power seats

[babybeaver]

Lets start from the beginning. Bought coach in jun. 2000 Beaver patriot, cat diesal and all that. When checking coach out prior to purchase everything checked out. Power seats went back and forth and so on, all ok. Now, since I bought it power seats have not been working. First thing i want to check is fuse. Where is fuse?? never could find one however elect storage bay adjacent to drivers side show a circuit breaker # 64 controlling seats. ok, don't want to act stupid but is CB same as fuse? anyway, was told that CB #64 was bad its 25amp so I hightail it down to autozone to get a replacement. They do not have a 25amp so I get 30amp, was told would work. Come back and install. CB clicks on and off intermittently. When on it gets red hot. So, I know this is not good and install old 25amp I previously took off. It didn't click on and off, must be bad. So, here I am. Obviously I know enough to know that I have a short somewhere causing my 25amp CB to go bad right? now, I look under seat with flashlight for any obvious signs of damage to any wires or loose connections, couldn't find anything. Problem is there are many wires under there and access is limited, guess thats typical with a motorcoach. Thought maybe a wire wound up on tract and got pinched but doesn't seem to be the case. Did notice some wires with black elect tape wrapped up, guess i will unwrap and see whats under there?? I was playing with controls awhile back and did get seat to move briefly and have had no luck since then. This is driving me crazy and I can't seem to get anyone to work on it. Guess nobody wants to mess with electrical troubleshooting, to time consuming and not enough $$ to be made. So, guess its up to me. I have never used a voltmeter, I have bought one and am trying. I probably need to isolate the short using the resistance method. Problem is its just so dam hard to get to things under the seat. Need to find the short before I install another CB. Thinking back, when i was checking out coach prior to buying it was working fine. By moving seats back and forth and up and down, common sense would dictate that something was pulled loose. I know this is a long post but I sure could use some advice.

[deandec]

With the 30A Circuit breaker, do the power seat controls respond?

If so, the problem will probably lie in a short between the CB and the seat control.


Start with the wires that plug into the pedestal motor plug. (My plug and receiver is fastened to the lower chair skirt.) Unplug it and spray the terminals with some WD 40. Then plug things together to see if that made any difference re your CB tripping.

If not, then there is probably a broken wire. Without a voltmeter, you are left with wiggling each individual wire at locations along its length to hopefully identify the offending wire.

If you can see the wire colors, focus on solid white, black, or red wires since the positive wire is usually black or red, and neutral is usually white, or black when with red.

If no success, buy or borrow a Volt Meter with Ohm measurement capability. Set the meter to measure DC volts.

You will want to check the power wires for voltage arriving at the chair. Put the positive lead on the black wire and the negative lead on the white wire. Observe the voltage.

If none, the problem may be the wires between the cb and and the seat plug.

You will want to check the 12v circuit breaker for voltage leaving the circuit breaker.

If you have voltage leaving but not arriving, you will then need to use some long wire from the CB to the seat area and use the Ohm readings to determine if the positive or neutral wire has a break in it.

Turn the CB off. Set the volt meter to measure Ohms.

Fasten the long wire to one bare end of a wire leaving the circuit breaker and then touch one voltmeter lead to the other end of the cheater wire and the other voltmeter lead to the end of one of the power wires at the seat plug.

If the meter needle swings all the way across the meter, that wire is testing OK.

Now check the other power wire the same way.

If both are OK, I become useless.

[babybeaver]

thanks for your help. I have no DC at the CB as the CB is bad and when I put new CB in it clicks on and off so I don't want to install new CB until I fix short. I will try everything else. Once again thanks.

[deandec]

It does appear you have a short circuit, not a broken wire, that causes the CB to click off.

I would think the short circuit is at the CB, due to worn insulation in the power wires to the chair, at the chair side plug, or in the chair side switch.

If the chair pedestal moves briefly when the DB is reset, then the switch is likely a problem.

If the new breaker clicks off immediately after a reset, disconnect the chair side plug. Then reset the breaker.

If the breaker stays on, the problem is likely at the plug since the plug and the breaker is the only normal place the two wires are exposed without insulation.

If the breaker still clicks off due to a shorted power circuit, the problem is likely between the CB and the Chair plug.

Run some new test wires from the CB to the Chair plug. and somehow splice the chair end into the plug connections.

Try the CB and seat controls. If all works, you now know for sure that your power wires are the culprit and can take the corrective steps.

