Residential Frig vs. dual fuel

[chofujohn]

Hi Guys,

First, let me thank all the regulars on this forum who are so committed to helping others. When I've got a problem this is the first place I look for a solution. You've never failed me. Thanks. ()

I've been full-timing for 10 months and right before launching I replaced my Dometic DM 2852 with a residential apartment sized Kenmore (by Samsung). I thought I was being smart by getting rid of my dual fuel frig for an all electric. Big mistake!

I've been hitting Western National Parks late in the season and I've been at high altitudes with low overnight temps in the teens and highs in the 50's. I was in Florida in Hobe Sound for 5 months and the frig would maintain a constant 42 set to high. The installation instructions for this residential unit said to maintain a 2" side wall gap minimum. I have what could be termed a rather flush fit with very little air gap. I didn't really think it would matter all that much, so I pressed on with the installation. I was satisfied until I ventured to higher altitudes and lower outside ambient temps. When the ambient went to 14 degrees overnight the frig temp rose to 52 degrees. I smelled the mayo and I have my doubts. The ice never melted, so go figure. Since I want to do a lot more dry camping, especially in the desert this winter I want reliable refrigeration that will maintain good and safe temps. The government says that any food left in a frig over 40 degrees for more than 30 minutes should be viewed with suspicion. That means I should have already died of ptomaine poisoning or salmonella.

No amount of experimenting with warming the backside of the frig has done any good. On the coldest nights I put a ceramic heater behind the frig, which also did no good. I've tried insulating the outside door with fiberglass bat and I've hung a drop light there with a 75 watt bulb. No good. I'm done, so now it's just a matter of which way to go now.

The space I've got is basically made for the Dometic 2852/2862 or the equivalent in Norcold N841. Both are 2 way (not 3) and I can go with either in the allotted space given the dimensions are the same. I'll make up my own mind, but which way would you guys go if you were me; Dometic or Norcold. I'm going to be in extreme temps as I continue to full-time around the country in all seasons. I'll be in the mountains one month and the desert the next. I'll be in high humidity and low. I'm not asking for the moon. I just want reliable refrigeration that will maintain 40 or below in all conditions. Does it exist in retail form in the real world? Or, do I have to buy something from Norcold or Dometic and then have it modified with the Amish plumbing to increase efficiency? I know that ammonia isn't the most efficient coolant on the planet, but I don't believe there are any options for RV refrigeration. I just read that ammonia is only good to 40 degrees ambient. It's like my Penguin heat pumps that quit at 40. Thank goodness for my furnace, which, incidentally is below the frig. I've got a deep freeze/frig installed in the basement on a slide, which is 12v/120v and it has not missed a beat. That's where I keep my Sams Club steaks and some fish I caught while in Florida. So, I'm not hurting for freezer space. It's just that damn frig that's causing me headaches.

Thanks,

John

P.S. Lovin' the full-time lifestyle. There is nothing I'd rather be doing in my life right now. I've totally adjusted to living in my DSDP and enjoy it more than any other house I've ever lived in. The cool thing is the scenery keeps changing in my windshield. I'm basically on full-time vacation and always looking for new places to visit. If you'd like to read my blog and see my pics of Grand Teton National Park and other parts I've visited to this point traveling around the country the address is as follows: Road Hog Blog. If you've got a blog of your own full-timing travels let me know. I love this stuff. Ours is a truly amazing country and the people are the BEST!!

[Dr4Film]

Why did you remove the Dometic fridge in the first place?

The POS fire trap unit is the NotSoCold Norcold 12XX units which were built with defective cooling units and Norcold continues to build them the same way.

That doesn't mean that Dometic has gotten by without problems or recalls however they are way better than Norcold.

Have you verified that your installation is specifically the main cause for the deficiency in your residential unit running correctly? Or it may be another reason and not the 2 inch clearance as you have stated.

First off, if you have to set the fridge on the highest setting just to get the temp inside to 42F under normal conditions, that would set an alarm off in my head that something is not right with the fridge to begin with. You should have plenty of flexibility both up and down with the controls.

If it were me, I would have the unit looked at because it sounds like it is defective.

I have a residential, Samsung RF197, and when I was in Alaska this past summer I had the setting at 40F. As I drove south this fall, I had to adjust the setting to 38F because the overall temps were getting hotter both outside and inside the coach.

I threw a lot of food away when I had my NotSoCold Norcold and that was only one of many problems it caused. I will never go back to any RV type fridge. The Samsung is here to stay.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

[clyon51]

I also believe something is wrong with your present frig. I would certainly have it checked before making any decisions.

Definately a Dometic! My 14 yo Dometic keeps frig at 34 and freezer at zero, and that's on the '2' setting.

[jspande]

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your post, but it sounds like you're leaving the outside venting for the original absorption refer with a residential refer installation?

If so, I'd suggest you rethink that. A big advantage of compressor refers over absorption ones is they don't need (nor want) exposure to the outside (and it's wide variance of temps). Residential refers are not intended for outside use.

