Water Filters

[RKins]

Originally Posted by nancybninja

We want to drive down the road with our fresh water tank open. We just realized when we drain the tank and walk around inside, more water drains out. I don’t want to pour new water into old and older, we drink that when dry camping.
Now I’m paranoid.

Does your Forest River have leveling jacks? If so, jack up the opposite side of the rig so that all the water will drain toward the drain pipe.
If you don't have levelers, try driving up on a curb and stopping for a few minutes to drain the last bit out.

[Cyanne]

Originally Posted by sajohnson

Hi Cyanne,

If by, "...the filter that attaches on the outside to my fresh water hose and the campsite water hookup" you mean the blue Camco filter -- see my comments above.

The Camco filters are not very effective, clog quickly, and are expensive (considering their lack of performance).

Have you attempted to contact PUR directly? My guess is that the existing filter has been replaced by a different part number. The Flow Pure FP10GKT is a good bet, but you may want to confirm with the mfr.

I would want to know the difference(s) between the two filters. In addition, you might request the performance data sheets so that you can see how effective the filter actually is. Does it remove/reduce all NSF 53 contaminants? None? Just 2 or 3?

~~~

[EDIT]: I see in your photo that the existing filter #FP10GT is only NSF 42 certified. That means it is essentially a "taste & odor" filter. Nothing wrong with that, but filters that meet both NSF 42 and 53 are readily available and do not cost much more. Are you sure the mfr is "PUR"? I'm wondering if another company did not intentionally use a misleading name. <Later> I did a Google search and found what appears to be the mfr -- it is NOT "PUR":
https://www.flowpur.com/html/rv_filters.html

I would be reluctant to do business with that company because they do not appear to be forthcoming with info about NSF ratings and performance specs. That, and the fact that they are cynically using the name Flow-Pur to confuse potential customers by implying that they have some connection with the "PUR" company.

Hopefully you can find something that is actually made by PUR or another reputable mfr that will be a direct replacement.

~~~

PUR makes good filters but if you intend to use it for drinking water you should confirm that any filter you are considering is both NSF 42 and 53 rated, and that it removes all (or most) of the contaminants listed in NSF 53.

Unfortunately, the NSF allows filter mfrs to claim "NSF 53" if the filter effectively removes/reduces even ONE (1) of the dozens of potential contaminants!

As a practical matter, almost all sources of potable water you are likely to come across are safe to drink, but a quality water filter is cheap insurance. If nothing else it will make the water taste better.

The above comments relate to your under-sink (or a faucet mount) filter.

You asked about the filter that attaches to your hose. See my post above (the one you quoted) for an inexpensive and effective alternative to the blue Camco sediment filters -- a standard 10" clear filter housing with a quality sediment filter.

Thank you for your help I will do my research based on the information you have provided; and yes I was talking about the Camco filter that goes outside. I bought just 1 to see how it works. I keep bottle water on the rig but just kinda wanted the water filtered for showering, brushing teeth etc.,

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by Cyanne

Thank you for your help I will do my research based on the information you have provided; and yes I was talking about the Camco filter that goes outside. I bought just 1 to see how it works. I keep bottle water on the rig but just kinda wanted the water filtered for showering, brushing teeth etc.,

Even if you only use the water for brushing your teeth, it should be filtered with a filter that reduces/eliminates all of the potential contaminants listed in NSF 53. The Camco filter does not do that -- not even close. It is not even a good sediment filter.

Is an NSF 53 filter absolutely necessary? Probably not. Almost all public water supplies in the US are perfectly safe. A NSF 42 "taste & odor" filter is often adequate.

If you happen to get well water, that is also likely fine, but there is a greater chance that it will have some contaminants. In that case an NSF 53 filter is good insurance.

My wife and I get water from a variety of sources -- businesses; parks; and private residences. Sometimes that water comes from wells. Parks typically have some form of water treatment but most well water is not treated.

Here at home we run all of our well water through a sediment filter:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Only our drinking/cooking water is filtered through the $22 pair of undersink Pentek filters:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Many other places on well water are probably similar. Some may not even have sediment filtration. That means you are likely getting some particles of dirt/sand in the water. Even "city water" often has some particles in it.

