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Old 02-07-2014, 05:54 PM   #15
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I was just thinking that if the case of the inverter is grounded to a "common ground" and the generator starter and frame are attached to that "common ground", you need to attach to a battery, within your array, that has 12V on the positive anode with reference to that common ground. Attaching across a battery that is wired into the array with 12V on the negative and 24v on the positive, would cause a spark shower to say the least.

Folks will continue to come out of the woodwork advising against tapping off the necessary 12V from your 24V bank to occasionally start your generator. When they offer to use their money to purchase and install the additional battery, and necessary 12V converter/charger, take them up on the deal.
I really wish I knew about battery bank systems, I would have had so many of my questions answered. I have no idea how the RV company plans on wiring the inverter. I'll also talk to them and see what they think.
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Old 02-07-2014, 07:07 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Jasper7821 View Post
I really wish I knew about battery bank systems, I would have had so many of my questions answered. I have no idea how the RV company plans on wiring the inverter. I'll also talk to them and see what they think.
I would be happy to work up a couple of concept diagrams that might be useful in communicating to the "RV company" just what you want in performance and flexibility. They should be able to wire the system in a fashion that lets you operate the system most efficiently from battery, generator or shore power.

When, and where, you have shore power you should be able to operate your business and charge the batteries at the same time. Likewise, when/if the batteries get low when operating off grid, you should be able to start the generator and continue operation while recharging the batteries.

The components that you have described so far are designed with that capability if installed correctly.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:27 PM   #17
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Taping center between two 12 volt batteries is not good idea.

You consume power from bottom battery through the top battery causing same as high charging rates during that time plus it causes bottom battery to require more charge current to recharge that goes through the top battery tgat does no need charging causing damage.

Local crop duster folks would tap there to give us 12 vdc for the two way radios they would insist we install (under direction from their (a&p).

Batteries always bit dust early.

Once dc to dc converters came out at reasonable price we used the 24 to 12 volt devices and everyone happy.

Watts are watts and a battery only stores so many.

Two in series is same as two in parallel except for smaller conductor size and less work for inverter.

24 volt inverter would work better than 12 but price may be more due to less common.

Overall due to common materials 12 volt may be best overall system for the investment.

48 volt inverters would be telco grade stuff which are somewhat less common but more expensive.
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:27 PM   #18
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I would be happy to work up a couple of concept diagrams that might be useful in communicating to the "RV company" just what you want in performance and flexibility. They should be able to wire the system in a fashion that lets you operate the system most efficiently from battery, generator or shore power.

When, and where, you have shore power you should be able to operate your business and charge the batteries at the same time. Likewise, when/if the batteries get low when operating off grid, you should be able to start the generator and continue operation while recharging the batteries.

The components that you have described so far are designed with that capability if installed correctly.
That would be really great, I'm just trying to buy everything I need now so when my trailer gets here from Indiana in the next week or two I can take it to the RV shop and they'll have everything they need and I won't have any delays. I'm supposed to be opening business the beginning of march.
I had my battery wiring drawing fr 12v, but I bought 12v batteries so that drawing doesn't work anymore.
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Old 02-07-2014, 11:28 PM   #19
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That would be really great, I'm just trying to buy everything I need now so when my trailer gets here from Indiana in the next week or two I can take it to the RV shop and they'll have everything they need and I won't have any delays. I'm supposed to be opening business the beginning of march.
I had my battery wiring drawing for 12v, but I bought 12v batteries so that drawing doesn't work anymore.
That's not really true. You could still purchase a 12V inverter and use the batteries that you have in a purely parallel configuration. In fact, that's what I would really recommend. The batteries and the inverter are going to be very close together (or should be) so the difference in cost of larger wire is NOT a big deal. The functional diagram should be pretty much the same.

Considering your need for 12V power for your tongue jack and generator starter, I would construct a complete 12V system, but we've been over that ground already.

I'll try to present a couple of alternatives.
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:14 AM   #20
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Just like a motor home has two battery systems, chassis and house, the concession trailer could have 2 systems. 24 v for the appliances and things in the working area, and a 12 v system for the generator, jack, perhaps some lights. The 12 v battery could be maintained by a 120 v battery charger connected to the generator.
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:25 AM   #21
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The OP doesn't touch on how the 24VDC battery bank will be charged...did he?
The typical RV generator produces 120VAC
The typical RV Converter/Charger takes 120VAC and makes 12VDC.

The inverter mentioned is the only 24VDC unit I read sbout...so where does the 24VDC come from to charge the full battery bank?

Yes, there are 24VDC outputs on some generators and Yes, there are 24VDC chargers...so one of these would need to be acquired to make the change to 24VDC.

