power to coach newbie

[MARTINOBILL1]

Hi, i have a problem with the power setup on my 1998 winnebago adventurer. I just spent 1700.00 for a starter circuit board and a voltage regulator for my onan 5000. I went to the r.v. repair shop with a pretty simple question, which was when i am plugged into my house (20 amps ) i only get lights, and fridge. I wanted to know how come my heater will not work with nothing else on. So what i wanted was i knew there was a shutoff switch on my dash as well as when i walked into the r.v. by the stairs. So if i hit the dash switch EVERYTHING in r.v. goes off. If i hit the stair switch plugged in i get lights and fridge. So i assumed the batteries were good, and being plugged into such low amps i would not get heat. Well they got the generator running great, and now i get EVERYTHING i need working to work. The problem is i do not understand this off grid workings, as if i just run off my batteries i do not get enough juice in coach to live on. Now i also have a 5000 watt inverter with nothing plugged into the 4 outlets. Do i leave the inverter on all the time when off grid to plug other things into it? I know i cannot run of generator 24/7. I am now in the process of hooking up a 50 amp plug to my outside outlet that was for my spa. ( a 240 ) will now be my 50 as is my r.v. So when i do hook up i was told EVERYTHING will work with 50 amps. So here we are, generator on all works, 50 amp plug all should work. batteries ??? i am lost on this one. How do i get my 2 batteries to run what i need. do i turn the switch on at dash? or do i turn switch on by stairs? or both on for just battery uses ? I am a newbie so be nice... lol.. i really know that this is the experts forum and i also know i should of asked before i brought to an r.v. shop as 1700.00 seemed to be a lot for what they did. Sorry so long but it is gonna snow tonight so i will run the generator all night, unless i get the 50 amp outlet in before it starts. Thank you all for being so helpful. Virgin in shitcago......

[mel s]

Originally Posted by MARTINOBILL1

Hi, i have a problem with the power setup on my 1998 winnebago adventurer. I just spent 1700.00 for a starter circuit board and a voltage regulator for my onan 5000. I went to the r.v. repair shop with a pretty simple question, which was when i am plugged into my house (20 amps ) i only get lights, and fridge. I wanted to know how come my heater will not work with nothing else on. So what i wanted was i knew there was a shutoff switch on my dash as well as when i walked into the r.v. by the stairs. So if i hit the dash switch EVERYTHING in r.v. goes off. If i hit the stair switch plugged in i get lights and fridge. So i assumed the batteries were good, and being plugged into such low amps i would not get heat. Well they got the generator running great, and now i get EVERYTHING i need working to work. The problem is i do not understand this off grid workings, as if i just run off my batteries i do not get enough juice in coach to live on. Now i also have a 5000 watt inverter with nothing plugged into the 4 outlets. Do i leave the inverter on all the time when off grid to plug other things into it? I know i cannot run of generator 24/7. I am now in the process of hooking up a 50 amp plug to my outside outlet that was for my spa. ( a 240 ) will now be my 50 as is my r.v. So when i do hook up i was told EVERYTHING will work with 50 amps. So here we are, generator on all works, 50 amp plug all should work. batteries ??? i am lost on this one. How do i get my 2 batteries to run what i need. do i turn the switch on at dash? or do i turn switch on by stairs? or both on for just battery uses ? I am a newbie so be nice... lol.. i really know that this is the experts forum and i also know i should of asked before i brought to an r.v. shop as 1700.00 seemed to be a lot for what they did. Sorry so long but it is gonna snow tonight so i will run the generator all night, unless i get the 50 amp outlet in before it starts. Thank you all for being so helpful. Virgin in shitcago......

I suggest you turn both switches ON and see if you get the desired result.
Mel
'96 Safari

[MARTINOBILL1]

Well sure enough, i plugged in my r.v. and the batteries drained. i had 22 house lights on and the heater. Sometime in the night they drained. i called another R.V. shop explained what work i had done, and what i was doing at that moment. Thinking i had it pluged in i was done and would be well, WRONG.... I awoke ( thank the lord, in my house ) to find nothing running and no batteries to fire up generator. The guy and i went through it step by step, and he came up with the conclusion that my converter is bad, thus not giving out 110. well it was a Saturday afternoon that i started to work on the R.V. and the fastest i can get one is Tuesday morning. 12 inches of snow out there so i am in no hurry now, i got the generator fired up and running. Thank you Mel for your advise i really appreciate it and love this forum.Tune in Wednesday, same time, same station...