At 100 microns, the Camco filter is laughably inefficient. Even if a person is only concerned about sediment (not any potential health-related contaminants) a better sediment filter really is a necessity to avoid harm to plumbing fixtures. The standard 10" filter housing we use is maybe $30-35 at any big box store (or online) and ours even included a filter. All we needed to hook it up was a washing machine hose (NSF rated for drinking water), and a couple brass adapters to convert the standard 3/4" female pipe thread on the filter canister to male garden/washing machine hose thread. It can even be assembled without tools if it is only being used to filter water when filling the tank -- because there is very little pressure in that case.

Many people carry bottled water, you're not alone there. My thinking (which I do not expect everyone to agree with) is that it is much easier and cheaper to simply filter the water in the fresh tank for drinking, brushing teeth, and cooking. Bottled water is expensive, heavy, takes up space, not as convenient as turning on a tap, and in rural areas it is not always available (or the stores may only have expensive single bottles. Not to mention all of the bottles that must be recycled or thrown away.

I am not under any delusion that I will change too many minds on this, but that is my reasoning for using filters.

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by rollondown

Use this as a resource or buy from them. We have several of their products, but several items I can buy cheaper in Lowes and assemble myself.
But this shows you options and how to.....
https://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/mm5/

People seem happy with the RV Water Filter Store. I've read several positive comments about them over the years.

As rollondown said, it is usually less expensive to buy the items at a big box store and assemble them yourself (as was the case with the sediment filter assembly I describe above). Of course, there is something to be said for convenience.

I see they sell a Pentek filter -- #CFB-PB10 -- that is their "best selling cartridge":

https://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/A1209.htm

We use Pentek filters here at home.

The CFB-PB10 looks like a decent filter, however, from what I can see it only has a NSF 42 rating. The claims regarding cyst and lead & mercury reduction; as well as the 0.5 nominal micron rating are "based on mfr's internal testing". Pentek has a good rep, and I have no reason to doubt their claims, but for obvious reasons it is better if testing is done by the NSF or another independent lab.

Also, even assuming Pentek's claims are true, they are only claiming cyst and lead & mercury reduction. There are dozens of potential contaminants listed in NSF 53. At a minimum, a second filter would be required to cover them all.

The 'pressure drop vs flow rate' chart on the page linked above demonstrates why filters like this should not be used at the "city water" inlet. They are designed for a flow rate of ~0.5 gpm. That is perfectly adequate for a small filtered water tap, but filling a 30 gallon fresh water tank would take about an hour!

I see that on that same page the Filter Store claims a "3-4 GPM" flow rate. Not only does that contradict Pentek's claims, but carbon filters require a reasonable amount of 'contact time' to work properly. IOW, even if the user had sufficient water pressure to force water through the filter at 4 gpm, it would likely not perform as claimed.

Even Camco admits as much with their blue in-line hose filter. The last Camco packaging I saw made claims of reducing various potential contaminants, but specified the the flow rate had to be less than 0.5 gpm, otherwise those claims were void. Of course the end user has no way to accurately determine flow rate, but at least Camco does/did indicate (in small font) that performance was very dependent on flow rate.

The 3-4 gpm claim made by the RV Water Filter Store is very discouraging. It seems to be pure marketing -- an attempt to sell as many filters as possible without regard to proper function. I imagine a good attorney could have a field day with that. At a minimum it is negligent.

Personally, I'll stick to buying supplies at Lowe's; HD; and/or Menard's.

As rollondown said, we can of course "Use this [Filter Store] as a resource...".

[Cyanne]

Originally Posted by nancybninja

Our MH came with a under sink filter I change every 3 months but it’s not the best you can buy. I’m upgrading next change.

What did you change to for your under the sink filter?

[Cyanne]

Originally Posted by Forkyfork

I am removing my leaking everpure filter system and replacing it with a .03 micron cyst removing filter. I only filter drinking water to a spout in the kitchen. I use the blue camco filter for the rest of the water, mainly to trap the sediment. It has poor taste and odor reduction for drinking water.

I got my filter on discountfilters.com The filter I ordered is made in the USA and NSF certified. I had to get the filter info off the manufacturer website. I have the K5515-JJ.
K Spec - Omnipure Filter Company
They have the filters other places but the best price was discount filter. It’s a challenge finding reasonably priced made in USA filters.

https://www.discountfilterstore.com/...er-filter.html

You say that you use a filter under the sink galley to filter water from your drinking spout. I also have a spout for drinking water and was/am going to do the same thing. Do you find that using the filter for drinking water and the camco filter used outside the RV to filter sediment satisfactory?
I am not in a position at this moment to install a new filtration system under the sink galley and some have said camco is not I guess you would say up to standard for filtering.
Is there a different filtration system that can be used outside the RV that will filter water for the entire RV?