[babybeaver]

Disconnected wires from two connectors and sprayed with wd-40. No help. Do not have any power to CB, checked all CB's and have 12.8 except power seat breaker. Took old CB out figured it was probably no good. Checked voltage from red wire when CB was out still nothing. Now when I install new CB and it cycles on and off there must be power???? is it ok to use 30amp vice 25amp? I am afraid to buy another CB and put in thinking same thing will happen and I will ruin another. Thinking I must find and repair short 1st then install new CB. When I removed CB and checked voltage I should of gotten a reading right? got readings on all other terminals. So, if I have no volts going there then why do I have power when i install CB and it cycles?? I remember when I first purchased coach I checked out seats and they worked fine, since that day they have never worked again, coincidence

[deandec]

Your voltage tester should register power to the CB socket when empty if you are testing the positive and negative contact points.

Installing the 30A CB is fine. You just do not have as much circuit protection as you would with 25A.

By installing the good CB, you are allowing voltage to move beyond the CB so you can test the downstream current.

Install the new CB. Disconnect the chair side plug. Reset the new CB. Determine if CB still clicks off.

Note: on my SOB the chair controls circuit also affects other accessories. Is your CB truly dedicated only to the chair controls?

[Vegasdan]

Check for a bad ground. My ground wire looked intact but was broken somewhere below the floor of my coach. I just wired a new ground to the seat base and power seat has worked since.

[babybeaver]

ok, this thing is driving me nuts. There are two wires going from electrical compartment under coach up through floor to drivers seat, red/white. Now, there are also two wires that go further to passenger seat. Now I'm thinking, if there was a short somewhere along the line to drivers seat that would only affect the drivers seat therefore passenger seat should work right? whereever the short is it is causing both seats not to work. My question is: is there a fuse anywhere else, maybe inline fuse under coach?? but then again if there was a short anywhere causing the CB to trip that would affect power to both seats. There is a ground in the elect compartment which seems to be fine. So, the short could be anywhere either drivers seat or passengers seat. Another question, is it safe to extend the front leveler for more room to get under coach without jack stands? any thoughts about all this. I appreciate all the input i have gotten and am willing to try about anything.

[Luckiest Dre]

I have to admit that I am not familiar with your coach nor am I anything but a backyard tinkerer. Yet I always attempt to repair with the KISS method. If you do not know the correct fuse check them all quickly by using a little check light. That's the thing that looks like a ice pick with a wire and a clip on it. Put the clip on a ground and touch the pick to the side of the fuse that the exit wire is. (you can usually see a bit of bare metal at the fuses base)That will tell you if the fuse is bad. You can quickly check every fuse in the panel without removing them and replace any that don't light the light.
Also, if the seat still will work intermittently it is not a fuse. So, if you are sometimes getting a hot wire at the seat, it's not a fuse! The loose ground then makes sense. If it does have a short between a hot and the ground and there is a fuse in the line it will surely blow a fuse! I seems to me that if the CB is getting hot then there is power there and no fuse. An overloaded CB should blow the fuse unless the fuse is between the CB and the seat!
I apologise if I am sending a bad signal, like I said I am a tinkerer.

[Eric_H_E]

silly question. are there other CB like the one for the seat? if so you can pull another CB and try it in the seat socket and the cb from the seat socket on the other cb positon just to check the cb and make sure they are ok.

Do both seats not work? Depending on how it is wired, one may and one may not.

[sCarycary]

bb, You have a direct short circuit. A CB is a circuit breaker. Kind of like a fuse but resettable. I suggest you unplug the power seat motors and see if the CB trips. You don't have a blown fuse or an open wire.

[babybeaver]

Well I think I kinda got it narrowed down to either a broken or shorted wire, a fuse or a bad ground. Their is a ground for all circuits in the electrical compartment however their may be a ground under the coach somewhere to the chassis just have to find it. Now a fuse?? cannot find a fuse anywhere for these seats? their must be one right? someplace. Maybe an in line fuse under the coach someplace?? Looked everywhere not like an auto where fuses are under dash.

[deandec]

BB, its has been suggested by a couple of replies that you unplug the seat controls and switch on the new circuit breaker.

If it stays on, then somewhere beyond the CB you have a shorted wire .

Have you executed this step, yet?

If so, what was the result???

[babybeaver]

UPDATE: I found the problem. I was concentrating on the drivers seat and decided that passenger seat may be problem. With CB cycling on and off grabbed ahold of wires under passenger seat, very hot, hummmm?? peeled off plastic wire encasement and discovered white wire (ground) to be crimped and wire exposed so cut wire and put new connector on. Drivers seat now operational, however passenger seat now inop. Got half of this so now am thinking motor on passenger side not working. Next step is to put multimeter on motor to determine if it is working. Thanks for all the input I have received I will keep you advised of progress.