There's lots of 24VDC equipment in military surplus, so it us doable, but more complex than just adding extra batteries and the inverter.

Best luck.
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Old 02-08-2014, 02:16 AM   #22
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Would something like this work as a step down converter.
Amazon.com: Pyle PSWNV480 24V DC to 12V DC Power Step Down 480 Watt Converter with PMW Technology: Electronics

The generator manual says the battery needs to be at least 450cca, I don't know what that equals in amps but this converter will handle 20amps.
If this would work I wouldn't have to worry about buying and charging a separate 12v battery.
If this us the best way, where would this tap into in the system.
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Old 02-08-2014, 02:37 AM   #23
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Would something like this work as a step down converter.
Amazon.com: Pyle PSWNV480 24V DC to 12V DC Power Step Down 480 Watt Converter with PMW Technology: Electronics

The generator manual says the battery needs to be at least 450cca, I don't know what that equals in amps but this converter will handle 20amps.
If this would work I wouldn't have to worry about buying and charging a separate 12v battery.
If this us the best way, where would this tap into in the system.
Yes! A step down transformer is an elegant and safe solution! See my initial posts! Just connect to the 24 volt battery bank. Might be a little more than $30 for one supplying sufficient current for the gen starter and jack motor.
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Old 02-08-2014, 02:43 AM   #24
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The OP doesn't touch on how the 24VDC battery bank will be charged...did he?
The typical RV generator produces 120VAC
The typical RV Converter/Charger takes 120VAC and makes 12VDC.

The inverter mentioned is the only 24VDC unit I read sbout...so where does the 24VDC come from to charge the full battery.
Yes! 120VAC shore power and generator through a 24VDC inverter charger.
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Old 02-08-2014, 11:23 AM   #25
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Your 12 volt use would be rare, and intermittent, so the tapping into the 12 volt point would have no long term negative results, but a common ground (frame grounded) is not a good idea, as opposed to direct hookup from both positive, and negative posts.

If you are going to be using some 12 volt lites, then that circuit is best served from a DC to DC converter and a 10 amp or so is cheap, and reliable.

If, for some reason you had a high draw on the 12 volt side, then an equalizer would be in order, I use a Vanner Equalizer myself, and yes I run 24 volt, and have been for over ten years.

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Old 02-08-2014, 11:25 AM   #26
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Yes! 120VAC shore power and generator through a 24VDC inverter charger.
Yes, a 24VDC inverter/charger would work...but just to be clear for the OP (since I did not read the OP ever mention an inverter/charger), there is a BIG difference between an inverter/charger and a simple inverter.

If the OP installs a 24VDC inverter/charger, the the original 12VDC charger/converter should be removed so the 12VDC part of the battery bank are not subjected to a double charge environment. This is not a problem, but is just an extra step in the process/project.

Best luck
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:17 PM   #27
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Yes, a 24VDC inverter/charger would work...but just to be clear for the OP (since I did not read the OP ever mention an inverter/charger), there is a BIG difference between an inverter/charger and a simple inverter.If the OP installs a 24VDC inverter/charger, the the original 12VDC charger/converter should be removed so the 12VDC part of the battery bank are not subjected to a double charge environment. This is not a problem, but is just an extra step in the process/project.
Best luck
The OP has multiple threads on the subject of building his concession trailer. You obviously are not aware of previous discussions and decisions he has made.

This is a NEW BUILD, not a retrofit of an RV.
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:21 PM   #28
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Yes, a 24VDC inverter/charger would work...but just to be clear for the OP (since I did not read the OP ever mention an inverter/charger), there is a BIG difference between an inverter/charger and a simple inverter.

If the OP installs a 24VDC inverter/charger, the the original 12VDC charger/converter should be removed so the 12VDC part of the battery bank are not subjected to a double charge environment. This is not a problem, but is just an extra step in the process/project.

Best luck
Thanks, Sorry I didn't explain myself better. This is for a concession trailer being built. There is no charger/converter/inverter system in it yet.
The inverter I think I'm purchasing is this which is a 24v inverter/charger/transfer switch.
4000 Watt 24 volt Low Frequency Inverter Charger

I like the idea of just tapping the positive and negative lead of the generator and electric jack into one of the batteries IF it doesn't cause any damage to the battery of battery bank. i wouldn't have to worry about a separate battery and charger or a 24v to 12v converter.
The only thing currently in the trailer from the factory is two 12v dome lights which I don't plan on using anyways.

And from what I gather, the Onan 5500 Marquis Gold LP generator (5.5HGJAB-1270D) does not charge the starter battery.
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