[BobinChina03]

This one looks interesting...


https://www.amazon.com/Clear2o-CRV20...r+filter&psc=1


States that its good to one micron. $34.99 at Amazon.

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by BobinChina03

This one looks interesting...


https://www.amazon.com/Clear2o-CRV20...r+filter&psc=1


States that its good to one micron. $34.99 at Amazon.

From my post above. I was writing about the RV Filter Store Pentek filter, but what I said applies here:

~~~

"...filters like this should not be used at the "city water" inlet. They are designed for a flow rate of ~0.5 gpm. That is perfectly adequate for a small filtered water tap, but filling a 30 gallon fresh water tank would take about an hour!

"...carbon filters require a reasonable amount of 'contact time' to work properly. IOW, even if the user had sufficient water pressure to force water through the filter at a typical garden hose flow rate of say 5 gpm, it would likely not perform as claimed.

Even Camco admits as much with their blue in-line hose filter (likely the "competion" filter referred to on the linked Amazon page). The last Camco packaging I saw made claims of reducing various potential contaminants (similar to the Clear2o CRV2001 RV and Marine Inline Water Filter) but specified the the flow rate had to be less than 0.5 gpm, otherwise those claims were void. Of course the end user has no way to accurately determine flow rate, but at least Camco does/did indicate (in small font) that performance was very dependent on flow rate.

~~~

Another concern is that the Clear2o CRV2001 has no NSF ratings whatsoever. Only claims from the mfr.

A better option -- that costs about the same -- is to purchase a standard filter housing like this (plus 2 each 3/4" female pipe thread > male garden hose adapters, and a NSF drinking water rated washing machine hose):

https://www.amazon.com/Pentek-PENTEK...ATQ/ref=sr_1_7

Then use a high-flow sediment filter like one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...diment+filter+

Here are some 1 micron filters:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...ilter+1+micron

These are the ones we use -- they are about $5 each:

https://www.amazon.com/Tier1-Replace...ef=sr_1_2_sspa

That will take care of any sediment and have the advantage of inexpensive filter cartridge replacements as well as a clear housing to keep an eye on the water, the filter, and what has been trapped.

Then, for drinking water, use an NSF 53 rated filter -- either under-sink or a PUR faucet mount filter. The PUR filters are only $7-8 and are highly rated. One filter typically lasts for an entire season.

Generally speaking, the filters and other products marketed to RVers are poor quality and/or a poor value.

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by Cyanne

You say that you use a filter under the sink galley to filter water from your drinking spout. I also have a spout for drinking water and was/am going to do the same thing. Do you find that using the filter for drinking water and the camco filter used outside the RV to filter sediment satisfactory?
I am not in a position at this moment to install a new filtration system under the sink galley and some have said camco is not I guess you would say up to standard for filtering.
Is there a different filtration system that can be used outside the RV that will filter water for the entire RV?

For outside the RV:

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, Camco's own specs only claim a 100 micron reduction. That is ridiculously poor performance. Most sediment filters are rated at 1 or 5 microns (nominal).

The system I mention in my post above is very inexpensive -- maybe the cost of 3 Camco filters. It is very easy to assemble. Again, tools aren't even required if you only use the filter to fill the fresh tank. Just assemble by hand. If the RV will be left connected to "city water", then it is a good idea to use Teflon tape and a wrench to make the fittings completely water-tight, since they will be under pressure.

There is no need to install a new under-sink system. If your faucet will accept the PUR adapters then the PUR unit is a good, inexpensive choice.

If not, then you need to determine what size & type fittings your under-sink filter cartridges use so you can see what your options are.

One final thought -- if you go with PUR, or some other NSF 53 rated faucet mount system, you will need to either turn off the supply to the existing under-sink filter, or bypass it. If neither option is possible, then install an old under-sink filter (even though the system will not be used).

[Cyanne]

Originally Posted by BobinChina03

This one looks interesting...


https://www.amazon.com/Clear2o-CRV20...r+filter&psc=1


States that its good to one micron. $34.99 at Amazon.