[mel s]

Originally Posted by MARTINOBILL1

Well sure enough, i plugged in my r.v. and the batteries drained. i had 22 house lights on and the heater. Sometime in the night they drained. i called another R.V. shop explained what work i had done, and what i was doing at that moment. Thinking i had it pluged in i was done and would be well, WRONG.... I awoke ( thank the lord, in my house ) to find nothing running and no batteries to fire up generator. The guy and i went through it step by step, and he came up with the conclusion that my converter is bad, thus not giving out 110. well it was a Saturday afternoon that i started to work on the R.V. and the fastest i can get one is Tuesday morning. 12 inches of snow out there so i am in no hurry now, i got the generator fired up and running. Thank you Mel for your advise i really appreciate it and love this forum.Tune in Wednesday, same time, same station...

MARTINOBILL1
I don't understand what you mean by that?
A converter does "not give out 110V"...it "converts" 120VAC to 12VDC.

BTW on so some coaches, (but not all coaches), the "converter" is a "combination converter/charger" which converts 120VAC to 12VDC and also charges the house batteries...(but only if/when you are connected to shore power or run the genset).
However on some coaches the converter/charger charges both the house and the chassis batteries...(depending on how the coach is wired).

Good luck on Tuesday.

Mel
'96 Safari

[wa8yxm]

You say you get lights and fridge.. This indicates the converter is converting when you try for furnace do the lights dim/go out?

If the house batteries (only batteries on a trailer) are low, Some things, PRIMARLLY the furnace, may refuse to work.

[MARTINOBILL1]

Originally Posted by mel s

MARTINOBILL1
I don't understand what you mean by that?
A converter does "not give out 110V"...it "converts" 120VAC to 12VDC.

BTW on so some coaches, (but not all coaches), the "converter" is a "combination converter/charger" which converts 120VAC to 12VDC and also charges the house batteries...(but only if/when you are connected to shore power or run the genset).
However on some coaches the converter/charger charges both the house and the chassis batteries...(depending on how the coach is wired).

Good luck on Tuesday.

Mel
'96 Safari

I always had the impression that the converter takes from the batteries and converts it to 110. so your microwave, and furnace blower motor, and maybe your electric water heater, tv's, all run off 110. The rest run off 12? I may be wrong but the matter of not getting enough power plugged into a 50 amp outlet is strange and sounds like a converter problem. Especially when my batteries are draining while being plugged in. i am not the electrician Mel but now i am more confused as to what the converters putting out...lol

[MARTINOBILL1]

Originally Posted by wa8yxm

You say you get lights and fridge.. This indicates the converter is converting when you try for furnace do the lights dim/go out?

If the house batteries (only batteries on a trailer) are low, Some things, PRIMARLLY the furnace, may refuse to work.

wa8yxm, when i first plugged in i was getting heater motor but during the night it went out i imagine because the batteries were draining. the lights and fridge run off 12 right? if yes than i needed 120 for heater motor. but to add it all up if i was plugged in i should get tv's, fridge, microwave ( without using it ) and heater from water and furnace right? you people are great i am learning a lot from this mess...lol thank you all and please keep going as there is a ton more questions this newbie has....

[MARTINOBILL1]

Well i got real aggravated over the weekend running in and out with the generator to keep my pipes from freezing. She runs great with the generator on. But i see where you people are coming from with the batteries and the converter, so after a little investigating i am gonna buy the converter anyways, as mine is 1998 original. But i am leaning that way more to the point of my generator putting out 120, then my 50 amp outlet should put that and more out. Thus i believe i am not converting my power from house outlet to 120. Plus the fan on the back of it never goes off...lol..i will get back to you tomorrow Tuesday the 24th and fill you all in. Thank you all for teaching this newbie...what a great forum i found, with great people and new friends..

[nothermark]

Let's sort out some basic issues. Converters change 120 VAC to nominal 12 VDC to charge the batteries and run the DC loads when on shore power or generator. Batteries are charged by the same converter because there is no rational way to separate them for charging when running on shore power or the generator.

There are two ways to connect the converter. If connected directly to the battery bank the the storage switch turns 12 VDC power on and off even when the coach is plugged in. If connected to the power panel side of the disconnect relay (solenoid) the batteries do not get charged if the switch is set wrong but the house runs. The easiest way to check the setting is to un plug the unit, turn on a light and set the storage switch so the light comes on. Then it is running on battery and plugging in should increase the voltage at the battery and probably make the lights a bit brighter. You can also verify that by checking the battery voltage.

An *inverter* changes DC to AC. In the case of most MH's it makes 12 VDC into 120 VAC. Because the power has to be the same minus some conversion loss 1 Amp @120 VAC takes ~10 Amps @ 12 VDC. If you keep everything in watts it might be simpler for you. The net result is a lot of current at 12 VDC. A 5000 watt inverter would draw 5000/12=416 Amps. You had better have some really big batteries to feed that monster. ;-)

Many modern systems use a combined INverter/CONverter so a lot of folks only say INverter when they mean the combined unit. The combination also makes advice over whether to turn it on or off tricky. Some automatically switch themselves between inverter and converter so turning them off will stop charging the batteries. Others have a separate AC control that can be turned off. When running on battery and not needing AC turning off the Inverter saves energy as it takes power just to sit there and monitor the AC lines to see if they want power.

