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Old 12-13-2010, 04:02 PM   #15
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I'm using a 30 - 50Amp pigtail with two Honda generators.

I bought a 30Amp + 30Amp to 50Amp box. It has two 30Amp male plugs that feed into a box that has one 50Amp female outlet. It is generally sold to connect to a shore power 30Amp and 20Amp, requiring a 30-20Amp adapter on one of the 30Amp plugs, which is included with the box. I bought this from Camping World – 50Amp RV Box Adapter (Product Number 25774)

I already had two Honda EU3000is generators, and a parallel cable from Honda. The parallel cable has two plug connections to each generator and a ground for each generator. The parallel cable allows you to draw the maximum wattage from all outlets on both generators. Theoretically, when these generators are running in parallel, the 30Amp outlet that has an output of 23Amps should put out a full 30Amps. Each of the generators therefore can output 30Amps, but not 30Amps simultaneously. The balanced load is still limited to a total of 5,600 watts or 46 Amps.

With the two Honda EU3000is generators running in parallel, I have one each of the 30Amp plugs on the 50Amp RV Box Adapter plugged into one generator and the other 30Amp plugs plugged into the second generator.

For safety, I bought a 50Amp RV voltage and surge protector. I plugged the 50Amp RV voltage and surge protector into the 50Amp outlet on the 50Amp RV Box Adapter. I got two green lights. Plugged in the 50Amp power cord to my Alpine 3500 and everything is running great. So far, I have not been able to overload the system, but I have not tried the AC yet. I’m in North Carolina and it’s 12 degrees F.

Everything is working like a charm…

Photos of this set-up are at:

http://www.greenlabenergy.com/Generator/DSC_0003.jpg

http://www.greenlabenergy.com/Generator/DSC_0004.jpg

http://www.greenlabenergy.com/Generator/DSC_0005.jpg

http://www.greenlabenergy.com/Generator/DSC_0007.jpg

http://www.greenlabenergy.com/Generator/DSC_0008.jpg
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:54 PM   #16
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How is it that the 240V service has two legs at 180 degrees phase shift when the power comes from a utility line where the L1 and L2 are 120 degrees out of phase?
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Old 12-14-2010, 09:50 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by davecampbell View Post
How is it that the 240V service has two legs at 180 degrees phase shift when the power comes from a utility line where the L1 and L2 are 120 degrees out of phase?
A typical 120/240v single phase service is usually supplied from one phase of a 3 phase high voltage connection. The ratio of the transformer is chosen so that the voltage supplied is 240V, again a single phase. That winding of the transformer is center tapped & the center tap grounded. The end result is 240 volts across the full transformer (L1 & L2) and 120v between the center tap (Neutral) and either hot.

Rather than call the two hot legs 180° out of phase, a more accurate description would be what code uses - split phase. Your really only have one phase & the center tap splits it. The current in the neutral is 180° out of phase but if you put a scope on the two hot legs you will find them in phase.
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Old 12-14-2010, 10:18 AM   #18
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Hay Posters;; Lets keep it simple; We have all talked to fellow RVers that knew some one who Friend his coachs Electrial system was fryed. And he did it By doing it just like the post he had read;; As any Electrican will tell you The school is a 4 year course; When people read a couple posts they think They understand it;; I say stay in the main stream;; When you start getting into 3 phase the legs do not have the same voltage, And it is ment to use all three togather , Use what is at the hookup ; If you need more tell the attendent and he will get you a site with a bit more power. Oh it will cost you more. That is the way this life works.. Life is good
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Old 12-14-2010, 11:39 AM   #19
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A typical 120/240v single phase service is usually supplied from one phase of a 3 phase high voltage connection. The ratio of the transformer is chosen so that the voltage supplied is 240V, again a single phase. That winding of the transformer is center tapped & the center tap grounded. The end result is 240 volts across the full transformer (L1 & L2) and 120v between the center tap (Neutral) and either hot.

Rather than call the two hot legs 180° out of phase, a more accurate description would be what code uses - split phase. Your really only have one phase & the center tap splits it. The current in the neutral is 180° out of phase but if you put a scope on the two hot legs you will find them in phase.
So the 180* phase is a matter of the extra transformer with opposing windings which just happen to be 180* out from each other. But why add an extra transformer? I assume the park wiring mains leg (L1-commercial utility power) feeds one side of the park and (L2) another?

Yes, a CT xfmr widig is *usually* 180 out, it just seems like a strange way to make power through the extra transformer losses (30% loss?) when 110/240 is mains provided at 120*.
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Old 12-14-2010, 12:21 PM   #20
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See HERE for a description/discussion of the 120/240 split phase distribution system.

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Old 12-14-2010, 12:52 PM   #21
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We are getting well off topic, but there is no such thing as a 110/240 main that has a phase angle of 120°.

AC Power in the US (and most of the rest of the world) is distributed as a 3 phase Delta, that is 3 legs tied end to end with no neutral and a phase angle of 120°. This is one of the most efficient methods of distribution power on the fewest number of wires. Look at the output of most large power plants & you will see high tension towers with groups of 3 wires (usually with an additional ground wire on top). Since the distribution is at a high voltage, a transformer is necessary to bring the voltage down to standard levels. Generally, there are a number of transformers between the power plant generator & the end user. Voltage is stepped up for distribution, down a bit for local distribution, then down to user levels at the transformers on poles or in transformer rooms in commercial sites. Transformers are quite efficient - typically over 95% and the gain from dropping the current by raising the voltage to lower resistance losses in the wiring more than makes up for the transformer losses.

In a factory or commercial building, 3 phase may well be used throughout the facility because it allows less expensive & more efficient motors. Typically, a 3 phase Delta is converted in a section of the building's the step down transformer to a 3 phase Wye to provide 120v. Since the "Y" has each leg out of phase by 120°s, and the center of the "Y" is grounded & used as a neutral, the difference between each hot is 208V rather than 240v. If the building only needs a small amount of 120V power, the transformer may be wired to produce a 120v/240v single phase service from one of the Delta windings.

Although a campground could be wired as a 3 phase Wye, I've never seen one, and it would be annoying to anyone that had 240v appliances in their RV since they would be operating at a reduced voltage. I had this problem with 240v clothes dryers installed in a commercial building - they took much longer to dry clothes running on 208V.

More typical is to take the main transformer feeding the campground (assuming it is a 3 phase Delta) and pull off three individual 240V windings, one on each phase, each center tapped. This provides three separate 1 phase feeds @ 120v/240v. These single phase feeds are distributed throughout the campground. In a large campground, there may be individual transformers scattered throughout the sites that are feed high voltage, either as a Delta or a single phase,; each transformer providing 120v/240v single phase to local sections of the campground.


A diagram that shows the difference between Deltas & Wyes is at Delta / Wye Diagrams
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