I was looking at this. Is this for outside the RV?

[TonyMac]

My blue Camco filter lasts a year of slight to moderate use. It has never clogged, I replace it annually. Now, how well it filters? Maybe I've never had bad water, but the water looks and tastes good and I have good water flow and pressure in the sinks and shower. I also have that Flow-Pur filter under my sink that gets the Camco filtered water and feeds it to the drinking water tap at the sink. Cheap and easy, that's the kind I dig.

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by Cyanne

I was looking at this. Is this for outside the RV?

See my post #22 above.

This filter is for outside the RV but it has several drawbacks compared to using a standard, clear, 10" filter housing with a 1 micron sediment filter rated at 5 gpm (gallons per minute), along with a separate (under-sink or faucet mount) high performance NSF 53 filter.

The housing, filter, and 3/4" to garden hose adapters we use cost about the same as one of these $35 disposable filters.

As tempting as it is to use more advanced filtration at the city water/tank fill inlet, the fact is that in order for any good NSF 53 (53 covers health related contaminants) filter to work, there must be enough contact time. For this reason, the better filters are typically rated at no more than 0.5 gpm.

0.5 gpm is nowhere near enough for a shower, and would be agonizingly slow for a faucet.

It could theoretically work for those who always use their on board water pump, but filling a 30 gallon fresh tank would take about an hour.

With enough pressure, the user can probably force more water through them, but they will not work as designed/claimed at higher flow rates.

Therefore, the best option is to use a decent sediment filter on the water supply and then use a good, comprehensive NSF 53 filter for drinking water.

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by TonyMac

My blue Camco filter lasts a year of slight to moderate use. It has never clogged, I replace it annually. Now, how well it filters? Maybe I've never had bad water, but the water looks and tastes good and I have good water flow and pressure in the sinks and shower. I also have that Flow-Pur filter under my sink that gets the Camco filtered water and feeds it to the drinking water tap at the sink. Cheap and easy, that's the kind I dig.

I've said this in my posts above, but it's worth repeating -- most of us will never need any filtration whatsoever.

Water filtration was almost unheard of decades ago. I recall camping with my father and we just drank directly out of mountain streams. Smart? No, but at the time that was routine practice and, FWIW, we never got sick.

RV's were not equipped with under-sink drinking water filters. Owners did not use in-line filters like the popular blue Camco filter. Yet they all survived.

I only mention that by way way of saying that I'm not a fanatic about water filters. In fact, most people can get by with just a sediment filter to protect their pump and plumbing fixtures.

RVers that might want to consider additional filtration are those that may use well water of unknown quality. Actually, my thinking is that ALL well water is potentially contaminated. Even if it was run through expensive comprehensive testing last week, there could have been some sort of industrial or agricultural spill a few miles away that introduced contaminants into the aquifer. There's just no way to know.

So, I'm not suggesting that everyone install a state-of-the-art filtration system, but if one is going to go to the trouble and expense, they might as well get the most bang for their buck. Good, effective filtration does not cost much (if any) more than questionable filtration.

You asked how well the Camco filters. Very poorly. Per Camco's own specs it is rated at 100 microns. Most sediment filters are rated 1 or 5 microns. There are larger micron ratings available, but 50 micron is the largest I've seen, and 20 is about the largest normally used in residential applications.

We are typically on the road about 3 months out of the year and our 1 micron filter shows no sign of clogging or becoming restrictive. An added benefit is that the filters only cost about $5 each. Also, the housing is clear, so we can see the condition of the filter and the water.

Another plus is that having the filter housing makes adding bleach to the fresh tank very easy -- just pour it into the housing.

Needless to say, water that looks good and tastes good can still be harmful. Again, it is generally not a concern with public water supplies, but may be with well water.

When the Camco is new, and as long as it remains unobstructed the flow rate with be very good because the micron rating is so large.

See my post above about Flow-Pur. They seem to be attempting to ride on PUR's coattails by incorporating "Pur" into their filter name. Also, I noticed that their claims are all based on "in-house" testing, not independent testing from NSF or another certified lab. There are filters that have NSF 53 certification for the same money or less.

[TonyMac]

sajohnson,
Thanks for your time and careful explaination. You got me thinking. Where can I find filters like those you recommend?