I think you should block off the outside vents (staple gun and Reflectix insulation work nice). Then make sure you have enough venting of the area back of the refer to the RV's interior. You're refer should much prefer running "inside" (at indoor temps).

[chofujohn]

You wrote: Why did you remove the Dometic fridge in the first place?

Hi Richard,

I lost a couple of loads of groceries (lots of steaks) in my original 9 year old Dometic. Truth be known it probably could have been refurbished for not much $$ or even modified with the Amish conversion, but I was twice burned at that point and got in a hurry to leave Arkansas. I was told I had to keep the coach level within plus/minus 2 degrees or the flame would not stay burning as a safety precaution, but even then it failed. If it means I've got to do a better job of leveling then I will do that, but I'm also expecting the Dometics are updated today from what they were back in '02. If I have to level then I'm not shy and I'll drop them provided I don't cause any surface damage to the parking lot or rest stop. On the negative side of the coin I remember reading here a while ago about the inefficiency of ammonia and its inability to transfer BTU's at low ambient temps, but what's the alternative? I had lost about $600 worth of groceries in less than 2 weeks at one point. I was going to call Sears because it is still in warranty, but then I figured I was only prolonging my pain and suffering. I want to be able to dry camp for extended periods and while I'm used to running my genset 24/7 while on the road I just want to be more efficiently self sustaining. In this thread there is a guy who is getting 38 degrees at a number 2 setting in his Dometic. I wonder what kind of ambient temps he's running it in? I'll ask.

I'm interviewing a nearby service shop in the morning to get a price on installation and some other electrical work. I'm currently in the Seattle area on my way to Olympic National Park and then down the Pacific coast into CA to visit Redwood, Sequoia and Yosemite. By that time I'm thinking I'll be looking for a place to roost in the desert southwest. I didn't realize it before, but there are people who winter in the deserts and have bi-weekly visits from a honey bucket trucks that also replenish fresh water and propane as needed. It seems to be a cottage industry that has sprung up out of necessity. My Dutch Star carries 100 gallons of fresh and I've got 60/40 gallons of grey and black, so I've got a good build spec for dry camping.

I met an older (late 70's) couple in Rapid City, SD who have been full-timing and boondocking winters for 16 years near the Mexican border and they have no intention whatsoever to settling down again told me boondocking is way more fun than being in a park with hookups. If the weather is nice enough I want to be able to open my windows and take in the night air knowing my genset is off and my house batteries are not being run down. Now that I've given it a lot of additional thought it just makes the most sense to me to go dual fuel. You know, Richard, I just want reliable refrigeration and I want it under ANY circumstances I might put myself into and what I've had to this point has not worked. The very last thing I want to worry about in the future is losing more food. Maybe 3 fuel is the best way to go. I've got new solar on my roof to maintain my house batteries, so 12v might be a good idea.

My refer is a Samsung 11 cu/ft with a Kenmore badge on it. If you want it or somebody else wants it I'm happy to give it to them. Just come and get it. It's less than a year old and as I recall I paid something like $850 for it delivered, plus the installation, of course. I must say, Doc, even if it was working perfectly I'd still want it gone. Boondocking is the operant thought here.

My Best,

John Dent

[chofujohn]

Originally Posted by clyon51

I also believe something is wrong with your present frig. I would certainly have it checked before making any decisions.

Definately a Dometic! My 14 yo Dometic keeps frig at 34 and freezer at zero, and that's on the '2' setting.

Hi,

I'm taking your personal testimonial as gospel and I'm going Dometic again on your word. But, if it doesn't work as well as yours I'll have to hunt you down like a dog. Where are you staying again? Seriously, though, when I give it more thought I realize that we normally only see threads when someone is having a negative experience. Things man-made can and do fail for any number of reasons, but given the handful of negative experiences we read about as compared to the huge numbers of these things that are in service all over the country, well, it gives me confidence. Not to mention it will be new and under a warranty of some kind.

Thank you for your input. It is valued.

Best,

John

[chofujohn]

Originally Posted by jspande

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your post, but it sounds like you're leaving the outside venting for the original absorption refer with a residential refer installation?

If so, I'd suggest you rethink that. A big advantage of compressor refers over absorption ones is they don't need (nor want) exposure to the outside (and it's wide variance of temps). Residential refers are not intended for outside use.

I think you should block off the outside vents (staple gun and Reflectix insulation work nice). Then make sure you have enough venting of the area back of the refer to the RV's interior. You're refer should much prefer running "inside" (at indoor temps).

Hi,

I did block off the outside vents with fiberglass bat I bought in West Yellowstone last week. I also bought a drop light and hung it in that back space to raise the ambient around the coils. Nada! No difference. I expect there is something wrong that could be fixed, but I'm still stuck with a single fuel refer that will not dry camp well. Overnight rise with the genset off was about 8 degrees. That's in 12 hours and it's simply not acceptable. So, any further discussion on how to best overcome my problem with this residential unit is really for naught. I'm just trying to figure out whether to go with a Norcold or a Dometic. The consensus seems to be Dometic is better. Both have had recalls.

