etc. typically have memory setting power drains on all the time. Could be you have something plugged in to the inverter pulling down the battery over time.

Having a 78 Winnebago I can well appreciate the lack of documentation syndrom. Mine is a lot less complex but trying to figure out where wires go is still a challenge at times.

You will most likely have to connect a 12VDC test light in series to the battery B- lead and then disconnect leads at the Battery isolator one by one to find the culprit. If there is current flowing the light will light. When the offending lead is removed, the light will go out.

Dave