The generator supplies AC just like the power line through the transfer switch. As far as the rest of the coach knows it gets power from the transfer switch no matter where that gets power from. If you have a big inverter it also has another transfer switch inside it that switches between power from the generator/line power and the inverter output.

There are several variations in how things are connected so you need to find out how your coach is built to manage the systems and know how to troubleshoot it when something does not work. In those cases your best friend might be a reasonable voltmeter. The chinese freebie to $5 one's will work. The more expensive one's might be better if you know what you are doing. Get one and learn how to use it.

As far as the 240/120 VAC line issue the motor home is not converting anything. Standard single phase AC house wiring is 120/240 VAC from a center tapped transformer with the center tap grounded. The center tap is referred to as the neutral. You house and motor home are wired to put loads between the neutral ano one or the other leg of the transformer thus getting 120 VAC. For high power like hot tubs they connect the heater between the two hot lines thus getting 240 VAC across the heater coils. To plug in your motor home the electrician is adding a 4 hole connector and should have 4 wires connected to it. Each hot line, the neutral and a safety ground. That way the motor home splits connections between the neutral and a hot leg to get 120 VAC just like the house.

FWIW I have seen installations of hot tubs with no neutral. Two hots and a safety ground is all many take. Make sure your electrician adds a neutral of there is not one to your tub.

Good luck, have fun.

[mel s]

Originally Posted by MARTINOBILL1

I always had the impression that the converter takes from the batteries and converts it to 110. so your microwave, and furnace blower motor, and maybe your electric water heater, tv's, all run off 110. The rest run off 12? I may be wrong but the matter of not getting enough power plugged into a 50 amp outlet is strange and sounds like a converter problem. Especially when my batteries are draining while being plugged in. i am not the electrician Mel but now i am more confused as to what the converters putting out...lol

MARTINOBILL1
The inverter converts battery 12VDC power to 120VAC power....the converter puts out 12VDC which it makes using 120VAC house or genset power...while the battery charger charges the batteries when it's connected to shore or genset power.

However on many coaches the inverter... the converter... and the battery charger are all housed in one single combination unit/component.

Mel
'96 Safari

[MARTINOBILL1]

Hi guys, thank you so much for your help...I talked to an R.V. mechanic who said almost the same as you did. He has my R.V. now and while we were talking i looked and described to him what i was doing. First was being plugged into my house (nothermark) i did hook my hot tub with 2 hots a neutral and a ground...Thank you for noticing that. But while plugged in she did the same as i said before, lights,fridge, not much more. so i unplugged her and went to the transfer switch....Well to my horror i have a 50 amp plug with a 30 transfer box...2 wires looked like they almost started on fire,,, But nothing at all coming out of the box,,no juice at all...I thank the Lord for that box stopping my coach wires from burning up, as well as me unplugging it when i felt something was wrong. He has the R.V. at his shop now and said we were looking at around 430.00 for everything. labor,box, and follow the trail of juice to double check it all to make sure the guy i bought it from did not hook anything else up wrong. I kind of knew something was up when he showed me the 5000 watt INVERTER. right above the transfer box..But all in all, i still made out on this deal. I have 2 brand new tv's, a new dash stereo, and total cost of rig was 12,000 So i will fill you in on what i hope to be the FINAL results by Friday...Thank You all for the help, stick around it really is not over yet...lol..next is my water heater is not right....

[mel s]

Originally Posted by MARTINOBILL1

Hi guys, thank you so much for your help...I talked to an R.V. mechanic who said almost the same as you did. He has my R.V. now and while we were talking i looked and described to him what i was doing. First was being plugged into my house (nothermark) i did hook my hot tub with 2 hots a neutral and a ground...Thank you for noticing that. But while plugged in she did the same as i said before, lights,fridge, not much more. so i unplugged her and went to the transfer switch....Well to my horror i have a 50 amp plug with a 30 transfer box...2 wires looked like they almost started on fire,,, But nothing at all coming out of the box,,no juice at all...I thank the Lord for that box stopping my coach wires from burning up, as well as me unplugging it when i felt something was wrong. He has the R.V. at his shop now and said we were looking at around 430.00 for everything. labor,box, and follow the trail of juice to double check it all to make sure the guy i bought it from did not hook anything else up wrong. I kind of knew something was up when he showed me the 5000 watt INVERTER. right above the transfer box..But all in all, i still made out on this deal. I have 2 brand new tv's, a new dash stereo, and total cost of rig was 12,000 So i will fill you in on what i hope to be the FINAL results by Friday...Thank You all for the help, stick around it really is not over yet...lol..next is my water heater is not right....

MARTINOBILL1
Glad someone is fixing your power problem.
If/when you ask about your water heater please include the make and model number of your water heater.
Mel
'96 Safari