Best,

John

["007"]

Interesting thread with all that has been happening with these RV refrigerators and now it seems a defunct res-fridge what could happen next.
I have my original Norcold that has given us no problems had the first recall done, and only one, and Norcold knows it because I get direct calls from them plus the recalls in mail.

We have had some good installations of residential refrigerators by members and the Amish conversions by others with very good results all are happy with their decisions.

John most residential refrigerators I have had vent out the bottom of fridge below the doors floor level.
When the compressor runs the fan draws air down over coils and out the front.
Is that how your fridge works? Should be getting enough air from roof vent for cooler air over its coils.

Did you try fridge before installation to see how well it would work?
If the original vent area behind the fridge is still open to roof you should have plenty of air for the coil cooling and fridge should function as if it were in your home.

Why they said to have 2" clearance around the fridge is interesting would seem the fridge may have different venting and not out bottom but maybe out sides in rear of fridge?

If you are moving back I would go with Norcold with Amish cooling unit, because unless the new Dometic's have added fans for cooling coils, that Norcold has, you may have to add them because of pass hot summer we had.

Biggest problem is getting the heat off the cooling coils and out roof vent so it can maintain good temperatures in box section.

Both these MFG's keep adding electronics to their new refrigerators that have only added something else to break down it seems from recent posts.

Just a basic Norcold I would get with just a ice maker and none of the added door gimmicks.

[clyon51]

Originally Posted by chofujohn

Hi,

I'm taking your personal testimonial as gospel and I'm going Dometic again on your word. But, if it doesn't work as well as yours I'll have to hunt you down like a dog. Where are you staying again? :whistling

John,

Heres the whole scoop. My coach was built and sold in '98 with a Dometic. Previous owners said they never had a problem with it. We have used it 2 years and also no problems. Coach had 44k and generator 1.1k, so it was used. Spent it's entire life in Fl.

All one has to do is read this forum for awhile to learn Dometics are much more reliable than Norcolds. My previous coach had a Norcold which caught fire in the driveway preparing for a trip. That's my experience and why I say Dometic.

Back to mine. After trading in FL 2.5 years ago, the Dometic worked great on setting '4', with '5' as a cushion. We spend winters in Fl and summers in Mi. So ambient temps range from 65 to 90 degrees.

So why do I have a good GAS/AB frig? All I can say is either I got a good one or, National RV did a perfect job on install, giving perfect venting. As 007 said, these refers need good ventilation to expel heat to work good.

Earlier this year I had to change out the roof frig vent. I had also been following a thread named "wiring 12v muffin fans".

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f54/wirin...ns-128166.html

So I decided to mount the 4 fan unit at the roof line sucking the hot air out. Installed an 85-100 degree thermoswitch (on at 100, off at 85). You can read my write up on this in that thread.

Since install, I have never had to go above '2'. I did try '3' one time and the freezer was something like -6 and the frig was like 27.

Norcold made a weak attempt by installing fans down in the unit blowing on the cooling unit. Just about uselss as it blows the hot air around instead of getting rid of it.

Then some idiot mfgs started putting frigs in slides with side vents

If you go with Dometic and it doesn't work out, I 'm up here in central Mi with ol' Bessy loaded.

John....

["007"]

Norcold made a weak attempt by installing fans down in the unit blowing on the cooling unit. Just about useless as it blows the hot air around instead of getting rid of it.

If it was Norcold I can understand why someone would have a problem with their Norcold cooling.
The two fans should draw cooler air from lower vent and blow out the roof vent or upper side vent in slide.
There should also be a baffle to deflect the hot air out of vent area, not collect on top of the refrigerator.

[chofujohn]

You Wrote: "If you go with Dometic and it doesn't work out, I 'm up here in central Mi with ol' Bessy loaded. "

Hi John,

I assume 'ole Bessy is the sexy next door widow you want to fix me up with.

Looks like PPL has about the best price on this kind of stuff. I'm going to buy the Dometic DM 2862, which is the identical unit that I trashed when I bought this Kenmore. I've got a shop to do the installation.

I've actually got another problem that is in need of a solution.

Of late and I'm meaning the last couple of weeks I've been hearing a popping sound coming from the GFI in the bathroom. It only happens when I go off generator or shore power and onto house batteries through the inverter. I've replaced the GFI, but the sound is still there when on batteries. In fact, I won't go on inverter now because I'm thinking it's a short due to a loose connection. A continuity check of that circuit should tell the story. Hopefully, it's not the inverter. I'm not positive, but I've got either a 2,500 watt or 3,000 watt inverter. I've heard they aren't cheap. This one did take a jolt from a lightning strike back in Florida this summer. That lightning took out my automatic transfer switch and I had to replace it. (Ain't full-timing fun?) I'm hoping a simple connection has worked its way loose and it will be an easy fix. We'll see. Have you ever heard this kind of sound or this happening to others?

Best,

JD