Powering a Residential Refrigerator

[gmarsha2]

We completed our switch last spring and the only regret was that it had not been done sooner. We changed from a Norcold 1200 to a residential GE 15.5 cubic foot traditional top freezer with no water connections. Reason for no water was due to winterizing and the fact that we do not use camp ground water. Our door opening is the same as yours and we had no issues with the removal or the installation. I did remove the screen door to give me the extra opening space. We have a 2004 Dutchstar with an inverter. I had to enlarge the opening in the cabinet space, as the refrigerator was about 1 inch higher. As for the electrical I learned from this site to switch the micro wiring from the inverter panel with the refrigerator connection on the main panel. By doing this we can ran the refrigerator on the inverter, when we were not hooked up to the grid. The extra refrigerator space and the superior temperature control is a bonus. There was some trim work to complete after the installation, however when completed it looks like it is original. Go for it, you will be happy that you did.

[rvpusher]

Originally Posted by Brockx

Sorry I did not see this until this morning, glad you worked it out. I have not started my removal. My sons will be here for early Christmas in early Dec. and we will do the swap then. I have assumed removing the doors will give me enough room to get it out, will remove the rear cooling apparatus if needed. My door opening is 24.300 (24 5/16). Would appreciate anything you can share on your removal.

Brock

No problem. Just got our new Frigidaire 12cf delivered from Home Depot this morning. My door is 24.25 wide so we needed a frig that was no wider (or deeper) than 24". We just needed one dimension to be 24". The Frigidaire model FFTR1222QB is 24" wide so it fit through the door with a hair to spare. Although it's smaller than our 12cf Norcold, it looks like it will hold just as much stuff. Definitely deeper than the Norcold. We'll just have to do some nice trim work around the sides because it is considerably narrower than the Norcold.

The only issue we ran into when removing the old Norcold was even though the specs say its 24", it could not go out the door with the doors and coils on. Removing the doors almost gave us enough room (24") but since it was just the two of us manhandling this monster, we didn't want to get it stuck going out the door. Removing the coils confused us because they run through some heavy hard silver-backed insulation that we thought was the back of the refrigerator. After we finally realized (with help from other iRV2 posters) that we need to cut off the insulation that the coils ran through and then it all removed in one piece. There also was some additional metal, shielding and fans that were added on, presumably for the recalls, that had to be removed. Definitely made it easier getting out of the door.

Since Home Depot was taking away our old Norcold, we kept the shelves from the refrigerator. We are going to cut them down and use them as an additional shelf for in the freezer and the refrigerator. This should give us plenty of space for all our stuff with these additional shelves.

Now we are working on how to secure the frig since this model is so much narrower. Oh well, at least it's almost all done.

[Brockx]

RVPUSHER

Good Job, I was hoping to not remove the rear cooling unit, from your experience looks like I may need to remove doors and rear plumbing also.

The Norcold is advertised as a 12 cuft but is actually less than 12, plus you can load your new one fuller than the "NOCOLD".

[CWHTRAINS]

If you are replacing your Norcold unit with a residential refrigerator, you might also want to consider keeping the four white bins that make up the drawers in the Norcold 1200 series. They have worked great for us in our new Samsung 197, keeping items from flopping around or spilling while traveling. They are just about as deep as are the shelves are in the Samsung.

[Brockx]

Received my Refer from Home Depot on the 17th. I had also purchased and received my Xantrex switching relay. Set the Refer up in the garage, installed the ice maker, wired the Xantrex with the appropriate connectors.

I rigged a water connection for the ice maker, and left it run for 2 days to be sure all was good. All good, filled the ice bucket in first 16 hours.

I have an 800W inverter I use in the motorhome for crockpot cooking in the luggage bay when traveling. Thinking 800w was a little low I tried I on the refer and it worked fine. I interrupted the house 110v a few times and the Xantrex relay did it's job. The inverter is just a std. not a PSW and 10 years old, previously used it to charge my Bass Boat batteries on the trip home. Still plan on buying a 1500W or 2000W to replace the 800W, don't think I'll worry about the PSW.

[RolandRock]

Originally Posted by Brockx

I have an 800W inverter I use in the motorhome for crockpot cooking in the luggage bay when traveling. Thinking 800w was a little low I tried I on the refer and it worked fine. I interrupted the house 110v a few times and the Xantrex relay did it's job. The inverter is just a std. not a PSW and 10 years old, previously used it to charge my Bass Boat batteries on the trip home. Still plan on buying a 1500W or 2000W to replace the 800W, don't think I'll worry about the PSW.

Not going with a pure sine wave with an inductive motor load is a big mistake ! The cooling unit and motors and electronic controls can be adversely affected by modified sine wave. Depending on the actual shape of the MSW subharmonics can cause overheating of components and motors will run 20%-30% less efficiently as with PSW.

[Brockx]

My sons were here for early Holidays and we removed the old and replaced with the new !

Removed the doors pulled the Norcold from it's alcove and discovered it was about 1/2 inch too deep to go through the door. I had two alternatives, remove the MH door by removing the hinge pins or take the Norcold apart. Problem was my power awning front support legs keep the door from opening flat enough forward to utilize the full door frame opening. So the Norcold "took the bullet".

Installing the Whirlpool was not difficult just time consuming. It was a nice fit. I moved it to the front wall in the alcove leaving room to devise a slide out pantry to the aft side or a broom / utility closet.

So far as securing the unit I added a 3/4 inch plywood floor and drilled halfway through with a Forstner bit to set the front adjuster legs into. We then cut a 2 inch aluminum angle bar to length mounted it to the top of the fridge using the bolts and mount holes for the door mounts on the top (both sides). We then added angle brackets to the 2 inch bar and the alcove side walls, very secure.

Will show pictures soon, need to insulate/seal the top, bottom, and rear side to stop any air movement.

[jleamo1]

Originally Posted by Brockx

My sons were here for early Holidays and we removed the old and replaced with the new !

Removed the doors pulled the Norcold from it's alcove and discovered it was about 1/2 inch too deep to go through the door. I had two alternatives, remove the MH door by removing the hinge pins or take the Norcold apart. Problem was my power awning front support legs keep the door from opening flat enough forward to utilize the full door frame opening. So the Norcold "took the bullet".

Installing the Whirlpool was not difficult just time consuming. It was a nice fit. I moved it to the front wall in the alcove leaving room to devise a slide out pantry to the aft side or a broom / utility closet.

So far as securing the unit I added a 3/4 inch plywood floor and drilled halfway through with a Forstner bit to set the front adjuster legs into. We then cut a 2 inch aluminum angle bar to length mounted it to the top of the fridge using the bolts and mount holes for the door mounts on the top (both sides). We then added angle brackets to the 2 inch bar and the alcove side walls, very secure.

Will show pictures soon, need to insulate/seal the top, bottom, and rear side to stop any air movement.

Nice work! We also replaced ours with a residential in 2014, wife asked me after why we didn't do it sooner . Our NOCOLD caught fire, we caught it in time with just some singed hair on my arm, no coach damage.
I removed one side window and passed it through, installing the GE 15.5cuft was simple. Ours runs on the stock inverter and batteries, I just plugged it into the existing outlet that happened to be on the inverter, shore power and generator circuits. I sealed off the wall vent and roof vents, and left the bottom of the fridge open for air circulation into the interior of the coach. I made a lock (in the photo) to keep the doors closed while in travel.

[Crossingover]

Originally Posted by RolandRock

Not going with a pure sine wave with an inductive motor load is a big mistake ! The cooling unit and motors and electronic controls can be adversely affected by modified sine wave. Depending on the actual shape of the MSW subharmonics can cause overheating of components and motors will run 20%-30% less efficiently as with PSW.

So what happens when I supply 110V to my fridge from my generator, which AFAIK is not an inverter generator? I have the standard Onan 5500 genset (alternator). Help educate me.

[twinboat]

A sine wave is like a smooth wave in the ocean.

Rotating generators create sine wave power, some cleaner then others. That's what's in Hover Dam.

Modified square wave inverters create a square wave from DC and then put steps in it, to mimic a sine wave.

[harleyjt]

Originally Posted by Crossingover

So what happens when I supply 110V to my fridge from my generator, which AFAIK is not an inverter generator? I have the standard Onan 5500 genset (alternator). Help educate me.

The generator produces 120v with a pure sine wave. Its just as good as shore power.
jt

[Crossingover]

Originally Posted by twinboat

Rotating generators create sine wave power, some cleaner then others. That's what's in Hover Dam.

Modified square wave inverters create a square wave from DC and then put steps in it, to mimic a sine wave.

Ok. So if you want the cleanest genset power, you go with an inverter 'modified square wave' genset? I have an inverter genset (Honda 7KW) as a backup power supply to the transfer switch at my home and paid more for that over just a basic alternator genset you can buy available everywhere. Perhaps I've been told the wrong things about inverter gensets, but they are available and cost significantly more to buy.

[pasdad1]

Originally Posted by Crossingover

Ok. So if you want the cleanest genset power, you go with an inverter 'modified square wave' genset? I have an inverter genset (Honda 7KW) as a backup power supply to the transfer switch at my home and paid more for that over just a basic alternator genset you can buy available everywhere. Perhaps I've been told the wrong things about inverter gensets, but they are available and cost significantly more to buy.

All of the inverter generators I have heard about (especially Honda) use pure sine wave inverters.....producing cleaner power than most public utilities.

Modified wave inverters are inferior and are generally only recommended when inexpensive cost is the only concern. There are plenty of good pure sine wave inverters available for your coach that are powered by batteries as well.

[RolandRock]

Originally Posted by Crossingover

So what happens when I supply 110V to my fridge from my generator, which AFAIK is not an inverter generator? I have the standard Onan 5500 genset (alternator). Help educate me.

An Onan gen set is a pure sine wave output. It uses an alternator to produce alternating current mechanically from the windings or the alternator. The frequency or Hertz can vary according to the RPM of the engine turning the generator. That is why the engine is designed to stay at a constant RPM under different loads.

Most appliances will covert the AC into filtered DC to power the electronics. As long as the Hertz stay within 10% of 60Hz there should be no difference in performance. An ac power tool or appliance motor will change RPM slightly according to Hertz, but again within 10% should be no issue.